Yard owner banning other peoples hay/haylage?

I suppose, if a yard owner was selling their own hay to DIY clients by the bale (as opposed to inclusive in a livery arrangement), one could argue that they have changed the nature of their work from equestrian to retail, with all the planning and business use implications - it would be a very fine point though.
 
littlelegs said:
It's not illegal at all. Their yard, their rules. Quite often its because they rely on the income to top up the rent. Ours are on cheap farm diy. Same with the straw, plus as he charges little more than cost for rent, whoever uses most pays more towards muck heap removal/ management.
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This. My YO doesn't say you can't buy hay/straw from outside, but you can't store it in the big barn and instead must store it in your feed bay (which isn't huge) . . . or pay rent for a container in the lorry park . . . or store it in your trailer/lorry.

If a YO is charging a reasonable (as in not extortionate) amount of money for livery, he/she has to find ways to make a little extra . . . and charging liveries for their straw and hay is a great way to do it. It's worth it for me as a livery because I don't have the hassle factor of having to buy hay and bedding in (or store it) . . . plus, I get to keep my horse on a nice, well-maintained yard and YO is happy to do jobs like putting up saddle racks, stall chains, mend fencing, sort out special requests like building a dedicated hay soaking area, cut and top fields as appropriate, dig out drains, mend water troughs . . . at no extra cost.

It's swings and roundabouts.

P
 
I mostly agree with putasocinit's comments.

Yes you can move theoretically if you don't like the T's and C's but YO have you over a barrel with the constant threat of "well you can always leave if you don't like it" but you can't always leave that easily and it's pretty upsetting for horses to keep moving them. Liveries may be a PITA - so I say don't run a livery - I manage people and they are also a PITA but it's my job and I deal with it or I move on to a job that suits me better.

I would rather pay extra so that you don't force me to buy crap hay and have the freedom to choose if necessary than be forced to feed my horse poor quality forage, luckily I've never come across this and on the whole I've been lbe ucky to able to afford to be on relatively decent yards that are not wholly unreasonable.
 
martlin said:
I don't do DIY, so not quite sure what I am arguing here :) but anyway:
You can't please everybody, and I am perfectly aware that the way my yard runs won't suit all people, but I don't make compromises, because then it wouldn't suit me. And if it wouldn't suit me, I would start to resent the very people my business relies upon. As it is, I only accept for livery horses who's owners I think I can get on with, if not like and socialize with :) If I make a mistake in my judgement, I simply hand the person their notice to leave and replace them with another client.
I'm happy, my liveries are mostly happy and if they are not happy about something, they can come and talk to me in the first instance, and if no solution can be found, they are more than welcome to find another yard.
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Youre right, it is your yard,and you can run it as you see fit,:) but im with the poster who says they would feel they were continually under the hammer at your yard, in the event there was a disagreement you'd just pull the " get out " card, i wonder if your liveries are as happy as you think they are, because Your comment " i dont compromise " speaks volumes to me. if i were looking at livery yards " I would not even consider looking at your yard as a client, and im pretty sure most of the people i know who livery would feel the the same way. My apologies if im wrong, but you sound quite dictatorial, and that might work for you but it wouldnt for me and quite a few others i know.
If im paying good money for horses and a spaces on a yard, i dont expect anyone to dictate what i feed and how i care for my horses, i would expect discussion, and yes, comprimise from a yard owner :)
 
marydoll said:
Youre right, it is your yard,and you can run it as you see fit,:) but im with the poster who says they would feel they were continually under the hammer at your yard, in the event there was a disagreement you'd just pull the " get out " card, i wonder if your liveries are as happy as you think they are, because Your comment " i dont compromise " speaks volumes to me. if i were looking at livery yards " I would not even consider looking at your yard as a client, and im pretty sure most of the people i know who livery would feel the the same way. My apologies if im wrong, but you sound quite dictatorial, and that might work for you but it wouldnt for me and quite a few others i know.
If im paying good money for horses and a spaces on a yard, i dont expect anyone to dictate what i feed and how i care for my horses, i would expect discussion, and yes, comprimise from a yard owner :)
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Not at all dictatorial, just super clear from the way go what the rules and arrangements are. As it happens, there is an abundance of yards in the area, quite a few of them with vacancies, so people have plenty of choice. My yard is full with a waiting list, go figure :)
I don't compromise as in, I don't do mates rates, special arrangements, barter deals and such. I accept ''high maintenance'' and ''challenging'' horses, not so keen on high maintenance people, though :D

As to liveries funding my hobby... well, it is a business and yes, it brings a return, I am not running at a loss, but it isn't a gold mine either.

