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ponyparty

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I'll try to keep this as short as possible... Hired a dog walker/trainer to get F's confidence up around other dogs after many negative experiences. Seemed really good, ex police dog handler, all the relevant qualifications etc. Had a very lengthy assessment with me and F, went through all his behaviours etc, I said we don't play ball etc with him as he loses his mind completely (this is relevant).

He then had F on 3 occasions:

Week 1: Collected F (who was very nervous of him still). F accidentally jumped into open driver's door of the van, instead of the dog compartment, and cocked a leg on the drivers seat (mortifying!), the guy grabbed him round the tummy to try and lift him out which F objected to quite strongly - he was frightened and went to bite him, just grazing his knuckles with his teeth. He still took him out for a few hours and they made friends, and the guy was keen to come back again. I was shocked that he'd tried to pick F up, knowing exactly how nervous he was - there's little more dangerous than a frightened dog - but thought, ok, he just panicked as his van was getting peed on, and obviously I felt mortified about both the pee and the bite and was very apologetic. This is not really relevant to what then happened, I'm just painting the picture that it didn't get off to the best start...

Week 2: F came back with both carpal pads skinned. Managed to get them to heal over at home with combination of buster collar and bathing in cooled boiled salt water. Asked trainer what he'd been doing, he mentioned ball play and I said well we don't do it with him as he loses his mind and doesn't have any self preservation (again).

Week 3: F came back with his left carpal pad skinned, and very badly this time. I was SO ILL at the time, didn't raise it immediately with trainer, I was literally just trying to get through each day with a horrible flu thing and a poorly toddler. Buster collar back on, bathing it with salt water etc. At the weekend he managed to get the collar off and was unattended for a few hours and licked it absolutely raw, it looked even worse than when he first did it so I ended up dressing it with Manuka honey. On Sunday night there was heat in the leg and no improvement by Monday morning so off we went to the vets, course of antibiotics, pain relief and hibiscrub. Took a further week to heal over enough to remove the collar, he couldn't use the dog flap and had us up every night to go out, all in all a bit of a disaster.

Trainer said, when I messaged, that he'd done it through ball play again. Decided probably best F didn't go back to this trainer - on reflection, not really paying him to play ball with my dog, he was just meant to be getting his confidence up around other dogs. Feeling quite irritated by this point. I've got a sick child, a cold/flu thing myself which turned into sinusitis, I'm super busy at work, got my mother and her two dogs living here, ongoing issues with my gran who has dementia.... this was meant to be reducing my stress levels, not increasing it!

Trainer brings me invoice today, delivered by hand, took me completely off guard as I'm working. Whilst sat here at my desk, I realise I'm still really quite irritated. I have half a mind to just send him partial payment - less the value of my vet bill, and forward the bill and vet report on to him. What would you do? Pay it or contest it? I get the impression that he will probably tell me where to go and demand his money in full, but I feel I may as well try - the whole experience has really peed me off!
 

CorvusCorax

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I'd certainly not be paying the amount you spent at the vets. Really shoddy service.

PSA for anyone else reading: some ex police trainers are great. Some I wouldn't trust with a hamster. Some of it has applications but a lot of it doesn't.
No one in the real world turns around a dog from no training to street-ready in the same amount of time as they sometimes have to.

Qualifications mean someone has done a course. Not that they have any affinity with dogs.
 

ponyparty

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Yes, he did seem to talk the talk as well on our first meeting/assessment though. Should have trusted F's initial assessment ;) he's usually right!

Yep think I will deduct the vet bill from the total he wants. Just need to write a well worded, assertive message to accompany it.
 

meleeka

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Surely he’s got insurance to cover him for a dog getting injured and he’s liable?

I’d pay the bill promptly, less your vets bill and say that he was responsible for the injury and although you understand that these things happen, you would have expected him to have stopped playing ball after the first injury.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I would do as the others say and pay the invoice less the amount the vet charged. I would enclose the vet's bill with payment and a brief note reminding him that you let him know prior to handing your dog over the 1st time that F is not suitable for playing ball, that F injured his paws playing ball and you reminded trainer again, so you were very disappointed to find that F had been injured again and that this time has needed vet intervention. This is the reason that you will not require trainer's services in future and also the reason that you have deducted vet bill from his invoice. If he wants to take you to small claims court over it, he will have to explain why he let the dog get injured in his charge.
 
