Yard access for loaners/sharers?

M

Merlod

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,060
Visit site
How many loaners spoil the broth? I have a small DIY yard and there is one livery who I feel has an excessive amount of "guests" turning up to ride/see her two horses. There are at least 5 people (not including the owner or her direct family!)

I wouldn't have such a problem if it were one regular sharer per horse (like the other liveries have) but I don't like these unknown and unsupervised people left to their own devices on my yard and who all obviously all have had keys (despite contract saying no keys to be given out, but owner has got around this saying she just "lends" them her own keys which I can't prove or disprove). It is a small holding so I don't live on site. What would you do?
 
Merlod said:
How many loaners spoil the broth? I have a small DIY yard and there is one livery who I feel has an excessive amount of "guests" turning up to ride/see her two horses. There are at least 5 people (not including the owner or her direct family!)

I wouldn't have such a problem if it were one regular sharer per horse (like the other liveries have) but I don't like these unknown and unsupervised people left to their own devices on my yard and who all obviously all have had keys (despite contract saying no keys to be given out, but owner has got around this saying she just "lends" them her own keys which I can't prove or disprove). It is a small holding so I don't live on site. What would you do?
Click to expand...

I would advise them that any "non-Liveries" need to be accompanied when on site.
 
I wouldn't like this happening at my place AT ALL! I have no objection to sharers, if they are regular ones, who have an agreement with the owner, but I wouldn't want all and sundry turning up without my permission. I've got a "no unaccompanied visitors" clause written into my livery contracts - it's my home, and if people don't like it, they can find somewhere else! If it happened here, and the owner wasn't being reasonable, I'd think long and hard about whether I wanted them on my yard
 
I'm on a bigger DIY livery yard and even we find it disconcerting when people have a seemingly large number of sharers/loaners and you never know who they are, so I think your concerns are justified. Hope you can sort it out!
 
We had a similar issue on the yard I was on. It was not so much of people having sharers... but when one horse had3/5 people - and then the sharer was getting paid for these people to use their horse.

Using the school became an issue - as some of these people would 'hog' the school / tie up areas - and make you out to be the problem for trying to do your own horse!

I never understood how having so many sharers to one horse, was of any benefit to the animal its self.... different bottoms in the saddle, different hands.... and different times for routine.

Having one sharer IMO is acceptable... but multiple - then its a mini business within a business ?
 
Thanks all for replying, at least I know i'm not being unreasonable and that everyone is on the same level as me! Frustratingly we do have a contract but clearly those who don't want to listen can always make just enough wiggle room.

I think I will say that only one loaner per horse is to have their own access.. everyone else must be accompanied (and not accompanied and then left!) Is it better to put that in writing, i've already made it an amendment in the contract in Oct/Nov which she ignored and hasn't returned or should I just say it in person?
 
Merlod said:
I think I will say that only one loaner per horse is to have their own access.. everyone else must be accompanied (and not accompanied and then left!) Is it better to put that in writing, i've already made it an amendment in the contract in Oct/Nov which she ignored and hasn't returned or should I just say it in person?
Click to expand...

Ideally tell all liveries face to face then put a notice up in tack room/notice board and follow up with an amendment to contract. Give a date from which it applies, I would think a weeks notice would be reasonable
 
The yard keys should not be "lent" to anyone who is not known to you, I would be furious if one of my liveries allowed access to the tack room to a "friend" who I had not met, what they do with their own horse is their own business but giving keys out to people who are unknown to you is totally irresponsible and if it happened a second time would probably be a good enough reason to give the livery notice to leave.
I would want to be properly introduced to any "visitors" and have contact details for anyone having access to my premises, unless they are just coming with the livery on the odd occasion.
 
I don't mind 2 sharers (+ owner) for a horse on my yard but I do need to know who they are!
For the first weeks of a new person, I won't allow them on site by themselves. Up to the owner to sort it out. I used to be less "on it" as we don't live on site and it's a DIY yard so owners can mostly do as they wish, but ever since a new sharer who turned out to be a total novice got trampled in a gateway by three horses .... and it turned out she'd taken a bag of carrots into a herd environment to help catch her (easy to catch) new share horse I put my foot down and the rule is absolute and non-negotiable!.
I have a few liveries who have 2 sharers, and one who even has 3 (albeit not regular) but they are known to me and generally ride out with more regular people so it's no problem. It's not quantity it's quality!
 
A yard I was previously on had a rule that sharers/ loaders had to be approved by the yard owner before being allowed unaccompanied. Seemed to work well.
 
Quite simple- your land. If they're there without your supervision they're trespassing. I'd be making that quite clear. As well as telling them not to lend the keys to your property to people you don't know.
 
As you wouldn't have a livery on the yard that you hadn't met I can't see it would be a problem to insist you meet all sharers and ok them. I would want contact details for anyone coming onto the yard unsupervised. An upgrade of the contract sounds good maybe with a note attached saying if not returned by a certain date then you will take it as notice being served. Would she be difficult to replace?
 
That is seriously rude of your livery and concerning in a way if they cannot understand why this might be an issue.

I'd be considering if you want/need them as a livery at all?
 
While your on a roll ,I would also put in the contract that the livery will be personally be held responsible for the actions of any sharers as your contract is with the livery.
 