If you look after your horse, can communicate requests in a civilised manner and have a modicum of respect for my privacy, it is rather difficult to fall out with me. I don't socialise with the clients too much, beyond polite chit chat about weather, horses etc, so your views on Bill Clinton are no concern of mine.
 
Absolutely ladies, just wish there was a way we could get the message out there to all the what could be really wonderful livery yards if the YO's would just work with the liveries instead of against them and then it would all be swings and roundabouts but with no broken down cars in the way.

Surprising how many posters said they got yelled or screamed at for asking about something or other, who gives YO's or anyone for that matter the right to yell at anyone, esp if they dont want to have it given back, but then they can pull the "get out of jail card".

Those that want it all their own way and those that find DIYers a PITA are the ones who are control freaks and dont actually want anyone else around to interfere with their things but like the money the liveries bring in.

If livery yards are going to end up closing down because the average person cannot afford full livery or actually wants to own a horse for all that goes with owning a horse not just to get on it once a day or stroke its face because everything else has been done for it already.

Then what is going to happen to future generations how are they going to learn about the pleasures of owning and riding horses and we might as well have a huge cull because there will be so many horses without homes, come on YO's not all of us have been lucky to be able to get some land in our lives, we were all put on earth to serve a purpose some of us it was to give us a roof to put over our horses heads, thank you, but keep the moaning to yourself :)
 
Martlin - I think I would like your yard because you are clear about what you can and can't offer and are not fickle by the sounds of it. That's all I want when it comes down to it both YO and client know the score - much easier all round. :)
 
martlin said:
Not at all dictatorial, just super clear from the way go what the rules and arrangements are. As it happens, there is an abundance of yards in the area, quite a few of them with vacancies, so people have plenty of choice. My yard is full with a waiting list, go figure :)
I don't compromise as in, I don't do mates rates, special arrangements, barter deals and such. I accept ''high maintenance'' and ''challenging'' horses, not so keen on high maintenance people, though :D

As to liveries funding my hobby... well, it is a business and yes, it brings a return, I am not running at a loss, but it isn't a gold mine either.

If you look after your horse, can communicate requests in a civilised manner and have a modicum of respect for my privacy, it is rather difficult to fall out with me. I don't socialise with the clients too much, beyond polite chit chat about weather, horses etc, so your views on Bill Clinton are no concern of mine.
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Ah i see what you mean now, :D i agree with you re the mates rates, and deals etc, youre quite right not to compromise on that. I also agree that communicating civilly is a right that shouldnt be compromised and it should swing both ways.
You do compromise your privacy though the moment you run a business from your home, but i agree, you shouldnt have folks banging on your door or phoning at all times of the day and night, this communicating is a great thing :D
 
I can honestly say I have never had to feed substandard hay to my horses. As others have said, what happens is that if the hay is poor, the YO feeds it to their own stock and sells his good stuff to the liveries or buys in.

If liveries don't like the rules, then they can go elsewhere. Contracts are a rarity and basically, if the YO finds you more trouble than you're worth, you walk. And Vice Versa.
 
Martlin now you have given a bigger picture I too wud like to be on yr yard. I think the problem with yards is yo's get Marty with some liveries and change the rules as they go along, hence original pot about hay, just needed to discuss it first will liveries and get everyone's feelings then go from there. the bill Clinton ws an example so don't take it personally, amazing how man can twist things because they don't listen or read everything said and digest it before answering.

Horse rider I find your answer very blinkered, so if your child didn't get on with a certain teacher you wud just move schools I don't think so.

It is easy for yo's and ld owners to say just move but I think you need to walk in someone else's shoes before you make judgement, just my opinion.
 
