x-ray results..

What degree of rotation have the fronts??

And let me get this straight the barefoot trimmer said the pedal bone cannot rotate???:confused::confused::rolleyes:. :D

Shows what she knows, at least your onto of it now. In the future keep an eye out for any abscess round the coronet. These need to be dealt with asap.

They don't usually start appearing till many weeks down the line. Trying to help :)

If I remember he did have dips round coronet didn't he ?? again this is help not trying to scare this was my journey , the fact he hasn't sunk in front doesn't mean he wont. Good deep bed no movement and if possible pads in front to support the sole to reduce the chance of sinking. Try put two buckets water in one next to his hay one near the door I did this and still do . keep the doorway area level with bedding I put her slip rails across so she could not stand in the last 1/2 foot of the door as the shaving fell down the gap and made her stand in a toe down position putting strain on pedal bone. This way I could keep her shavings level.

What i was finding was when the door shut and pushed shavings back in fell down the two inch gap so I put rubber on the door to stop this and she already had her slip rails on to make he stand back as before she would be very sore if she had stood on the decline for any length of time.

Her bed here is not as thick as it was ( I am having a window put in for her and she moving next door but one while this done so going to spring clean her bed and put new clean one down 1ft - 1 1/2ft deep


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Leviathan said:
What degree of rotation have the fronts??

And let me get this straight the barefoot trimmer said the pedal bone cannot rotate???:confused::confused::rolleyes:. :D

Shows what she knows, at least your onto of it now. In the future keep an eye out for any abscess round the coronet. These need to be dealt with asap.

They don't usually start appearing till many weeks down the line. Trying to help :)

If I remember he did have dips round coronet didn't he ?? again this is help not trying to scare this was my journey , the fact he hasn't sunk in front doesn't mean he wont. Good deep bed no movement and if possible pads in front to support the sole to reduce the chance of sinking. Try put two buckets water in one next to his hay one near the door I did this and still do . keep the doorway area level with bedding I put her slip rails across so she could not stand in the last 1/2 foot of the door as the shaving fell down the gap and made her stand in a toe down position putting strain on pedal bone. This way I could keep her shavings level.

What i was finding was when the door shut and pushed shavings back in fell down the two inch gap so I put rubber on the door to stop this and she already had her slip rails on to make he stand back as before she would be very sore if she had stood on the decline for any length of time.

Her bed here is not as thick as it was ( I am having a window put in for her and she moving next door but one while this done so going to spring clean her bed and put new clean one down 1ft - 1 1/2ft deep


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vet didnt say what % the rotation was.. i'll find out next week when he comes....not sure whats going to happen untill him and the farrier come next week...he said the pads are old hat, and they have much better ways of dealing with it now... he said i could turn him out on a bare paddock over night or 1 hour every other day on grass, no riding...
 
tango'smum said:
vet didnt say what % the rotation was.. i'll find out next week when he comes....not sure whats going to happen untill him and the farrier come next week...he said the pads are old hat, and they have much better ways of dealing with it now... he said i could turn him out on a bare paddock over night or 1 hour every other day on grass, no riding...
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:eek::eek::eek:

Old hat huh??? well my mare was wearing them within the last 5 months and they saved her from sinking more.

Not only that but my Farrier is Billy Crothers world champion farrier 5 times and he recommended them at the time with my vet

Turned out??? I would never turn a lami with rotation and at the acute stage out.


Poor Josh was turned out owner found him with penetrated pedal bones He was PTS

I would not recommend turning him out.:( Recipe for disaster:(

sorry to sound harsh hun but I have 11 month journey under my belt and the Pads played a MASSIVE part in her journey. Guarantee without them she would not be here.
I would get second opinion

Give Billy a ring and leave a message and get his Expert opinion he does travel the country.

I will pm you his number please ring him I dont want Tango going downhill. Its just a phone call ;)

I was told he has pulled a lot of horses through Laminitis

he has done an AMAZING almost impossible to rectify job with her feet. Her feet are now stable no rotation or sinking and are improving by the day. The pedal reversal is 100% SOLEY due to Billy Crothers I can't him highly enough.
 
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Strange that a vet would recommend turn out on a horse with acute lami with rotation :/
My gelding was in 4 months and had to have xrays and be off bute again before we even considered turnout!
 
Seems to be a lot of conflicting advice here.

I've read the blog from Leviathan, frankly I would be very wary of following the advice from what has gone on here. It is obviously not working and has been going on far too long.

You need to decide what you are going to do and follow the system precisely. If you only follow half a system you only get half a result.
 
Pale Rider said:
Seems to be a lot of conflicting advice here.

I've read the blog from Leviathan, frankly I would be very wary of following the advice from what has gone on here. It is obviously not working and has been going on far too long.

