yard owner retaining tack

OP I would write a formal letter along the lines.
Dear xx
Without prejudice (v important means if it goes further they can't bring this up against you)
Further to our conversation on xx I am confirming that I will be removing my horse from your site on xx.
This has been an emergency decision as :
1) I came to your premises on the understanding that for £x per week I would receive stable, field, access to arena, my horses fed & turned out every morning.
2) On xx I informed you that at no point should my horses be led together.
3) You chose to ignore my instructions & as a result received an injury.
4) You then informed me that you no longer would feed & turn out my horses. This has broken the initial agreement for which I came to your yard.

The change in agreement left me no choice but to find alternative premises as a matter of urgency. I have given you as much notice as possible & will leave with no livery arrears.
You are now claiming my saddle, bridle, boots claiming that I still owe £xx amount of livery & they will not be returned until this fee is paid.
As I never signed any contract or agreed to this unfair charge I have taken advice on the matter. You holding my property is theft & illegal.
Please return my property immediately or I will be forced to take this matter further.

Or

As I have no wish to leave with hostility I am willing to pay £100 goodwill gesture on receiving all of my possessions back. If you do not wish to take up thus offer I will be forced to retract it & take matters further down the legal route.

Obviously I'm no solicitor but it's worth a try, no?
 
applecart14 said:
Common sense dictates that if a livery says something in warning to a YO about their horse as the OP did, it is the YO at fault if he/she chooses to disregard the warning although sadly its quite clearly the owners large mopping up of the mess then made.
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A horse where I keep mine is and always has been a terrible loader and I mean terrible, so is fast and panics so runs in and out like a rocket, various good and well known names have tried to deal with the issue and it remains unresolved after 11yrs of problems. the horse injured itself and had to go to the vets, the partition had been stolen from the trailer so there was no bum bar to stop horse running back out, O was loading said horse and another livery offered to help owner declined help 4 times and when horse was in trailer other livery walked up to put ramp up, horse came out trapping other livery under ramp and then by all accounts proceeded to jump all over ramp and livery. livery broke both ankles, feet, calf bones (?), femurs hips etc also had terrible open wounds-6 weeks in hospital, 7 months in wheel chair and now 3 yrs later has a pronounced limp and lots of pain.
this accident was not the owners fault in the slightest the livery interfered where her help was not wanted, she still got a huge payout from it though.
 
Under the circumstances I find it unreasonable for the YO to expect the full months payment. YOU are leaving due to THEIR negligence yet they still want paying £400 for this without a prior expressed or written contract about a notice period?! :D They have a cheek alright! Especially as they've since been paid full whack for services they no longer carry out for you, at YOUR inconvenience and additional time and money.

I can't see why her son couldn't have turned your horses out 1 at a time as agreed in the first place after she got kicked by ignoring you and leading them out together. Then there wouldn't be a problem would there? This is their own making, why should they expect to be paid for 2 additional weeks!

The way I see it, YOU are the victim of blackmail, extortion and theft.

I've just left a livery yard, there was no verbal or written contract about a months notice in place and they didn't ask for it either when I told them I was leaving. There was a mix-up as YO's thought I owed £50 livery on the day I was leaving and texted me about it but they didn't try to take my possessions etc. I got home, took a pic of latest receipt stating I was £65 in credit and so by means of a goodwill gesture they didn't even charge me for the 4 days livery they should have taken from the amount in credit and refunded the full £65.

Good luck sorting it out.

ETA: New livery yard has written contract and 5 weeks deposit to be paid. They have 1 months notice to be paid in full. I don't have a problem as it is clear what the agreement is, unlike in your case where they seem to be making rules up as they go along!!!
 
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I think it's pretty clear cut, that you owe the Yard the extra 2 weeks; you pay monthly, therefore need to give a months notice, so why only pay for two weeks? I think it's simple, pay the rest and either suck it up and stay the duration of your notice (to 'get your money's worth, I suppose) or hand over the cash, get your tack and leave!

I left a yard once very quickly, as a few things began to boil over. We weren't even into the next month yet, but I paid for that month in full (including for services, not just paddock rent) packed up and left the next day. There was no written contract, only verbal, and now I get everything written down. ;)
 
I spoke to someone about this tonight who has a little understanding of these things.
They said without a written contract as soon as you pay your first months livery you are accepting any verbal/assumed agreement. In this case as soon as you paid a months livery you accepted that you were paying for a month & hence giving a months notice.
However as soon as any party makes any changes to the agreement this acceptance is null & void.
So in this case you paid a months livery thereby accepting the verbal agreement & entering into a contract with the YO.
However the YO has now changed the agreement by refusing to do the services so you no longer have to continue with your side to the agreement.
 
OP don't put it in writing that your horse kicked her!

Seriously, pay and leave...

She has absolutely no right to keep your tack - that's clear-cut. Your verbal agreement binds you to a month's pay and her to some duties. However, it's much easier to demonstrate that you were paying monthly than that she was expected to turn out your horses or that you specified how.

And your horse kicked her. If she goes down the legal route with that, you could end up in a real mess. You should be running a mile from this and thanking your lucky stars you aren't paying up more.
 
