Yard expectations and rug changes

[Caol Ila]

I had a conversation with one of my friends while hacking yesterday. Her horse is on full livery, which includes rug changes. She was irritated that the staff could not always make the 'correct' decision about which rug to put on the horse (out of a pile on the rug racks), and she had to make sure that the one she wanted was very obvious. Her argument was that the yard is expensive, and the 'service' should therefore be good enough to include decision-making on rugs for full livery horses.

I pointed out that waffling over rugs actually takes quite a lot of mental effort, and if you have about 30 horses to deal with, the last thing you want to do is decide which rug to put on each one. Plus, you'll probably get it wrong anyway because the owner's idea of appropriate rugging might be different from yours. When I was on full livery, I either left the horse in whatever rug I wanted her to wear the next day, or left specific instructions in the book where liveries write notes to staff. "Change Gypsum to green rug please." Easy.

Friend insisted that for the price, the staff should still be able to make those decisions. The yard is at the upper end of average for the area. It is not the most expensive around, but there are cheaper ones. I said we're paying for facilities and proximity to a big city. It's very close to the West End, and the facilities are rather nice.

I have also never boarded at a stable where staff wanted to make those decisions for you. She has (in a different country). Even at much smaller yards, you had to leave out whichever rug you wanted on your rug rack. And you were only allowed a turnout rug and a stable rug on neatly folded on aforesaid rug rack.

Unlike this disaster zone. This is what happens when I have freedom to be me. Not all of these even belong to this horse! The Newmarket fleece is Gypsum's and the fly rug is Fin's. But she is DIY, so who cares.

Anyway, the YO at one place I stayed at would snark about you to other liveries because he thought everything should be in a 400g rug, but it was still up to you.

I imagine that at elite yards, like Carl Hester's, the grooms do make more day-to-day decisions, but they are probably better paid.

What would you expect from full livery? Just musing, really, as my horses are DIY so I do everything.

 

[Barton Bounty]

For me.. i wouldnt expect staff to be able to distinguish 250 from 450 without picking up each rug unless labelled. Also it would be really time consuming. Id just sit the rug out that I want on as I have done in the past. ?

 

[ihatework]

On a smaller yard or a yard with a dedicated care giver then I’d expect an upfront discussion on rugging expectations and hope to build that 1:1 rapport where I can trust them to get in with it.

On a bigger yard with multiple care givers of varying experience I’d expect to have to manage it by only leaving out rugs I wanted used.

 

[Bernster]

I may have been spoiled but yes on full livery the staff choose which rugs to put on from the stack outside the stable. Or ask me for other ones from the other stack in another place. (Too many rugs.) They check the temp and put what they think is the right rug on. If anything I might sometimes go a tiny bit lighter (especially Finn who tends to get porky) but I’m not there every day so I couldn‘t micromanage that anyway (no criticism intended there).

 

[criso]

From the other side, previous yard YM didn't approve of my fat fluffy retired tb who hated rugs being naked in the stable and would ignore my instructions. I ended up leaving a very thin cotton sheet and nothing else so she felt she was putting something on.

I think it should be a 2 way thing. I try not to complicate matters by only leaving what's needed on the rail. There's a mw and a hw out at the moment and I'll say what I prefer but as current YM is sensible, she has instructions to go up or down as she sees fit.

I can also see the argument of leaving it at the discretion of the yard if the owner is less experienced or away so doesn't know how cold or hot it is.

 

[Red-1]

Mine are usually at home but I do board at livery occasionally. They have a rug rack outside each stable and I keep 2 outfits for indoors and two for outdoors there. One set for if it is cold and the other for if it is hot.

Yes, I do trust that they look at the weather and decide, but then it is a quick decision between 2 rugs, not a tangle of them.

 

[ycbm]

I'm in a big yard but with only a few full livery and I wouldn't expect them to second guess what rug I want on my horse. I leave 2 of the weight I want and they swap them over every morning to change the pressure points.

If the weather was swinging about all over the place i would leave a choice between obviously lighter and obviously heavier and they would decide.
.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I would expect the level of service I paid for. For a basic bog end service I’d expect to find my horse in a dubious choice of rug sometimes. For an above average price I’d expect the staff to be able to choose an appropriate rug. If I have to micro-manage them I’d be wondering what I was paying for. As a full livery client I want to be able to leave my horse for a few days and even weeks if required and him be appropriately managed without my need to worry about the competence of the choices made in my absence.

