Yard owner banning other peoples hay/haylage?

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jenni999

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My livery yard owner is trying to stop DIY liveries bringing in their own hay and haylage. We have always been able to buy our own in the past. The yard produce their own which is not great quality, which is why people buy in.

Someone was told that this is not legal. Apparently another yard in the area tried to do this and failed as they were told it was illegal to force horse owners to use a specific hay or haylage.

Does anyone have any experience of this type of behaviour? We are allowed to feed whatever hard feed and use whatever type of bedding we want.
 
Don't know about legalities but it is common practice. If the yard produces its own hay/haylage, liveries are generally expected theirs and not buy from other sources. Some yards also require you to buy feed via them.
 
It is not illegal. They are changing your contract, but they can do that. If you do not want to accept the change you either have to persuade them otherwise or go elsewhere.
 
The yard I keep my horses at make there own hay, its included in our livery price. If we choose to use something else and pay for it thats our choice. What we feed our horses is up to us.

Could it be a storage issue maybe?
 
marydoll said:
As long as the quality is to my standards i wouldnt mind, but Id leave a yard before id feed ****e haylage/hay to my horses, i feel very strongly about that
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Agree with this. Fortunately, mine are pretty good critics of hay and let me know if its not up to their standard.

If its a good yard and the grazing is well managed, the quality of the hay tends to be good too.
 
"His yard - his rules". It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, who's going to take legal action? Assuming someone did & they even won do you think it would be a nice friendly yard to stay on?

If the haylage isn't any good & he has this rule then there is nothing stopping you moving.
 
I have been on a number of yards were you could only buy hay/straw from the yard. All yards that had this didn't even make there own they bought in and then added x amount.
 
It actually isn't so unreasonable. I spent a few hours last night going round with the knapsack sprayer zapping docks. The ragwort is virtually extinct here, but not elsewhere. I'd not be too keen on liveries introducing weeds seeds by buying in hay from dubious sources. OK, the bought in hay is "ragwort free", but what about the weed seeds? It's a bit like bring in new horses without bothering to worm or jab them. Would you be happy with that?
 
Very common, I was at one yard when my horse was refusing to eat the hay and dropping weight rapidly but they wouldn't let me have anything else delivered.

Luckily the yard changed hands and new owners would get in any type of hay or haylage you wanted though they did mark it up.

Others like someone mentioned include it in the livery price and let you get other stuff in as it means you've paid for theirs and don't use it so they get money for nothing.

If you've got a contract they would have to advise if they changed the terms but they can do and if it's always been like that then you have to accept it.

It's the sort of thing that is worth asking when you check out new yards.
 
It's not illegal at all. Their yard, their rules. Quite often its because they rely on the income to top up the rent. Ours are on cheap farm diy. He does a late cut of hay which is fab for natives & very cheap. If someone warns him in advance they need richer hay or haylage, that's fine & he can sell the excess elsewhere, otherwise come spring he's left with old hay to sell even cheaper. Same with the straw, plus as he charges little more than cost for rent, whoever uses most pays more towards muck heap removal/ management.
 
It may not be illegal but it's equivalent to a holiday firm requiring you to purchase their insurance or a car manufacturer invalidating a warranty if you have it serviced elsewhere really :mad:

It'll be interesting to see what happens after the crap summer we're experiencing and they find there's not enough home grown hay to go round - I bet they change their mind then :rolleyes:
 
NoseyPosey said:
It may not be illegal but it's equivalent to a holiday firm requiring you to purchase their insurance or a car manufacturer invalidating a warranty if you have it serviced elsewhere really :mad:

It'll be interesting to see what happens after the crap summer we're experiencing and they find there's not enough home grown hay to go round - I bet they change their mind then :rolleyes:
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Its not tho is it, because there are genuine issues
i) storage of everyones diffent hay/ haylage - most yards there isnt enough space for separate forage storage areas, even if there is for hard feeds.
ii) introduction of weed seeds
iii) arguments when one livery takes a fancy to the super duper forage stash of another livery and slices start walking

whereas with holiday companies its just a profit thing.
nb I also think the idea of a yard owner making a profit shouldnt be a crime.

You have free choice to go along with using the yard hay or to move to a yard which doesnt have this rule. Or even horror of horrors discuss with YO why they have brought in the rule. I do think they should discuss it with liveries beforehand, but if they dont, it does stop liveries asking to discuss it with them.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Its not tho is it, because there are genuine issues
i) storage of everyones diffent hay/ haylage - most yards there isnt enough space for separate forage storage areas, even if there is for hard feeds.
ii) introduction of weed seeds
iii) arguments when one livery takes a fancy to the super duper forage stash of another livery and slices start walking
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Disagree with i) because if there's enough room for home grown there should be enough for brought-in. If iii) is happening then that's a whole different issue altogether & could happen with other feed & tack etc.

