X-rays on a 3yo vetting? Thoughts

Hormonal Filly

Hormonal Filly

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Hi all, I'm waiting for some more photos and videos of a 3yo ID (with some TB in) mare I've found for sale in Ireland, for sale from the breeder. I really like the look of her and if all looks good, will pay a deposit and arrange a vetting.

I will be buying unseen and have found a vet which has a good reputation looking at previous comments. I'm not sure she can have a 5 stage because she isn't able to be lunged or ridden and not sure if flexions will be possible.

But a 5 stage with full x-rays (adding on neck which is extra) will be approx. £700 and the filly is £2,700 (converted from euros) so not a great deal of money. Transport to UK will be another £500.

To add context, I bought a 3yo CobxTB mare from Ireland in 2021, passed a 5 stage vetting but diagnosed with OCD in her hock and changes to her neck before 5 - which is why I am considering x-rays as it’s more the heart throb if something was there and is missed.

I'm just not sure if is too OTT as aware it doesn't guarantee anything? Thoughts?
 
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Six months ago I would have said definitely not, however I’m in a similar position and will now X-ray certain areas going forward (more for my peace of mind).

I bought a recently backed 4yo from a reputable dealer. Passed a five stage vetting, but had significant arthritis in both small hock joints, no cartilage left, and more changes in the larger hock joints. Even my vet told me I was just very unlucky and do not need to X-ray, however I’m going to have to x-ray the hocks at a minimum (irrelevant of the horse purchase price) as I can’t go through all this again.
 
Comet1 said:
Six months ago I would have said definitely not, however I’m in a similar position and will now X-ray certain areas going forward (more for my peace of mind).

I bought a recently backed 4yo from a reputable dealer. Passed a five stage vetting, but had significant arthritis in both small hock joints, no cartilage left, and more changes in the larger hock joints. Even my vet told me I was just very unlucky and do not need to X-ray, however I’m going to have to x-ray the hocks at a minimum (irrelevant of the horse purchase price) as I can’t go through all this again.
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Really sorry to read this. Is there anything that can be done to help this poor young horse?
 
onemoretime said:
Really sorry to read this. Is there anything that can be done to help this poor young horse?
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Sadly not. His joints were too far deteriorated to be medicated even to get him hacking, and he was put to sleep. He’d barely done any work (just over four months, with some regular breaks). Completely heartbreaking position to be in.
 
My 5 year old has just been diagnosed with juvenile hock arthritis🥲 I’ve had her since she was 2 and she passed a 2 stage vetting. She was lightly backed last Spring as a 4 year old. It’s heartbreaking and I know if I was to buy another horse, I would get hock x rays done.
 
Ali27 said:
My 5 year old has just been diagnosed with juvenile hock arthritis🥲 I’ve had her since she was 2 and she passed a 2 stage vetting. She was lightly backed last Spring as a 4 year old. It’s heartbreaking and I know if I was to buy another horse, I would get hock x rays done.
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Sorry to hear this :(

My friends mare is 6 and diagnosed with the same but it wasn’t picked up on x-rays which showed clear, only seen when they MRI scanned.
 
Dex has just had surgery for an OCD chip in a stifle, just one of those things and thankfully prognosis good but I would also xray hocks and stifles in a youngster going forward - I would exercise some realism re: the findings, much like humans no animals will be completely squeaky clean but to look for those heritable conditions typical in big young animals. Thankfully otherwise all fetlocks, hocks, other stifle and full spine are completely clean, but I would have negotiatied less money paid for him to account for the surgery needed.
 
A friend bought a wc x tb who had to be retired age 5 just a few months after purchase because of hock arthritis, PSD and SI issues, he passed a 5 stage.

I chose to have the whole of the spine xray'd on potential purchases after one of mine turned out to be a wobbler. One I had vetted had kissing spines and one owner refused to have the horse xray'd and I walked away, these were wb.