 

[Inda]

I wouldn’t expect it from a livery yard. However my current yard will swap to a lighter or heavier if they feel it’s warranted.

my expectations go as far as changing from a turnout rug to a stable rug so maybe they’re too low. I’ve been full livery on three yards in the area and this is the first time I’ve had this.

I think your friend has an unreasonable expectation of what is available in this area?

 

[Birker2020]

I had a conversation with one of my friends while hacking yesterday. Her horse is on full livery, which includes rug changes. She was irritated that the staff could not always make the 'correct' decision about which rug to put on the horse (out of a pile on the rug racks), and she had to make sure that the one she wanted was very obvious. Her argument was that the yard is expensive, and the 'service' should therefore be good enough to include decision-making on rugs for full livery horses.

I pointed out that waffling over rugs actually takes quite a lot of mental effort, and if you have about 30 horses to deal with, the last thing you want to do is decide which rug to put on each one. Plus, you'll probably get it wrong anyway because the owner's idea of appropriate rugging might be different from yours. When I was on full livery, I either left the horse in whatever rug I wanted her to wear the next day, or left specific instructions in the book where liveries write notes to staff. "Change Gypsum to green rug please." Easy.

Friend insisted that for the price, the staff should still be able to make those decisions. The yard is at the upper end of average for the area. It is not the most expensive around, but there are cheaper ones. I said we're paying for facilities and proximity to a big city. It's very close to the West End, and the facilities are rather nice.

I have also never boarded at a stable where staff wanted to make those decisions for you. She has (in a different country). Even at much smaller yards, you had to leave out whichever rug you wanted on your rug rack. And you were only allowed a turnout rug and a stable rug on neatly folded on aforesaid rug rack.

Unlike this disaster zone. This is what happens when I have freedom to be me. Not all of these even belong to this horse! The Newmarket fleece is Gypsum's and the fly rug is Fin's. But she is DIY, so who cares.View attachment 106793

Anyway, the YO at one place I stayed at would snark about you to other liveries because he thought everything should be in a 400g rug, but it was still up to you.

I imagine that at elite yards, like Carl Hester's, the grooms do make more day-to-day decisions, but they are probably better paid.

What would you expect from full livery? Just musing, really, as my horses are DIY so I do everything.

I'm on DIY assisted to the staff make a decision based on the weather for that day. Occasionally I will say "please turn out in 50g or 100g" depending on the weather forecast from the night before. For help I write all my rug weights on the breast strap that goes across the chest so no one is left 'guessing'. I do this like '50g' for example, in perm marker.

 

[SEL]

I was doing some CPD at a lovely full livery yard recently and it was going to be cold overnight. There is obviously a 'normal' stable rug for each horse but I saw the YM instructing a few of the staff to chuck another on some of the horses. There's a lot of horses at that yard and I think some of the staff aren't massively horsey (bring in, turn out, muck out duties) so I can't see them making a personal decision for every single horse every single day.

But then I've also been to a very, very high end yard where I doubt many of the owners had put a rug on their own horse in a long time - and the yard staff there would have made all of the choices.

 

[humblepie]

It would depend. Yes in general staff should know but it would be something that would have been discussed unless owner not particularly knowledgeable. Not fair to have an endless selection of rugs though for people to work through, so rug then liner or neck cover if colder. When mine was on part livery, the yard manager is an over-rugger in my view, so I would leave the rug I wanted put on. Yard I was on years ago where I was DIY but most weren't the horses went in a rug in October and pretty much stayed in that til April. Was a shock when I moved to yard where the yard owner would change rugs during they day if it warmed up. I can easily spend 15 minutes rug deciding of an evening - if OH with me, it is five seconds to decide!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I work on a little full livery yard. I think the YM generally seems to have the day over owners! By that I don’t mean she argues with them
By any means but if she thinks they needs more or less than that’s what they get.
I guess the owners all trust her decision enough and in her absence myself or the other member of staff make the call if, say for example today it’s warmed up significantly and so we dropped a layer on a few.
I don’t necessarily do what I really think though I do what I know they or YO would like!
My horses wear far less!

