XC Boots - Dr David Marlin lecture. Essential stuff!

kerilli

kerilli

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The whole video is here:
http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/
top article, "Leg Protection For The Event Horse"
It is absolutely fascinating, I learnt a LOT and will be very carefully reviewing my choice of protective boots from now on, although i'm about 90% sure i'll stick with what i'm using...
for those who don't have the time or the inclination to watch a 30 mins ish lecture about horse injuries and their prevention, a potted history:
lower forelimbs are the most likely sites of horse injury.
Do NOT fit boots tightly, they can do a lot of harm. If you have to fit them tightly to stop them slipping, or if you have to tape them, they DO NOT FIT that horse's legs.
They should be lightweight.
They mustn't restrict.
They mustn't rub.
They shouldn't absorb water (some boots tested actually doubled in weight after going through a water jump...)
They should be on for the shortest possible time (let those susceptible tendons start cooling down as soon as you can after exercise. fwiw I take boots off before taking tack off, washing down, or anything now.) Then get ice or cold water on asap.
Boots need to absorb impact (not increase concussion) as well as deflect a penetrating blow.
His final recommendation: ask the manufacturer of any boots you're considering buying, what testing they do.
He didn't recommend any particular make of boot, nor did he disclose which boots were which on the testing charts they showed (just numbered Boot 1, Boot 2 etc) but iirc he works with Trizone...
Well worth watching. Enjoy!
 
Thanks for link Kerrilli, will watch when I get a chance. I have always wondered about the practice of taping boots - I use prem equine airflow event boots and have never needed tape to keep them on. And I also take boots off first as soon as finish xc, often as soon as I jump off after finish line and walk back to lorry before
Washing down and putting on his aerborn cool boots.
Interesting to hear re some boots doubling in weight!
 
I have the PE Airflow boots and they fit my boy perfickly but still tape them sometimes but only to give added security ie lower the risk of losing one. Know it may sound bizarre and overly cautious but for example had a 10 mile cross country ride at the weekend and would have been gutted to lose a boot round that so taped them.....just realised....maybe am OCD !! Oh no, help me mommy :) :) !
 
very interesting....
my mare had a slight swelling this last winter from galloping about and being an arse onthe frozen ground - talked to vet about protective boots etc and she said they stop knocks but can't help tendons etc - in fact she advised against using them as they heat the legs (obv still use for xc comps etc)
i did use them on her last year for the odd days hunting but they were hot under afterwards - i wont this year - she's a careful jumper (fingers crossed) so i'd rather keep her legs as cool as poss
i also have a 10mile fun ride on sunday inc 20ish jumps - again i wont use them due to the time they will be on her legs...
 
I tried asking boot companies what testing they do, when trawling round the trade stands at badminton! None of them (including Trizone ) were able to give me a straight answer, & the 2 that said they would get back to me never did. They all said that they tested extensively, & their boots were brilliant with respect to weight/ heating/concussion/penetration/protection issues, but when I pressed further to find out HOW they had conducted the tests, none of them could tell me.!! I wasn't asking for the full technical details, just an idea of how much force was used, & before & after temperatures........basic information I would have thought!!!.
 
It is very interesting, I have watched the video previously. It's disappointing that Trizone couldnt answer the question about testing, as they have done a LOT of research... their website holds some details I believe?!

I am more than happy with my choice at the moment (Tri-zone in front and prolite behind) and will never tape boots, as if they get the the point where they are just being held on by tape, I would rather they fall off than restrict my horses movement as they flap around their fetlocks! Also, tape doesnt snap easily, so if it gets caught on a fence, again, i would much rather the boot come off than the tape keep it on and trip the horse over. :) Just my opinion after much pondering ;)
 
Interesting stuff K can't watch the vid atm but will look later. I like my porter boots and bandages, light weight, the porter boots have holes in and don't absorb water (obvs bandages do a bit) and they are nice and cool on his legs as they are not very thick. Used to have Clarendon ones ages ago and although they are nice I just thought with all the sheepskin, and weight to them they must get hot and heavy....