Last edited:
zaminda said:
As you wouldn't have a livery on the yard that you hadn't met I can't see it would be a problem to insist you meet all sharers and ok them. I would want contact details for anyone coming onto the yard unsupervised. An upgrade of the contract sounds good maybe with a note attached saying if not returned by a certain date then you will take it as notice being served. Would she be difficult to replace?
Click to expand...

This is how it works on our yard. YO meets the sharers and gets proof of our liability/rider insurance, takes car details etc so she knows who we are.
 
Lexi_ said:
This is how it works on our yard. YO meets the sharers and gets proof of our liability/rider insurance, takes car details etc so she knows who we are.
Click to expand...
That seems a good idea. I think I would also get them to sign someone that includes the yard rules and were and when they can go, so they can not say,'no ever told me'.
 
I have known a few yards where sharers have had to fill in forms, prove suitable insurance etc. before being allowed to come on to the yard unaccompanied. Seems totally reasonable to me.

Assuming you're clearly unhappy with the current arrangements, and I totally understand why, a change to your livery contract with reasonable notice, ideally backed up with a face to face conversation with affected liveries, might be the way to go? If anyone didn't comply you are then well within your rights to give notice.
 
Agree with all the above comments.

My DIY livery is polite and considerate to a fault in that she lets me know if there will be any visitors to the yard such as vets/farriers/guests etc. We live on site, so that is important.

Even though the OP does not live on-site at the smallholding, I personally would not be at all happy with the set-up, I would want to know who is visiting and what they are up to.

The livery should not be giving out the keys that she has been entrusted with; that is a violation of trust and the YO has no way of knowing who is visiting the place!

Additionally, my thoughts would be concentrated towards bio-security; fellow liveries would have every justification to be concerned at the willy-nilly comings and goings of unauthorised and potentially there are Health & Safety issues here too.

As YO, OP you need to get considerably more ballsy about this.

Tell this livery that, come the New Year (good opportunity!) you are going to be drawing up new livery contracts for everyone. Period. In this contract there will be certain stipulations and restrictions, which others on here have very wisely suggested, concerning visitors to the yard.

You could also go onto the BHS website as they have some pro-forma livery contracts on there and you could use them as a base for your own contract.

I think you have to stop the rot on this yard NOW. Firstly change the locks. Change them to keys that cannot be copied: yes you can have this done! for e.g. I have been entrusted with a key to the church hall, and when I tried to get the dang thing copied, the place where I went to say sorry we are not allowed to copy this type of key, so it IS possible. You may have to go to a security company for this but IMO it would be money well spent. You would then issue ONE key per livery which they would not be allowed to copy.

The issue of who has the right of access to the yard - and to other people's horses and possessions, is unacceptable. YO you don't know who is visiting, or what they are up to. Not trying to frighten you here, but if someone has an accident at this yard then you are liable to be left in the soft and smelly......

Personally I would chuck this livery out PDQ. She sounds like nothing but trouble and believe me people like this will bring the rot into a yard and before you know it there will be even bigger problems. Get rid, get rid PDQ would be my advice. This one is taking the P!ss big-time.
 
Last edited:
I'm obviously the odd one out, when I took on someone to share my yard (I was struggling with the upkeep myself) I've never had a problem with her sharers, sharers friends, kids and kids friends or any of the other many people she invites down being there, I trust her, and if I didn't she wouldn't be there, so I trust that she wouldn't have anyone 'dodgy' being there, at the end of the day she keeps her horses and tack, which are all worth more than mine, there so she wouldn't want anybody untrustworthy hanging around
 
I think it is totally right that you should know who has a key to your yard.

I think add a line on the contract that says that liveries are not allowed to lend their keys to other people or get copies of the keys taken without your permission. All persons on the yard need to be authorised key holders or under the direct supervision of authorised key holders. On the contract list the names of people associated with the horse that you have issued keys to and who are allowed on the yard unsupervised by the horse owner or another approved key holder. If the livery requires an extra key {eg new sharer} then amend the contract. If someone who has been issued with a key no longer needs to come to the yard eg termination of sharing contract you must be informed and the sharers key returned to you.

This gives you the flexibility of being able to accommodate people with large number of sharers or a family group who might come and help out but give the peace of mind of knowing who has the keys to your property. If you are approachable then it should not be that hard for liveries to say Sharer x is starting on date Y please can they have a key or my friend x will come and help me out sometimes and will require a key.
 
rowan666 said:
I'm obviously the odd one out, when I took on someone to share my yard (I was struggling with the upkeep myself) I've never had a problem with her sharers, sharers friends, kids and kids friends or any of the other many people she invites down being there, I trust her, and if I didn't she wouldn't be there, so I trust that she wouldn't have anyone 'dodgy' being there, at the end of the day she keeps her horses and tack, which are all worth more than mine, there so she wouldn't want anybody untrustworthy hanging around
Click to expand...

So how do you know if the new stranger on the yard is one of her friends or a thief sizing up what they can nick from your yard?
 
little_critter said:
So how do you know if the new stranger on the yard is one of her friends or a thief sizing up what they can nick from your yard?
Click to expand...

Absolutely this. It can't be helped on a large yard, or a riding school, there are bound to be strangers coming and going. However on a private yard it's a big no. I don't want strangers near my stuff, my horses or my land.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top