Putasocinit I find your posts a bit aggressive towards livery owners! Nobody has said they hated liveries - a few of us said we stopped doing livery because we found it hard work for very little return. Your posts seem to imply that livery owners are put on this earth to serve horse owners, and that they should do all the bending to meet the horse owners needs - its a two way street. Yes you do get threads on here with people telling all kinds of stories about being thrown off their yards, sometimes if you remember their names, later, you see that half their lives are a drama, and wonder if they could be a factor! Not always, but sometimes. I don't do livery anymore, but lots of my friends do, and everyone knows which people in the area to watch out for. These people often "have to move my horse" a few times a year.

When I had liveries I did allsorts of things above and beyond DIY. I escorted my overhorsed and nervous livery on hacks, even though I really needed my event horse to be doing faster work to keep fit, I hosed legs when horses were lame and owners were at work, I gave free coaching, I helped them warm up at shows. Hubby repaired things they broke on their lorries and trailers. I supervised kids that I didn't think should be on their own when their mothers dumped them at the yard for the day. I made up Xmas stockings for them and their horses, no end of stuff. We did the yard when it was snowy and certain lazy liveries couldn't be bothered to walk the half mile that they couldn't drive. Sometimes the more you do the more people walk over you. Our two or three liveries didn't really make us a penny when you add up the extra maintenance and time. In the end we got to really resenting them, and when they left never filled their boxes.

It wasn't a business. We charged £25/wk for a box on a new built yard with 9 stables, six horses and 20 acres, including haylage - hardly expensive.. We may have made £5/week per horse. We mainly took on liveries to have a herd around for our two horses. The haylage one year wasn't that good (summer of 2008 - bit like this one) and we had to buy another source in and sell the rough haylage to a local cattle farmer.

If storage is an issue, why not keep your hay at home in your garage or garden shed? Someone at my friend's yard rented a second stable to keep all her tools and hay seperate... Thats another option.

Perhaps I've been lucky, in 30 years of working with and having horses, I've never been at a yard that had unfeedable forage, nor seen one. Perhaps those that have have been unlucky!
 
Honey08 your place sounds lovely, and how nice to be so helpful, what a shame it didnt work out. I like being at my own place, but when at livery, i got the horses wee treat bags for their christmas and had a wee battery power christmas tree, i still put it up at christmas :D
I have experienced the best and worst of haylage im afraid, but forage is something id never compromise on.
 
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I just wanted to point out, probably unnecessarily ;) but it is a bit of a pet subject of mine:
Owning land, livery yard etc involves I suppose a bit of luck, but mainly, truly, it involves a giant mortgage hanging round my neck and A LOT of work. We bought the farm not because we are privileged, but because we worked hard, sacrificed and saved money, gathered a deposit and were brave enough to risk mortgaging ourselves to the hilt.
I compromise many things in life to be able to do what I do, and when it comes to it, I wonder how many of you would be willing to swap their life for mine, warts and all :)
 
I think ive been lucky, i rent a place 2 mins from my house, from a farmer and his wife, who i have known for years, my own barn with 4 stables, floodlit sand and rubber arena, more than enough good grazing for my horses, shower and solarium :D, i got it as a sole let, funnily enough, because they didnt want a group of liveries, and they were very picky who they let to.
I get very good quality haylage/hay from another local farmer who brings it to me as i need it, for that i am grateful ( my landlord doesnt make any now) a shame as his was always good. I appreciate what ive got every day, and know how lucky i am. :)
 
At my current yard all hay and bedding must be bought off YO but I don't mind as I knew this when I moved there and the price is alright (esp if buy a big haylage bale and share with other liveries) and the quality is alright. I even get my straw delivered right into my stable which suits me just fine :) If it's rubbishy stuff and they won't let you buy in then that must be extremely frustrating and I would definitely take it up with them
 
I do get a bit peeved with the idea that we own land because we are lucky :eek: Sister and I bought this place so that we could have the horses at home. To do that we sold our seperate houses, made the huge compromise of sharing a house, both work responsible jobs, with many hours and pay the mortgage appropriate to a house and land. Not much luck involved, just hard work and planning. We also get to do all the fun jobs like fence mending, stable mending etc, whatever the weather. Gosh aren't we lucky.
 