And all these issues will magically disappear when there's the hay harvest is way below what's expected this year?
 
NoseyPosey said:
It may not be illegal but it's equivalent to a holiday firm requiring you to purchase their insurance or a car manufacturer invalidating a warranty if you have it serviced elsewhere really :mad:
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Actually I think it's more like a pub or restaurant not allowing you to bring your own food and drink. What they offer may be poor quality and may not suit your dietary needs but that's the way it goes.

Having said that if I had a horse that did have special needs e.g can only have haylage, it would be good customer service to discuss how they could accomodate this.
 
NoseyPosey said:
Disagree with i) because if there's enough room for home grown there should be enough for brought-in.
Errm, not really, there isn't room for the bought in forage, because the home grown one is taking up the barn :D
And all these issues will magically disappear when there's the hay harvest is way below what's expected this year?
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I would imagine that the YO will simply buy in forage if they run short.

To be honest, I don't see a problem with that rule at all, yes, it might be inconvenient, but the liveries can always vote with their feet.
 
Have you got a clause in your contract that says YO can change the contract at any time without prior warning, and without your agreement?

Bet you havent...
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Its not tho is it, because there are genuine issues
i) storage of everyones diffent hay/ haylage - most yards there isnt enough space for separate forage storage areas, even if there is for hard feeds.
ii) introduction of weed seeds
iii) arguments when one livery takes a fancy to the super duper forage stash of another livery and slices start walking

whereas with holiday companies its just a profit thing.
nb I also think the idea of a yard owner making a profit shouldnt be a crime.

You have free choice to go along with using the yard hay or to move to a yard which doesnt have this rule. Or even horror of horrors discuss with YO why they have brought in the rule. I do think they should discuss it with liveries beforehand, but if they dont, it does stop liveries asking to discuss it with them.
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I agree with this.

NoseyPosey said:
Disagree with i) because if there's enough room for home grown there should be enough for brought-in. If iii) is happening then that's a whole different issue altogether & could happen with other feed & tack etc.

And all these issues will magically disappear when there's the hay harvest is way below what's expected this year?
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Of course there isn't room to store bought in forage - where are they supposed to put the hay they made then? Pay to store it somewhere else while their liveries store their extras??

We used to do haylage included with the price of our livery, as we didn't have room to store anymore. I totally agree with the issues of introducing other weeds to the fields via droppings too. I don't disagree with livery owners trying to make a bit of money selling hay and straw either. Livery makes hardly anything.

For those who would insist its not in their contract, and refuse to comply, I think you would find yourself being given notice anyway..
 
martlin said:
Errm, not really, there isn't room for the bought in forage, because the home grown one is taking up the barn
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And the barn magically replenishes itself and is full every day of the year is it?

Given the amount of hay that liveries would buy in compared to stored homegrown I very much doubt there'd be no room at all.
 
Of course it is not illegal. Yard owners are perfectly entitled to stipulate what they will and will not allow to be brought onto their property. There are many reasons they may wish to do this. Other than the weed seed, profits, storage problems, there is also the added hassle of additional deliveries. I don't make my own forage, I buy it in. If I did make my own, then I would want the liveies to use it. Saves all kinds of hassle selling it elsewhere. However, it is largely irrelevant as my liveries are all full or part livery and so I get in all the feed and forage. As it happens, the stuff I buy is top notch from a premium supplier (and at premium prices). I won't source cheaper forage from local farmers as I cannot be certain that it is always ragwort free, and that a guaranteed supply will take me through the winter. If the forage on offer from your yard is poor quality, and i the YO refuses to allow you to buy your own, then I would leave.
 
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NoseyPosey said:
And the barn magically replenishes itself and is full every day of the year is it?

Given the amount of hay that liveries would buy in compared to stored homegrown I very much doubt there'd be no room at all.
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This seems such a silly arguement, if I'm understanding it properly. Are you really saying that the livery owner should not cut their hay, and leave it going to seed in the field to make room for liverie's hay? Yes, at certain times of the year the barn will be empty, but when the hay is cut it is likely to be full to the rafters.. How do you work out the logistics of what space will be available when??