The purchase price isn't the main issue for me. The problem is what will you do if the horse becomes unrideable and the cost of keeping potentially for 20+ years.

It looks like for an ID it would be a better use of funds to focus on the stifles and hocks. Maybe the vet could make a recommendation based on what kind of issues are commonly seen in the breed.
 
nutjob said:
A friend bought a wc x tb who had to be retired age 5 just a few months after purchase because of hock arthritis, PSD and SI issues, he passed a 5 stage.

I chose to have the whole of the spine xray'd on potential purchases after one of mine turned out to be a wobbler. One I had vetted had kissing spines and one owner refused to have the horse xray'd and I walked away, these were wb.

The purchase price isn't the main issue for me. The problem is what will you do if the horse becomes unrideable and the cost of keeping potentially for 20+ years.

It looks like for an ID it would be a better use of funds to focus on the stifles and hocks. Maybe the vet could make a recommendation based on what kind of issues are commonly seen in the breed.
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Thanks. They tend to do a full ‘set’ plus neck or price it all individually, I’ll speak to the vet and see what they advise.
 
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I am an easy come easy go person with horses .
I have bought lame horses who were older who we had several great years after I got them sorted out with and I have also bought near perfect sound young horse who romped the vetting and turned out to be money pit, and all points on the scale.
So I don’t really know what the best way to proceed it really depends on your attitude to risk and your mind set to managing an imperfect horse and of course the disposable income you have to manage an imperfect horse so it has a good life.
If it were me I would have as much of a vetting as they can do and then hope for the best .
I would not X-ray everywhere .
But then I can afford loads of vets bills .
H was lame at his vetting and grafted for over a decade and lost his life to something unconnected to the problem .
There’s no right answer to this question .
 
I am an easy come easy go person with horses .
I have bought lame horses who were older who we had several great years after I got them sorted out with and I have also bought near perfect sound young horse who romped the vetting and turned out to be money pit, and all points on the scale.
So I don’t really know what the best way to proceed it really depends on your attitude to risk and your mind set to managing an imperfect horse and of course the disposable income you have to manage an imperfect horse so it has a good life.
If it were me I would have as much of a vetting as they can do and then hope for the best .
I would not X-ray everywhere .
But then I can afford loads of vets bills .
H was lame at his vetting and grafted for over a decade and lost his life to something unconnected to the problem .
There’s no right answer to this question .
 
I'd do as much or as little as makes you comfortable.

If your an over thinker and will constantly be second guessing every short or off stride I'd x ray. If you are happy you have a sound horse in front of you and leave the thinking there then I wouldn't.

I know vet bills are expensive and we all worry about how much we spend, but I think this is more about you being a settled and calm horse owner to enjoy your new horse the best way you can and if x rays help you be that person after your previous experiences then so be it.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
I don't know much about ID lines but she has Glidawn Diamond, Clover Hill, Keamore Hill, KOD, Seacrest.

Her full older brother is out hunting and doing really well, so that's as positive.
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Might be worth asking the ID experts on here if there are any known traits passed down from her breeding lines so that you can advise the vet what to look for.
 
I'm really on the fence with this one.

As I've said previously my physio friend says you could xray 10 horses, eight may show changes, only one may be in pain. How you determine which one it is especially as the horse you're after won't demonstrate pain as easily as a ridden horse due to being not backed yet.

I honestly don't know. But with the benefit of knowing Lari's issues now, if I'd had him xrayed at his vetting (and it would have been the first one I'd ever bought that would have been subjected to xrays as part of a PPE) I'd have not made such a costly mistake. Although I'd like to add that I don't really see him as a 'mistake' as I love him dearly and don't really regret the way things turned out.
 
Birker2020 said:
I'm really on the fence with this one.

As I've said previously my physio friend says you could xray 10 horses, eight may show changes, only one may be in pain. How you determine which one it is especially as the horse you're after won't demonstrate pain as easily as a ridden horse due to being not backed yet.