Can I just say from a livery's point of view, I PREFER to be on a yard where forage and bedding are supplied by the YO.
The yard I am at now is fantastic !
First of all, it is just under 2 miles from where I live, and the walk there and back is beautiful.
The 100ish acres of grazing is perfect for my 2 native ponies. I'm on DIY grass livery, but have the use of all facilities. If either of my ponies needs to come in, I can use a stable, haylage and bedding in return for helping the YO around the yard.
When I bring my ponies in to handle and groom (they are both youngsters), it isn't a problem to give them a haynet or pop them in a box. I always tidy up behind me.
I have just backed my 4yo Welsh Cob, and my YO's grin when I told her was as big as the one on MY face when I first got on my mare !
There is plenty of storage for tack and rugs, and a lovely big feed storage area.
My YO is lovely. I have been through some extremely difficult times in the last year and she has been nothing but supportive. There are no words to describe how much I appreciate everything she has done for me.
I wouldn't change yards in a million years because of everything this yard, and the YO, have given me in the last year.
I'd name the yard AND YO if it were allowed, as I am proud to be a part of that yard.
This is from someone who has been involved with horses for 35 years, 15 of which I worked as a groom on dealing/showjumping/livery yards, riding schools, pony trekking, a season on a hunt yard, and have owned 8 horses of my own and had full care of another 3.
I wouldn't change my livery yard for anything in the world ! :)
 
All of us who have horses at home are lucky we are privileged yes it hard work and yes it all has to paid for but we are never the less very lucky many people work very hard and never get to keep their horses at home .
 
Its very nice having your own place and being able to look out on your horses, but is constant work and maintenance, and isn't that cheap!

We've just been away and sent the horses up to my friend's yard on full livery for a week, and we have both come home dreaming of letting our yard out and leaving them up there on full livery!

At the moment the list of jobs include, a leaky roof needs mending, the gutters want cleaning out, a whole fenceline that needs replacing, the whole yard needs creosoting, and the grass on the drive to the yard needs mowing and strimming round the trees.. Thats on top of the jobs that need doing at the house!! Living the dream is not a rest!

Also - most of my liveries had cars that cost more than a field and field shelter would have cost. I drive round in an old banger..
 
it's absolutely ture , I seriously I estimated the cost and labour it takes to maintain my own yard and have a quiet laugh when people in liverys complain about what they are charged as I can't see where the profit is on what people are paying round here.
However I still maintain its a privilege to have them at home no one else here away from all that livery yard silliness I would never ever have a livery people often ask me even good friends but no way.
 
putasocinit said:
Horse rider I find your answer very blinkered, so if your child didn't get on with a certain teacher you wud just move schools I don't think so.

It is easy for yo's and ld owners to say just move but I think you need to walk in someone else's shoes before you make judgement, just my opinion.
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I can't see the relevance of comparing your child's education with a horse and a livery yard, but I suppose demanding people might never be happy anywhere.

Being a 'good' livery means that you add something to the yard rather than demand. DIY brings very little reward for YO's, which is why so many yards stop taking DIY'ers.

If you are helpful, reasonable and easy going, you'll probably find your YO will listen when there is a problem that could be resolved with a bit of give and take. If you stamp your feet everytime something inconveniences you, you might find your horse tied up at the gate when you come down one day.

Yards I liveried on have been lovely, but, yes, I have moved when rules/conditions changed and there was a conflict with the needs of particular horses I had at the time, usually something like restricted turnout for a very young or arthritic horse. However, each YO has always said when we went that they would be very happy to have us back if things changed.
 
Horse rider everything I have said has been hypothetical non of it is actual in my case, but I have personally witnessed some very silly arguments resulting in good people leaving yards and 9/10 times it was because the yo had a hang over or there was a pathetic livery who had learned in life to act the innocent flutter eyelids person who manages to get everyone running around after them and basically causing trouble to get their own way, too many like that today.

Lest us remember a livery yard is a business and should be treated as such, we cannot like everybody but if a livery is a pleasant person, who pays on time the fact you don't like them because they talk to their horse and their hair is green should not be why they should be treated badly, this unfortunately is becoming vry common (you will no doubt have something to say about my inclusion of green hair not being relevant) and that is why livery yards will continue to not make a big profit because of the bad rep yo's are getting (there is a thred running at the moment it is good reading).