I can understand why it would frustrate liveries if the quality was poor, and I would leave myself then. When we did DIY and our haylage got poor we bought it in. When I had my horse on DIY I loved the fact that hay and straw were on site and I didn't have to chase around for it.
 
Honey08 said:
This seems such a silly arguement, if I'm understanding it properly. Are you really saying that the livery owner should not cut their hay, and leave it going to seed in the field to make room for liverie's hay? Yes, at certain times of the year the barn will be empty, but when the hay is cut it is likely to be full to the rafters.. How do you work out the logistics of what space will be available when??
I can understand why it would frustrate liveries if the quality was poor, and I would leave myself then. When we did DIY and our haylage got poor we bought it in. When I had my horse on DIY I loved the fact that hay and straw were on site and I didn't have to chase around for it.
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Of course I'm not suggesting a yard should sacrifice their own hay for brought-in but what's wrong with "if we've got room you can buy your own" especially when a barn will stop being full to the rafters as soon as it starts getting used.

When we were at a livery yard we were allowed to bring in our own which we did as it was a hell of a lot cheaper & far better quality. As word got round the YO started making it harder to bring in our own when it was clear that others were unhappy with the standard of homegrown & started to do the same. They never actually said we couldn't do it but it was clear they weren't happy. Tactics included suggesting another livery was stealing our hay & claiming our hay was contravening health & safety laws. Which is just one of the reasons we rent our own stables now.
 
Of course storage is an issue. Ours will let you get your own if there's a good reason & he's warned in advance, but even then its usually limited to a small order, such as a dozen small bales or one large as theres simply no where to put it.
 
The bottom line is, the YO is relying on making some money on forage sales, if you desperately want to buy in your own, why not suggest you pay for storing it? After all, you wouldn't rent storage unit for free, would you?
 
NoseyPosey said:
Of course I'm not suggesting a yard should sacrifice their own hay for brought-in but what's wrong with "if we've got room you can buy your own" especially when a barn will stop being full to the rafters as soon as it starts getting used.

When we were at a livery yard we were allowed to bring in our own which we did as it was a hell of a lot cheaper & far better quality. As word got round the YO started making it harder to bring in our own when it was clear that others were unhappy with the standard of homegrown & started to do the same. They never actually said we couldn't do it but it was clear they weren't happy. Tactics included suggesting another livery was stealing our hay & claiming our hay was contravening health & safety laws. Which is just one of the reasons we rent our own stables now.
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People probably don't want people using their barns because their own hay and equipment (we keep all our lawnmowers and tools etc in ours) is stored in there, and if you let people access it things start to walk...

I don't blame you for renting your own place. Its the best thing to do to get everything exactly how you want it. Now imagine if a load of people came onto that yard and started demanding you move all you stuff around for them, and change all your fields around etc - all for a profit of about £10/week... Thats what is like when you do DIY! You try and do your best for liveries, but you can't please everyone all of the time, and you have to set rules that work for you... In the end we just stopped doing livery. We have seven empty stables, and lose about £50/week in profit, but its worth it for the peace and quiet and not to have to worry about all their problems!

Doing DIY is hard work, people don't realise!
 
I would not be happy for my YO (or anyone else) to dictate to me what I can and can't feed my horses. I get where yard owners are coming from but I personally think that they sign up for this when they take on DIY liveries. Part and full liveries fine but not for DIY.
 
I was a yard owner, had lots of liveries and managed my land very very carefully to provide fantastic weed free grazing all year round as well as good quality forage. I paid the mortgage and rates on the farm, so it was mine to store what I wanted to. My liveries had to buy forage from me, I would not allow any other hay / haylage to be brought in as I did not want to introduce weeds from someone elses land and in my costs I costed in all the maintenance of the grazing and hay/haylage. I weed sprayed, I rolled, I fenced, I fertilised, and I remove all the muck that is the by product of horses eating the hay/haylage So in order to cover those costs I needed to sell my hay/haylage.

Why should I provide storage for my liveries to keep their hay? if I were to do that then surely I would be totally within my rights to charge liveries muck disposal as their horses were not contributing to the costs of the maintenance and disposal.

Some liveries really do live in a dream world where livery yards are their for their convenience. At the end of the day a livery yard is a business, their rules are what counts, not the feeling of injustice that some liveries seem to have. If you don;t like the rules, buy your own place and have liveries, I can assure you you would soon change your views.

I no longer have liveries, the minority spoil everything for the majority and financially it is simply not worth the hassle. I had some fantastic liveries, and some utter whinging muppets, who made all the other liveries lives hell.

If you do not like the rules, leave.
 
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