yard owner retaining tack

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Lolabay

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Any advice would be grateful

I moved my three horses to a yard 6weeks ago,on the verbal understanding the yo would fed and turn out mornings,as the yard is a good half hours drive away. The yo unfortunately was kicked by one of my horses when she was taking 2 of them out together (despite me warning her not to take 2 out together) especially as yo is 76years old.she then refused to turn my horses out for me,so now im having to go up every morning as well as evenings.

Anyway I told her 2 weeks ago im leaving in 2weeks time,and now she is saying i need to give her a months livery cost,even though we had no contract and as to my understanding she broke her part of the verbal agreement by not turning horses out,she has now locked up my tack and wont give it to me unless i give her the rest of the months livery.
Can she legally keep all my tack? which far out weighs what the last 2weeks livery cost would be
 
Oh for goodness sake. Pay her what you owe - of course you have to pay your full livery costs.

You can't have it both ways - no contract / verbal agreement....

And yes, she can keep your tack.
 
No not if you have no contract stating notice terms, quite what you do about it I don't know, in all my years at yards I have seen people leave with no notice and not pay bills for months, the livery owner has always lost out, as far as I know you cannot withhold someones property unless you have legal notice to do so, so do you have a friendly solicitor who could put something in writing?
 
As you have no written contract (or anything that will stand up in court) then how often do you pay your livery? If it is weekly then you can give a week's notice, if it is monthly then it must be a month's notice. Locking up your tack falls under the statutory definition of theft, however for the sake of wanting to leave quickly and inexpensively I'd just pay up and go.
 
Ohhhh............ I must say I've got a bit of sympathy for the YO: poor old duck, she's 76 years old FFS!!! And still trying to run a yard and mess around with horses, she must either be as poor as a church mouse and having to do it, or else just can't live without horses around her.

TBH OP, I wouldn't ever expect anyone who is shall we say as long in the tooth as this to be in the position of running a yard and doing all of the practical work without help; that said, I realise that she may well be a perfectly fit and capable 76 yo, BUT............. nonetheless.......

Personally I'd pay up and look sweet; and then leave with sweetness in the air. That way, if the poor old love drops down dead in the next six months you won't be feeling guilty..... :)

Sorry, wasn't intending to take the YO's side, but couldn't help thinking that I certainly don't want to be running a yard when I'm nearly 80!!! Perish the thought.
 
The yo is actually doing it for her son,and thats who I thought would be doing all the turning out.hence why im reluctant to pay the full month,when her son doesnt do anything to help
 
Pay the month, fgs.

As to the YO's age, I reckon my last one is at least that age and tough as old boots: I think it would take a direct strike to knock him off!
 
Hits a nerve with me I'm afraid. I had a livery up and leave two days into a month and refused to give me her months notice money. She still owes me a months notice ( full livery so a fair amount) to this day. It really does affect us yard owners when people don't pay what is due. And yes, she did have a contract and livery was due monthly in advance. Pay what you owe and move on.
 
Lolabay said:
The yo is actually doing it for her son,and thats who I thought would be doing all the turning out.hence why im reluctant to pay the full month,when her son doesnt do anything to help
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That's nothing to with you - that's their own private arrangement.
 
If you gave notice two weeks ago and are leaving in a fortnight (which presumably you're paying for) surely you have given a month's notice? How much time after your leaving date does she want you to pay for?
 
The OP has sidestepped the question of how the rent is paid. If it is monthly, she must give a month's notice or pay a month's rent in lieu.

No, YO cannot retain property and the strict legal course would be to ask the police to accompany you and go and collect it. Tell the police that you fear for your safety as the YO is over 70 and they will understand as we oldies can be dangerous! :D Alternatively, raise a small claim in detinue which would at least entertain the magistrate.

Having said that, all I used to do was let grazing and I reckon most of the horse owners in the area probably owe me money -- which is why I don't do it any more! I certainly wouldn't be taking horses in or out for anyone and, if I did, I'd expect the horse owner to be very very grateful and act accordingly. Another nail in the reputation of horse owners generally, I'd say.
 
Personally I would be mortified that my horse kicked a 76 year old regardless of the circumstances and I would pay up, leave and draw a line under it
 
WelshD said:
Personally I would be mortified that my horse kicked a 76 year old regardless of the circumstances and I would pay up, leave and draw a line under it
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Exactly this, and I certainly wouldn't have expected her to carry on turning out for me after she had been kicked. Just pay the notice and find a more suitable yard
 
Am I missing something?