Horse owners will pay more for good facilities incl turn out decent hay and a nice friendly environment, without yo,s with attitudes and rules being changed all the time as and when it suits. I don't think any livery actually has a temper tantrum but sure as I sit here now yo's certainly do.
 
Honey08 this is not my thread I am just responding to it as I see fit, I am one of those liveries that's goes the extra mile, sweeping up after others cos I had finished mine, off loading deliveries, repairing fences, buying Christmas pressies, giving tack to those that needed it cos I had it but didn't use it, but actually because I have been a self sufficient livery I have found people have become jealous of me and no I have never had a tantrum at a yard or anywhere in my time of life.

I can't see how having a debate can be construed as being aggressive unless you are on the losing side? I never say nasty things to people and yet I have to accept horrible things said to me like my horse is fat, well he may be on the fat side 6 months box rest after being hit by a motor bike, but he will lose weight, I on the other hand could say nasty things like the person doesn't know how to ride but I mind my own business.

Funny really how people think they know a person when they have never met them, do not socialise with them or even live with them but yet they can make judgement. This goes for those liveries who you be aware of and yet there might have been a very valid reason why they have had to leave a yard, or they were going through a bad patch in their life, no body is perfect except Jesus and look what happened to him.

Let us have the ability in life to agree to disagree, can you imagine if we were all the same, the world would surely have ended, the is good in positive and negative it what makes things happen.
 
I suppose that's why I like HHO. So many different experiences.

My own experience over many years and yards has been so different -I realise how lucky I've been now. Great YO's, fair and professional, some were characters, but brilliant with it.

No liveries with green hair yet, just pink and blue. Fortunately, not discriminated because of it.

TBF, thinking about it though, I have viewed some yards where the YO ran the yard in a way I knew I wouldn't be comfortable with, so obviously never moved the horses in. Perhaps that's why I've avoided the type of YO you mention.
 
We are finally seeing both sides, yay, you are lucky, you all are for having you own place, had I been born and lived in the uk I wud have bought my own place but as we came here when we were in our 40's that will not be possible.

I got to the yrd one morning to find someone had drawn a big yes bigger than a 50p round spot in red between my horses eyes in permanent marker, he is white, it apparently was a star, no it is my property and don't deface it, but I still didn't make a scene.

Another yard I was on, I ended up giving my hay to 5 livery horses who were supposed to be fed by the yo in the morning and they were only doing this at 11am, horses had nothing since 5pm the previous night, we all left the yard, yes there are some scary ones out there.
 
Hopefully this will be my last post on this thread, some of you might have read my thread "should I stay or go" well I am staying the yo and I had a good chat, it turned out, yes wait for it, her so called friends because they were jealous that she had me around to help her were winding her up about things like, if I wasn't there then she cud let her horses use the field shelters etcand this was playing on her mind until she stopped and had a good think and realised she had more to lose with me going than me staying.

I am the livery who is supplying her with meals at the moment cos her oven is broken and it is the weekend and she is in her70's and I am not asking for discount on my livery rate. I have also bought us haulage to share in winter should there be a shortage and her hay runs out, that's me the livery from hell, I don't think so.

Bye for now until next time tune in to HHForum
 
Thought it was my last post - the mark on my horse was at a competition yard very well known, the hay was part of a racehorse training yard, so how can you tell what it will be like, how do you know your oh is the right one etc etc
 
I personally don't agree with yard owners insisting that we buy hay/haylage, bedding or feed from them. We are paying rent for a stable and grazing and in doing so we should expect that stable and grazing to be safe and adequate, but when it comes to feed and bedding, what you buy and where from should be an individual choice for the benefit/health of your horse (and yourself), as when you are told to buy products from the YO they are often limited and overpriced. The YO could make money by charging extra for manege use, horse shower, livery services etc, but to dictate what you feed you horse and which bedding you use, and overcharging for it, when it may not be the most appropriate for your horse doesn't seem right. OK abide by the rules of the yard, but surely we don't need to be dictated to regarding our horses' management. As for storage issues, perhaps YOs should consider if they have adequate space for individual storage before they start taking on horses.
 
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