You need to decide what you are going to do and follow the system precisely. If you only follow half a system you only get half a result.
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i am following the vet and remedial farrier... they know my boy...only they can tell me what to do... the steryoform pads are old hat.. the vets said there are new ways of dealing with this, i will find out what next week...
 
tango'smum said:
i am following the vet and remedial farrier... they know my boy...only they can tell me what to do... the steryoform pads are old hat.. the vets said there are new ways of dealing with this, i will find out what next week...
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I hope you have some success with your vet and farrier, laminitis is a horrible disease and very stressful both for the horse and owner. I will be interested to read what your vet advises. How come you will not know till next week?
 
Pale Rider said:
I hope you have some success with your vet and farrier, laminitis is a horrible disease and very stressful both for the horse and owner. I will be interested to read what your vet advises. How come you will not know till next week?
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hes got the week of. he came out to do the x-rays on his day off.. bless him..
pony's not lame or sore or hobbleing.. so no laminitis at the mo.. he was footy last week. i put it down to going barefoot, but wasnt happy so vet x-rayed.. hes on box rest at the moment, though vet did say i could turn him out in a small area for an hour..the trimmer i was useing let his heels get to long and his toes to long.. which hasnt helped the rotation..would the bad trimming of coursed this??
anyway vet and farrier want to come together so next week is the only chance they can do it...
 
What is his history? How long had he been trimmed by the trimmer and do you have pics of his hooves to show us the trimming job?
Did the trimmer say anything or write anything down at the last visit?
 
Would like to point out that being a world champion farrier speaks to how fast you can create and slap shoes on during a competition and bears no relevance to their expertise in managing laminitis. Especially when their work is evident and shocking on the internet.
 
Oberon said:
What is his history? How long had he been trimmed by the trimmer and do you have pics of his hooves to show us the trimming job?
Did the trimmer say anything or write anything down at the last visit?
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since december...
heres some pics..2 weeks ago..he went 6 weeks between trims..
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then 2 weeks ago after trim.

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had laminitis 6-7 yrs ago..
then 3-4 times since october.. diognosed cushings october on prascend.. levels good...
 
tango'smum said:
hes got the week of. he came out to do the x-rays on his day off.. bless him..
pony's not lame or sore or hobbleing.. so no laminitis at the mo.. he was footy last week. i put it down to going barefoot, but wasnt happy so vet x-rayed.. hes on box rest at the moment, though vet did say i could turn him out in a small area for an hour..the trimmer i was useing let his heels get to long and his toes to long.. which hasnt helped the rotation..would the bad trimming of coursed this??
anyway vet and farrier want to come together so next week is the only chance they can do it...
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Not a good situation however it was caused. It really is unusual for a barefoot trimmer to make that sort of mistake, you have been very unlucky there. when the toes are left too long you can get what they call a mechanical separation of the laminae, which may in turn cause some rotation. The main thing now is to get things back on track, personally I'd be feeding soaked hay or haylage and no cereals at all. In one of my posts I mentioned exsercise, which is a mistake, the word I should have used was movement. Exercise has a different connertation in equine circles, and this was rightly picked up.
 
Pale Rider said:
Not a good situation however it was caused. It really is unusual for a barefoot trimmer to make that sort of mistake, you have been very unlucky there. when the toes are left too long you can get what they call a mechanical separation of the laminae, which may in turn cause some rotation. The main thing now is to get things back on track, personally I'd be feeding soaked hay or haylage and no cereals at all. In one of my posts I mentioned exsercise, which is a mistake, the word I should have used was movement. Exercise has a different connertation in equine circles, and this was rightly picked up.
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while hes in hes getting fast fibre twice a day, with vits mins mag ox. salt.. 3 kg soaked haylage twice a day..
yes vet said gentle movement...
 
Pale Rider said:
Seems to be a lot of conflicting advice here.

I've read the blog from Leviathan, frankly I would be very wary of following the advice from what has gone on here. It is obviously not working and has been going on far too long.

You need to decide what you are going to do and follow the system precisely. If you only follow half a system you only get half a result.
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excuse me??? not following advice from some 1 who has been through 11 months of recovery tried and tested manythings then share these with another member?????:rolleyes:

This is coming from someone who thinks its ok to turn the pony who has unstable feet into a paddock??

You can't go around telling another member that what I have said to help and experienced is not worthy!!! When what I have shared with the member has worked.

It is working so don't go saying it isn't thank you. if it isn't working why has there been pedal reversal good horn growth etc etc.

I have one of the best farriers on our case and a brilliant vet. Who both are happy with the progress.

Scuse me if |I don't take the opinion of a barefoot trimmer rather than one of the best farriers in the world.