I honestly don't know. But with the benefit of knowing Lari's issues now, if I'd had him xrayed at his vetting (and it would have been the first one I'd ever bought that would have been subjected to xrays as part of a PPE) I'd have not made such a costly mistake. Although I'd like to add that I don't really see him as a 'mistake' as I love him dearly and don't really regret the way things turned out.
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I totally get what you're saying.. some findings on x-rays don't affect them, for example a lot of horses have findings on neck x-rays but doesn't mean it will hinder them. I've never x-rayed a horse on a PPE before.

Same for my mare as Lari really. She had a mega chip in her hock - if I'd of had her hocks x-rayed I wouldn't of bought her because I know how detrimental OCD can be, although some say it never causes a problem hers became dislodged. She taught me a lot and love her to bits, but she has caused so much stress and emotion.

I don't want to go 'looking' for problems but equally want to try and know what I'm dealing with. I feel like stifle and hocks are worth taking images of, I'm not as concerned about the back in a 3yo but who knows, then I think maybe feet are a good choice but where do you stop? I don't really want to spend so much on a vetting for a horse of low value. I guess I'm trying to save myself from the stress and pain of it, and give us the best run.
 
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I dont know which lines in the ID world are more likely to have issues. But can say the lines youve mentioned tend to be the more performance types than show types. BenPurple & KOD both throw good jumping lines. CloverHill / Seacrest are ones i avoid, purely as they tend to be a bit sharper. But from reading your other posts, you where considering off the track TBs, they could suit you well.

As for the vetting and xrays. Completely personal choice, and how risk averse you are. If i was xraying id be checking hooves/ back.
 
God it’s difficult.
As discussed minor findings versus clinical significance is a minefield.

Another thing to consider is insurance. If you have X-rays you have to declare them. So you will either shoot yourself in the foot and potentially have exclusions that may otherwise have been covered or you potentially vet multiple horses to get clean X-rays, and in doing so could eat significantly into your budget!

Might be worth exploring what insurance companies require for LOU cover and then only X-ray if there is clinical doubt on vetting (but insure LOU). That said on a relatively low purchase price there are pros and cons to anything.

ETA - personally I wouldn’t X-ray. That isn’t however me saying you shouldn’t. This is from increasing experience whereby the correlation of X-rays to how fit for purpose the horse is, is so low imo. For a low value 3yo I’d go basic 2 stage and assess conformation and general ease of moment/balance/demeanour, then cross your fingers
 
I think it’s one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t situations as the X-rays don’t always correspond to how the horse is clinically and so you may end up passing on horses that would never have become symptomatic but equally you could be saving yourself a lot of heartache. (Although if you X-ray one body part then where do you draw the line as to how many other body parts you also want to X-ray?)

I’ve never had anything vetted as never spent more than about £2.5k and realistically my last purchase there wouldn’t have been facilities to do some parts of the vetting anyway.

I think if I’d had the Welsh D vetted he probably WOULD have showed lame on circle on hard ground given that he went lame in front a few months later (but was not lame on hard ground in a straight line when I bought him) but I think me buying him and going on the journey I did with him was very necessary and I do not regret it / would not want to have missed out on all the stuff he forced me to learn and the good times that we did have.

The fuzzball I don’t think having him vetted would have flagged anything tbh. X-rays of his feet might (depending on exactly when the sidebone started as it’s entirely possible that all occurred in the timeframe of my ownership of him) and as for his neck as we don’t know exactly what IS going on there, what caused it and when it’s highly unlikely we’d have found it (plus I don’t think the calibre of machine needed to get really good X-rays of the base of a Highland neck is the kind of kit typically present at a vetting… nor is that a view I’d even have thought about checking at the time)

I will get my next purchase vetted due to

A the increased amount it’s likely to cost me with how the market is now

B my appalling luck!

Don’t think I want to open the X-ray can of worms though unless a vet was to explicitly tell me to X-ray a part they were concerned about (& even then only if I really liked the horse)
 
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