 

[Dexter]

Mine has 2 rugs then liners. They are all labelled and bagged up with the weights written on as well. Staff manage his rugging. Initally there were discussions and check ins with me about it, but 9 months in and they know him and me, and manage accordingly.

 

[Meredith]

After many years of managing my own at home I had to ask for rugging guidance because the weather at the yard is so much kinder than where I live. I would have over rugged.

My horse wears a sheet, a snuggy hood and a turnout.

I have two bins. One holds 2 of light, medium or heavy turnouts. The horse wears the third.
In the second bin there is an old emergency light turnout, an under quilt ( for Arctic conditions ? ) and replacement sheets and hoods.

I change the sheet and hood for washing.
Everyone knows if any change is needed for damage, temperature or mud / wet where the replacements are.

In the summer I take most of those rugs home and leave a light turnout, a sheet and 2 sweet itch rugs for use on really fly-ey days.

 

[Auslander]

I choose what I feel is appropriate for each individual horse, but if an owner wants something different, I have no problem doing it their way. There are a couple that I think are over rugged, but they aren't sweating under their rugs, so I leave them be, as it makes the owners happy when their horse feels really toasty. There's also one who doesn't usually wear a rug, but I told her owner she needed something on recently as it's been so cold, and she is now a decent weight, after being obese most of her life. She is much happier in a mw turnout
If I ask, it's not because I dont know what I'd do - but because I don't know the owners preference

 

[HashRouge]

I think it depends quite a lot on the yard set up and whether it is smaller, with more personalised care, or a bigger yard where you might get several different grooms looking after your horse. Generally, I would expect to be leaving out the rug I wanted on the next day, or leaving a message with that information. Alternately, you could have some sort of board outside your stable/ tackroom showing which rug to use when (i.e. below 5 degrees, green rug). The risk with leaving grooms to make the decisions themselves is that they may have slightly different ideas about rugging, or may just not be clear on what different rug thicknesses you have (especially if you're someone with lots of rugs!).

I used to work as a yard manager for a professional show jumper and so any horses we had on full competition livery would be rugged by us. I think we kept it fairly simply though. The horses were all fully clipped and we just added an extra layer in the stable as it got colder. Turnout rugs we either had rain sheets or middleweights; summer they were always out unrugged.

 

[LegOn]

Again I'm a smaller yard where YO is very invested in all the horses - she would definitely change a rug if she felt it was needed! I do a layering system so she would just take a layer off! But if she didnt see or have to hand another rug - I would just get a text saying might need heavier/lighter rug! So I do feel very lucky - they are the ones looking at him more than me & I do like having a yard that gives proper care so I would be guided by them.

Same with feed though or foreage - they see what he eats more than me! If he needs more they tell me or at least we talk about it & if he needs less again we would just have a chat & adjust!

 

[NinjaPony]

Depends on the yard. For a part livery situation, I’d just leave out the rugs I was currently using, eg stable rug on, turnout hung up outside. I wouldn’t expect them to know the ins and outs of my horse’s rugs.

On a full livery yard where the yard has full day to day care, I would leave out an appropriate selection of rugs for them to use. Eg a heavy stable rug, one slightly lighter one, and the same for turnouts. I would expect the yard to be guided by me, but happy to change things eg if it suddenly got a lot warmer. I wouldn’t leave out the whole enormous selection, I used to leave out two at a time, one heavier and one slightly lighter. It’s all about trust, when my two were on full livery I never had an issue around rigs. I was up most days and would change a rug if I felt I needed to and they would be guided by me. The more hands on the yard, the more I would expect them to make the decisions.

 

[J&S]

Caol Ila, I am so impressed with how clean your rugs are!

 

[Gloi]

I'm on a medium sized yard and the staff pick suitable weight rugs for the horses depending on the weather but take account of what the owners want as well. Most have light and medium weight turnouts and stable rugs though mine is a tough cookie and just has a 50g for the cold snaps.
There is a local rug wash comes regularly to clean and mend any that need it.