What is that supposed to mean???

and has been going on far too long.
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i

s there a time limit on recovery ?? pray enlighten all of us!:confused:
 
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Oberon said:
Would like to point out that being a world champion farrier speaks to how fast you can create and slap shoes on during a competition and bears no relevance to their expertise in managing laminitis. Especially when their work is evident and shocking on the internet.
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I am sure Billy Crothers will be very please to have you slandering his name like this and his work.

He deals with laminitis all the time in this country and others.

I will print this out and give it to him.

I have seen and spoken to first hand of others who pedal bones almost penetrated the sole and are now back in full work. And my mare who has pedal bone reversal down to his work.
 
Oberon said:
Would like to point out that being a world champion farrier speaks to how fast you can create and slap shoes on during a competition and bears no relevance to their expertise in managing laminitis. Especially when their work is evident and shocking on the internet.
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And this is coming from a nobody in my eyes:rolleyes: A name on a forum.

You have no clue as to the achievements he has made to thousands of horses with laminitis.

Most vets know him and use him for laminitis cases 4 vets in this area alone he goes too their clients.

Do they know you ??? nope ! :rolleyes:
 
I have seen examples of his work.
Nuff said really.
You are quite welcome to print out anything to show him. That doesn't intimidate me.
Prevention of laminitis through appropriate diet and hoof care in the first instance is infinitely better than heroic measures afterwards.
 
Firstly may I say that the remarks which follow bare no relation what so ever to the treatment being prescribed to Tango's mum or the situation with this particular horse.
Everything which follows refers directly to Leviathan as this person has put the events surrounding their horse in the public arena, and has freely given advice which I believe to be fundimentally flawed and been hyper critical of others offering opinion and advice.
I refer to the blog that Leviathon has up until today allowed public access, I note that it is now password protected, probably as I refered to it in an earlier post.
In their blog, Leviathon refers to their horse being lethargic and not forward going as usual. They assume that the horse needs extra hard feed and so up the ration. This is the first error in a catalogue of disaster which has been going on for over a year. Increasing the hard feed in a horse which is showing the first signs of laminitis will exacerbate the process.
The horse is then stabled and treated for suspected abscess.
Blood tests are carried out for Cushings and EMS neg results.
The stable door is left open and the horse breaks into the feed store gorges on barley then takes itself off fror a graze. Fairly incompetant leaving so many gates and doors open, some might say.
In amongst all this a farrier is engaged who puts shoes on and takes them off over a period of time and also uses pads. Shoeing a horse suffering from laminitis is in my view causing pain in an unnecessary procedure.
Throughout this the horse is being given large amounts of bute, and still is. Whilst I agree with giving NSAID drugs initially, prolonged administration will interfere with the prodction of certain enzymes required for the regeneration of the laminae. In addition prolonged administration will cause intestinal problems and kidney damage, as well as masking the real level of lameness in the horse allowing excessive movement. Although movement is necessary to stimulate and encourage regeneration, the level of movement cannot be assesed properly whilst high levels of bute are being used.
A further drug is then administered Founder Stop or something, which induces colic, a known and expected side effect of the drug according Leviathon. Fool hardy in the extreme to 'induce' colic in a lamanitic horse. Colic and laminitis being the two main killers of horses.
I noted in the blog that things had been progressing for some months before the hay was soaked.
To date Leviathon claims that pedal bone reversal has taken place to some degree. I would suggest this is in spite of the treatment rather than the result of it. We are now a year into this and the horse would have had time to grow new feet completely, yet it is still on box rest, consuming large amounts of bute and still lame.
The treatment of this horse has been poor, riddled with backward thinking and unsuccessful, yet thought of by Leviathon as some sort of triumph.
I for one will not be taking any advice from this person, and I am not alone.
I did want to paste a copy of the blog I refer to but as of today it has been restricted.
 
Oberon said:
I have seen examples of his work.
Nuff said really.
You are quite welcome to print out anything to show him. That doesn't intimidate me.
Prevention of laminitis through appropriate diet and hoof care in the first instance is infinitely better than heroic measures afterwards.
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i put the pics on for you to comment on...:)
 
Oberon said:
Would like to point out that being a world champion farrier speaks to how fast you can create and slap shoes on during a competition and bears no relevance to their expertise in managing laminitis. Especially when their work is evident and shocking on the internet.
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I have seen many horses feet after the recovery from laminitis which he was soely responsible for the recovery . He has saved more horses from PTS . And since your name is nothing no one knows your work , but his work is mentioe4nd all over the country so many vet practices use him and he goes to their hospitals so he can work on the remedial shoeing.

And since you obviously just googled his name on you tube and saw one of the champion ships for speed. You base your entire argument on that:rolleyes:

Round this area he works for many practices on their horses most vets know of him.

So excuse me if I put your AP comment on the back burner.
 
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