Taping wise I always tape my boots and bandages, but not to keep them on more as a fail safe for the velcro (eg if they were Sabre event boots with buckles I wouldn't tape them) I think that maybe brushing a leg on a fence might flap the velcro tabs back and loosen the boot/bandage so I tape over the top, but never tight....

Worst thing I think when it comes to boots is people routinely turning out in them, just can't see imho how that can be good for the legs.....
 
Really interesting, yet something else to worry about! I have used prolite boots for a while now and have been happy with them. However have just weighed them and they are 9/10oz, not good, but they are flexible, soft, breathable and do not retain water. I have never been a fan of the boots that have a super stiff strip in them, thought I had chosen well but now have doubt in my mind. Does anyone have any reccomendations of a lighter xc boot?

Also, would you conclude that maybe leather boots would be preferable with regards to the dispersal of concussion, or again would the weight of them be a downside? :confused:
 
I used to use Porter boots and Clarendon in the dark ages! They have not got proper protective guards and I am not convinced they are shatter proof. In the dark ages they were the best avaliable but now I think there is better products out there. IMO the fact that you never see them anymore tells a lot.

Clarendon are absolutely awful. They are too easy to overtighten, they are hot, absorb water and have no tendon guards.

I think it was Miss de Summer who said that testing in the finish box was being carried out by vets into tendon tempratures get after xc with boots and she was told that Style came out one of the worst.
 
Not watched the video yet but just some futher pondering...

Riding xc including warm up would be approx 30mins at an event? What about daily schooling/jumping/hacking? Boots tend to be worn for longer in those instances; would different boots be recommended or has testing been done on longer periods of use? Just thinking the boots you'd wear for XC are generally the same boots worn for an hour + of xc schooling for example. Is it a case of narrowing the focus too much to just be testing at competitions? Every chance I'm way off track!

Re taking boots off straight after xc - remember to take any studs out first. Seen some horrible injuries by taking boots off first :(
 
I used Clarendon boots on my very very good horse who broke down after doing Windsor in 1993. I blame the horrendously hard ground, and I blame myself for not knowing any better about running, or about the boots. Wish someone had told me. Argh. They were hot and got very heavy in water, that sheepskin was like a sponge.
In the testing in the vid, he doesn't name any of the boots, but the fact that it is sponsored by Trizone is probably a very big clue...
A LOT of Pros use Prolite, on horses that seem to stay sound year after year after year, so I conclude from that that they must be good... I've always thought they must heat the legs up though, willing to stand corrected.
I've used NEW aircooled and lightweight boots for years and been happy with them, but now wonder about their protection against concussion. Having said which, I'm always more concerned about penetrative impact than concussive impact... my horses rarely touch xc fences, so far anyway! The NEWs are lightweight and flexible apart from the solid tendon guard (which doesn't impinge on the fetlock joint anyway), they are aircooled, so that's 3 out of 4...
I have PE hinds but have to fit them quite firmly, a rethink might be required there.
 
TPO said:
Not watched the video yet but just some futher pondering...

Riding xc including warm up would be approx 30mins at an event? What about daily schooling/jumping/hacking? Boots tend to be worn for longer in those instances; would different boots be recommended or has testing been done on longer periods of use? Just thinking the boots you'd wear for XC are generally the same boots worn for an hour + of xc schooling for example. Is it a case of narrowing the focus too much to just be testing at competitions? Every chance I'm way off track!

Re taking boots off straight after xc - remember to take any studs out first. Seen some horrible injuries by taking boots off first :(
Click to expand...

Daily schooling/jumping/hacking wouldn't be at such an intensity, would it? I think he's talking particularly about horses galloping and tendons getting very hot because of the work they have to do at speed and jumping.