 

[Annagain]

I'm on DIY but even knowing all my rugs, it can take me 5 minutes to find the right one. It's just occurred to me that always buying the navy rug probably isn't clever. Mine are nearly all Premier Equine and have the fill written on the straps but I have a couple of other and you have to look at the label to see what weight they are. Doing it for multiple horses with rugs you're not necessarily that familiar with, or even horses whose temperatures you're not that familiar with (new horses or new staff), could easily add an hour to your day. Choosing between two that have been left ready would be fine, any more than that is asking too much, I'd say.

 

[rextherobber]

It's also knowing the individual horse - I have one out now in a 450g, one in a 250g and one naked - that's the right choice for those individuals, but if I didn't know them as well as I do, I'd have put them all in 250gs today. Much more satisfactory to leave out the rug you want the horse to wear, although obviously if you were going on holiday, you'd leave a range for the staff to choose from. I think the friend is being a bit unreasonable, to be honest.

 

[Winters100]

I would expect a good yard not to turn out in something obviously silly, but I would not expect them to faff about wondering whether to put a 200 or 300g on the horse. I also think that it is not always obvious to someone who does not know the horse well, for example my good doer is not overweight, but I happen to know that he is a good doer, so always keep him in a rug which is on the light side,

I do the same as Birker. Every rug is labelled to indicate which horse it belongs to and what weight it is, so if I am away I can drop an sms to the groom to tell him if they need something changing. In general I would say that unless the yard is doing something obviously silly, turning out a clipped horse in a summer sheet in -10 degrees, or in 450g at +10 degrees, then probably what they are doing is not 'wrong' but just not what the owner might have chosen.

 

[Arzada]

She was irritated that the staff could not always make the 'correct' decision about which rug to put on the horse (out of a pile on the rug racks), and she had to make sure that the one she wanted was very obvious. Her argument was that the yard is expensive, and the 'service' should therefore be good enough to include decision-making on rugs for full livery horses.

Strewth! The only correct decision will always be hers. The staff are already making decisions, just not her defined correct one! My horse is in a different climate - higher, usually colder. On the rare occasions that he wears a rug (either no fill or 100g) I sometimes think, later on from the comfort of my sofa in a heated room, that maybe the lighter rug would have been better or vice versa. Neither rug is incorrect ie they are both turnouts! The horse is still standing, bright eyed bushy tailed etc when I next visit.

 

[Merrymoles]

My main take from this is that writing the rug weight on in marker is a brilliant idea - I can never remember which of mine are which! We're on DIY so choice of rug isn't an issue for us. I prefer to under-rug but my newish boy is a warm horse, against all my expectations, so that's fine.

It very much depends on the individual horse, how much grass and/or forage they have available and what the conditions are so I think the yard staff have enough juggling to do for it not always to be to the owner's liking. I am quite sure if anyone else was rugging mine, I would disagree at times with their choices. I know many horses who are fine in lightweight rugs in minus temperatures but are miserable if it's tipping down and blowing a hooley. I think she should either live with their decisions or supervise herself.

 

[Tarragon]

Oh, choice of rugs is such a personal thing! I doubt the poor staff member would reliably agree on what you think which rug is best, unless you only had two to choose from, and even then it is iffy.
Plus, they might be making their decision at a different time to you, so are faced with a completely different set of weather parameters to work with.
Just a bit of a ridiculous reaction, I think

 

[ponynutz]

I’d expect my dad to know and hed expect me to know for his (free full livery for each other) but not a random person who works on a yard and has 30+ horses to take care of, of which they have no knowledge beyond the jobs theyre paid to do. Grooms have it hard enough without that outlook on life imo.

 

[EventingMum]

We are not far away from OP's yard and will alter rugs according to the weather or if owners leave specific instructions. If we feel an appropriate rug isn't available we will contact the owner. Our liveries all seem happy with this arrangement. I feel the number of horses on the yard is irrelevant as the staffing levels should reflect the number of horses in their care.

 

[Caol Ila]

It is very personal to you and your horse. I would not want the yard to make that decision.

Fin wears no rug (I’ll give you £10 if you can get a rug on him) and Hermosa wears a rain sheet when it’s above 8 or 9 degrees and wet, a 50 when it’s below 6, and a 200 (I’d prefer a 100 but it’s what the local tack shop had) if it’s stupid like -8.