Barnacle said:
OP don't put it in writing that your horse kicked her!

Seriously, pay and leave...

She has absolutely no right to keep your tack - that's clear-cut. Your verbal agreement binds you to a month's pay and her to some duties. However, it's much easier to demonstrate that you were paying monthly than that she was expected to turn out your horses or that you specified how.

And your horse kicked her. If she goes down the legal route with that, you could end up in a real mess. You should be running a mile from this and thanking your lucky stars you aren't paying up more.
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What absolute obtainable guarantee is there that a horse will never kick out and make contact with a person? If you don't want to take that chance, don't agree to work with horses under a monetary agreement.

If you want to save time by leading 2 horses out together when you've previously agreed terms not to, then get kicked and henceforth refuse to comply with the previously agreement, they have no grounds to demand additional livery fees based on a knee jerk reaction due to injury caused by YO negligence.

The YO's negated any verbal contract by their own actions. OP is under no obligation to meet demands of a void (and probably fabricated notice period) contract.

OP, if it were me in this situation, I would put the facts into a letter and hand deliver to YO, then contact the Police to the theft of property (providing copy of letter to YO). If Police say the theft of your belongings is a Civil matter, say that as they stole from you, you are then forced to take bolt cutters and retrieve your stolen property. This should cover your back from a criminal damage aspect as the Police will have been made aware of the situation but declined to involve themselves when you have openly expressed your reasoning/intention. Otherwise, they should accompany you to retrieve your possessions.
 
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Illusion100 said:
What absolute obtainable guarantee is there that a horse will never kick out and make contact with a person? If you don't want to take that chance, don't agree to work with horses under a monetary agreement.
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there is no guarantee but that does mean there is not room for a loss of earnings claim or similar.
 
Not really sure how yo could claim against me.when independent witnesses said it wasn't the horses fault.it was down to her negligence in turning 2 horses out together.especially as I'd previously stipulated not to.anyway I've now got my tack back.as the other liveries were complaining they couldn't access their tack as she had also locked their tack up with mine.
 
Think this YO is a sandwich short of a picnic!

Glad you got your gear back and hopefully you will have a better time at your new yard.


Don't forget the contract, and if you are not supplied with one then write one up, print a second copy and have YO sign it, with a witness or too is best.
 
Glad you got your tack back OP! Next time you have any doubts about a YOs decency do not give notice at all, take your things home as soon as you decide to leave then on leaving date take your horses away and pay upto date but no extra. It is the only way I have found to avoid this type of stressful situation. People who have broken their side of the bargain tend to be the types who are power mad and want everything their own way. No point trying to be reasonable with this type of person it gets you nowhere. With a decent YO, that is one who follows your instructions and sticks to the agreement you both made, I have no problem giving and paying for the appropriate notice period. It is awful the way some YOs try to lord it over their liveries. Hope your next yard is more professional in their dealings with you.
 
Firefly9410 said:
Glad you got your tack back OP! Next time you have any doubts about a YOs decency do not give notice at all, take your things home as soon as you decide to leave then on leaving date take your horses away and pay upto date but no extra. It is the only way I have found to avoid this type of stressful situation. People who have broken their side of the bargain tend to be the types who are power mad and want everything their own way. No point trying to be reasonable with this type of person it gets you nowhere. With a decent YO, that is one who follows your instructions and sticks to the agreement you both made, I have no problem giving and paying for the appropriate notice period. It is awful the way some YOs try to lord it over their liveries. Hope your next yard is more professional in their dealings with you.
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Hear hear firefly, well put!
 
Lolabay said:
Not really sure how yo could claim against me.when independent witnesses said it wasn't the horses fault.it was down to her negligence in turning 2 horses out together.especially as I'd previously stipulated not to.anyway I've now got my tack back.as the other liveries were complaining they couldn't access their tack as she had also locked their tack up with mine.
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Glad you got your things back, my point with the claim is you don't have to be to blame for someone to claim against you
 
Barnacle said:
And your horse kicked her. If she goes down the legal route with that, you could end up in a real mess. You should be running a mile from this and thanking your lucky stars you aren't paying up more.
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Doubtful. According to an equine barrister, if you agree to turn out/catch in/handle a horse known to be difficult, tough luck on you if you get hurt. By agreeing to handle the horse, you have acknowledged the risk and the potential consequences.
 
No she wouldn't renegotiate the livery cost.point blank refused.hence the reason I only paid up until tomorrow (The day I leave)
 
ycbm said:
Am I missing something?

The story as I understand it is that the OP contacted for a livery service at a price. As part of that contract she stipulated that the horse should be led out one at a time.

The yard staff attempted to lead the horses out together and a person was kicked because of their failure to follow safe procedures and the owners instructions.

The yard now refuses to honour their contract and the OP has been put to considerable trouble and expense to cover the service that they will not provide.

I can't see any reason in this situation why any notice is required at all???
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I agree with this, the issues lie with the providers who agreed to something, ignored warnings and from my understanding let an elderly lady do their job, why some on jere are jumping on the op is beyond me, id find put where my tack is and take it and leave
 
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