I take boots off, tack off, wash off, scrape, rug up, ice legs, walk around, then remove studs last. Oh dear. Never seen an injury yet doing it that way... what have I missed? Please add to my utter paranoia...
 
kerilli said:
Daily schooling/jumping/hacking wouldn't be at such an intensity, would it? I think he's talking particularly about horses galloping and tendons getting very hot because of the work they have to do at speed and jumping.

I take boots off, tack off, wash off, scrape, rug up, ice legs, walk around, then remove studs last. Oh dear. Never seen an injury yet doing it that way... what have I missed? Please add to my utter paranoia...
Click to expand...


I guess not. Say for example XC schooling where you've warmed up and popped a few and then string a wee course together. Is having a walk inbetween enough to cool down legs before starting again? Only other example I can think of is doing fittening/interval work which is quite intensive. Just wondering if certain boots are better/ok for short (intensive) periods of time and others for a longer period at possibly a lower intensity?

Re studs; a horse kicked at a fly and shredded inside of opposite hind leg. Seen pics a friend had of another horse that some how stood on itself and ripped from below the knee to fetlock. Don't know what the prognosis was for them. My vets issued a newletter in the summer that included a section on studs and one of the main points was to always remove studs before boots. Sorry to make you more paranoid but I know how you feel, I'm The Paranoid Owner!!
 
I think the order of doing things depends on your horse to be honest. If you have a horse that is a bit of a loon or clearly still hyped following XC then you might want to get studs out as soon as you can safely do so to avoid them injuring themselves. Mine is sensible so I get boots and tack off, wash and ice legs and walk off before I think about studs.
 
Oh no, something else for us to worry about! My horse shied at something once when schooling as as it was a sand he didn't have boots and he removed all the hair down the inside of his cannon bone, so I have used boots all the time since then. (Was very sore and swollen and took several weeks to heal completely).

My activities tend to be slower (no galloping and jumping) but much longer, like 4-5 hour hacks. So what boots to use now????
 
Okay, boots off, cooling boots on immediately (better to shred those than legs), then the rest. Good idea though, thanks TPO.
for hacking and other stuff, I don't think it's so important tbh. It seems to be galloping and jumping that really heat the tendons up.
Must admit though, I'm very suspicious of neoprene now. This is the fabric that was developed to INSULATE deep-sea divers, fgs. It's very warm, 1 minute in a wetsuit on a hot day and I was sweltering. BUT, once it is wet, in the air, it cools amazingly, you can really feel the wind chill through it (personal experience, shivering to death on a boat). So, should the rule be, that if you are using neoprene boots, they should be wet?
 
kerilli said:
Daily schooling/jumping/hacking wouldn't be at such an intensity, would it? I think he's talking particularly about horses galloping and tendons getting very hot because of the work they have to do at speed and jumping.

I take boots off, tack off, wash off, scrape, rug up, ice legs, walk around, then remove studs last. Oh dear. Never seen an injury yet doing it that way... what have I missed? Please add to my utter paranoia...
Click to expand...

I have had drummed into me by Lucy W who I think had a good horse with a career ending injury that you wash take studs out and then boots, never boots before studs. Horses can still be quite high on adrenalin at the finish yet physicaly tired which makes a self inflected studding injury far more likely. I always have a tap at the finish so I can get studs out as soon as they are recovered enogh to stand still.
 
With regards to removing the studs first, having heard your views, I am still of the opinion that I prefer to remove boots immediately, then tack, then wash off, studs are always the last thing I do. I always think they stand quieter after being made comfortable. Admitedly my horse is not a wild type. I also realise that Lucy W has alot more knowledge about these things than I ever will :)

With regards to the use of studs, if at all possible I will only stud on the outside of each hoof, partly for the reason of self inflicted injuries, so maybe therefore reducing the likelihood of this being a problem, I digress!
 
I use prolites on the front and (ok only doing up to PN stuff) have never had a problem. I can see how they would be more heating than others though. For me, they get taken off quickly and horse gets walked round. I don't have cooling boots/ice/gel etc. When he gets home he gets turned out. Out 24/7 in the summer.