The story as I understand it is that the OP contacted for a livery service at a price. As part of that contract she stipulated that the horse should be led out one at a time.

The yard staff attempted to lead the horses out together and a person was kicked because of their failure to follow safe procedures and the owners instructions.

The yard now refuses to honour their contract and the OP has been put to considerable trouble and expense to cover the service that they will not provide.

I can't see any reason in this situation why any notice is required at all???
 
I think expecting a 76 year old to make two journeys to turn out when it could be done in one trip is also a bit unfair, she had every right to refuse to handle a horse that has kicked her.
 
I think paying notice can be implied if no paperwork has be done so OP if you want what to wait and go to court and fight it out that's your choice but personally I would pay the notice and move on .
 
ycbm said:
Am I missing something?

The story as I understand it is that the OP contacted for a livery service at a price. As part of that contract she stipulated that the horse should be led out one at a time.

The yard staff attempted to lead the horses out together and a person was kicked because of their failure to follow safe procedures and the owners instructions.

The yard now refuses to honour their contract and the OP has been put to considerable trouble and expense to cover the service that they will not provide.

I can't see any reason in this situation why any notice is required at all???
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This

Also I must say that Im a little shocked people are condoning theft!!!

OP if it were me I would contact the police and ask them to accompany you to get your tack.

However if you would prefer the quieter less confrontational option would be to just pay the old fart and find a livery yard that conducts itself with more professionalism
 
ycbm said:
Am I missing something?

The story as I understand it is that the OP contacted for a livery service at a price. As part of that contract she stipulated that the horse should be led out one at a time.

The yard staff attempted to lead the horses out together and a person was kicked because of their failure to follow safe procedures and the owners instructions.

The yard now refuses to honour their contract and the OP has been put to considerable trouble and expense to cover the service that they will not provide.

I can't see any reason in this situation why any notice is required at all???
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Agree with this.
 
touchstone said:
I think expecting a 76 year old to make two journeys to turn out when it could be done in one trip is also a bit unfair, she had every right to refuse to handle a horse that has kicked her.
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Yes but her age isn't relevant to the contract and OP didn't think it would be her doing it anyway and op stated that the horses be taken out one at a time so that should be part of the terms of the contract
 
The livery made one distinct request which wasn't followed, so I've no sympathy for the YO. It was their choice to ignore the request and they suffered the consequences.

If the livery had two horses that (for example) couldn't be brought out together cause they kicked eachother, and the YO had ignored and caused one horse to break the others leg with a kick, then people would be on the liveries side I'd imagine.

However i'd just pay up and leave. I'd probably take it as a lesson about moving horses to a yard where a proper management structure wasn't in place.
 
Just another point to make.I pay monthly.however had only been there 2 weeks when my horse kicked her.
I did query why she took 2 at a time
there was no verbal agreement regarding a months notice
the only agreement verbally we had was that she would feed and turn out
The other thing in my horses defence is according to quite a few witnesses it wasn't the horses fault.as the horse didn't deliberately kick her.it was as the horse cantered off bucking that this women got kicked
I don't blame her for refusing to turn them out.however she does have a son who could turn out. It's cost me a lot in fuel and time the last 2wks
 
Pay what they'r asking, then leave. As someone who has managed livery yards, you make your own judgement what you think best. I had someone wanting me to lead their 3 horses out separately, 100 yards to their field. No problem, except after Id taken first one up, it barged the fence down because the other 2 werent with him. After Id tried twice, I started leading 2, then the other one. Fine. Not good enough for owner though, she moved yards.
 
Lolabay said:
Just another point to make.I pay monthly.however had only been there 2 weeks when my horse kicked her.
I did query why she took 2 at a time
there was no verbal agreement regarding a months notice
the only agreement verbally we had was that she would feed and turn out
The other thing in my horses defence is according to quite a few witnesses it wasn't the horses fault.as the horse didn't deliberately kick her.it was as the horse cantered off bucking that this women got kicked
I don't blame her for refusing to turn them out.however she does have a son who could turn out. It's cost me a lot in fuel and time the last 2wks
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If there was a post made by a yard owner along the lines of 'nightmare livery - badly behaved horses means I've been kicked - now they are leaving without paying their notice'

What do you think the response would be?

I do appreciate OP PoV but the horse world is small, just pay the 2 weeks extra you owe, retrieve your tack and leave on good terms.
You never know when things might bite you in the backside in future.
 
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