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SAujla

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Surely you shouldn't be paying him the full amount, you said numerous times not to play fetch but he still did. Your dog got hurt which cost you money which you wouldn't have had to pay if he listened. I'm surprised he told you the truth but you should at least try and reduce payment. It doesn't sound like you would use him again so might as well give it a go.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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I would do as the others say and pay the invoice less the amount the vet charged. I would enclose the vet's bill with payment and a brief note reminding him that you let him know prior to handing your dog over the 1st time that F is not suitable for playing ball, that F injured his paws playing ball and you reminded trainer again, so you were very disappointed to find that F had been injured again and that this time has needed vet intervention. This is the reason that you will not require trainer's services in future and also the reason that you have deducted vet bill from his invoice. If he wants to take you to small claims court over it, he will have to explain why he let the dog get injured in his charge.

^^^ This is what I'd do too.

I frankly am shocked at such blatant negligence.

PLEASE do not let your dog go to this person again; I think your dog has been "telling" you (i.e. urinating on the seat etc which is a very clear stress sign) that they are not happy to be with this guy. I don't give a tuppenny-turd about how many "qualifications" the bloke has got; if your dog doesn't like him then don't send him to the jerk again! End of.

Absolutely appalling.
 

ponyparty

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Just to be clear, I was never going to let F go to this trainer again anyway. I sacked him after the second time F got injured - not immediately, but once I was better enough to think straight and string together a sentence! Clearly thought he knew my dog better than I do ? I’ve only just received the invoice today though; I thought after I told him I’d had to take F to the vets he might not invoice; don’t know why I thought that ? wishful thinking..!

Anyway you’ve all reassured me that I’m doing the right thing and I’m drafting a firm but fair email to him explaining why I will only be paying part of his invoice ?
 

TPO

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Just to be clear, I was never going to let F go to this trainer again anyway. I sacked him after the second time F got injured - not immediately, but once I was better enough to think straight and string together a sentence! Clearly thought he knew my dog better than I do ? I’ve only just received the invoice today though; I thought after I told him I’d had to take F to the vets he might not invoice; don’t know why I thought that ? wishful thinking..!

Anyway you’ve all reassured me that I’m doing the right thing and I’m drafting a firm but fair email to him explaining why I will only be paying part of his invoice ?

He can claim the difference from his insurance ?
 

SusieT

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I'd have a frank conversation saying that you asked him not to ball play and you have now incurred vets bills for his unauthorised actions with your dog and you will be asking him to cover your vets bills. Assumeably his insurance will cover the vet bills as they happened in his care and assuming you were clear no ball play.

As to whether to pay or not, that depends what you signed up for e..g did you pay him for dog walking or specifically for socialisation
 

ponyparty

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He was charging £47.50 per day... insanely expensive but hey, if it had worked and F felt more confident around other dogs I’d have happily paid it. We’ve had so many negative experiences now, I just want him to be back to his old, playful, confident self. Trainer’s remit was specifically around getting his confidence up around other dogs, not ball play.

I’ve decided to take matters into my own hands and joined some local dog walking groups, we have our first group walk on Saturday. Really hope it helps.

I sent the email, and the payment less my vet bill (which was just shy of £100), last night. Haven’t heard back from him as yet, so we shall see! He won’t be getting a penny more from me though. I am sick of people thinking they know my animals better than I do.
 

meleeka

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I can see where ball play can be useful
In helping a dog to relax around other dogs, but NOT if you specifically said not to for the reasons you stated.

Fingers crossed that’s the end of the matter. Enjoy your walk and don’t expect too much for your first time.
 

AmyMay

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Yes, I plan to take it very steady on the walk. I've let the organiser know he can be nervous, I'll keep my distance until he relaxes. Fingers crossed it's a positive experience and we can start to build on that on each walk we do! :)

Such a shame you’re not near me, my little Daisy would be a perfect walking companion x
 

ponyparty

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He's replied to my email accepting the deduction from his invoice. Apparently I signed a contract saying that he wouldn't be responsible for any vet bills incurred whilst in his care, but stupidly I didn't keep a copy of it myself so I can't check this (he only gave me one copy and I clean forgot about taking photos of it). But he's accepted the bill anyway. Very gracious of him (!) I was gearing up for battle haha so I'm very relieved!

Onwards and upwards :)
 
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