I worry most about his legs in the winter doing BS, out of stable into wagin, compete, back on wagon, and straight back into stable (as already dark again :( ) I still wear the prolites for BS as he really hates to touch anything. Maybe I'll have a rethink on them - they are about 5 years old :eek : :)

Regarding studs, I don't wear boots behind for SJ, as he doesn't really like them but put studs in - only one, and on the outside. Competing on grass this summer, and he stabbed himself in the middle of his own coronet band. Thankfully, not too deeply and has healed well (scar now travelling down hoof) but made me think I need to be more careful, although not sure how I'd prevent that again, other than no studs obviously :)
 
LJR said:
With regards to the use of studs, if at all possible I will only stud on the outside of each hoof, partly for the reason of self inflicted injuries, so maybe therefore reducing the likelihood of this being a problem, I digress!
Click to expand...

I did that and yet still mine stabbed himself! He's not a flighty type either, think he was casually resting a leg and when I asked him to walk on, he trod on his own leg! :rolleyes: :)
 
Cannot remember which event but Miss de Summer used Style and was asking for alternative choices.
 
Did he have an opinion on people using boots/bandages routinely day to day for all types of work? I will only put boots on to jump or if planning on hacking over rough ground as I figure over use of boots/bandages will actually weaken the tendons long term as they become dependant on the support.

Personally I use PE air cooled event boots for lungeing and xc schooling or hacking over dodgy ground, JHL tendon and fetlock boots for jumping at home, MT leather tendon and fetlock boots for SJ at shows and Sabre Event boots for the xc phase. None of the above seem to over heat the legs externally, but not really a guide to the internal temperature of the tendons!

Thanks for the info, haven't got the time to watch the video now but the summary is useful.
 
He states pretty categorically that NO boot can support the tendons... some boots limit the range of the fetlock (because the boots are inflexible) but he says this is dangerous ground - the horse evolved as it has for a reason, and if we're going to limit the action of such an important joint, we'd better know what we're doing...
So, I infer from all this that he's no fan of so-called 'support boots' that wrap around the fetlock...
I think he's a big fan of protecting the legs (showed a pic of an interference injury to a leg, the horse's second injury in exactly the same place, this one necessitated euthanasia - and he said "some people don't learn.)
Fwiw, i have front boots on all horses doing any kind of work at all times, but bare legs when out in the field (except maybe first 1/2 hour after box rest or something.) I don't think the tendons get dependent on them.
 
kerilli said:
He states pretty categorically that NO boot can support the tendons... some boots limit the range of the fetlock (because the boots are inflexible) but he says this is dangerous ground - the horse evolved as it has for a reason, and if we're going to limit the action of such an important joint, we'd better know what we're doing...
So, I infer from all this that he's no fan of so-called 'support boots' that wrap around the fetlock...
I think he's a big fan of protecting the legs (showed a pic of an interference injury to a leg, the horse's second injury in exactly the same place, this one necessitated euthanasia - and he said "some people don't learn.)
Fwiw, i have front boots on all horses doing any kind of work at all times, but bare legs when out in the field (except maybe first 1/2 hour after box rest or something.) I don't think the tendons get dependent on them.
Click to expand...

You see I agree with this theoretically but I know from my own experiences wearing an ankle support (one of the ones which is neoprene with velcro straps not a pull on neoprene) to play squash that my ankle does become dependant on it and the more I use it (max three hours per week) the weaker my ankle gets, so I only use it when my ankle is going through a weak stage and threatening to collapse under me. Slightly different as I have a predisposing weakness there but wonder if the principle carries over.

Having said that, a bandage does offer more support than a boot (again from experience of strapping my wrist up to play squash! than any kind of support "boot" so maybe bandages will offer more support than boots. Interesting one that I guess could be argued either way.
 
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