Yard owners - wwyd?

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks. Yes that’s the conclusion I’m coming to. They’ve recently swopped onto daytime turnout. They were on overnight turnout in summer. I do mornings and have a few iffy moments bringing them in. I’m an AI with 30+ yrs of horses, but this horse is a pain. Horse has been on assisted/full livery for years and I don’t think the owner really realises.

Even if the owner did realise there isn't a great deal that she could do, if she can't get there first. Perhaps she needs to pay someone to bring the horse in but even then the other owners would't be able change their own routines. The ideal would be for owner to provide her own companion for this horse.

Do these horses have hay in the field?

 

[Honey08]

Oh yes, obviously I’d discuss it. One of my issues is that I HAVE mentioned it previously in summer. One of the other horses was joining in the barging. It’s owner came up every morning to help and see what was happening. This owner hasn’t been once, other than at weekends when all owners come at an arranged time, and therefore hasn’t seen any problems.

 

[Honey08]

No they don’t have hay in the field. Ordinarily we have lots of grass. In winter the field turnout is straight off the hard standing turnout, which will have hay on it. They will be on the hard standing 5 days a week. The stables and yard are off the hard standing so probably won’t be a problem in winter.

 

[chocolategirl]

As yard owner you should have a separate fields if there was problem . All you us are being very hash to the owner some horse are naturally more aggressive in a herd setting though not fault of the owner.

Until someone gets killed or seriously injured ?

 

[Ish2020]

Delete

 

[Honey08]

Until someone gets killed or seriously injured ?

Quite! I’ve known two senior instructors who were killed by horses in gateways.

 

[Ish2020]

Is this your horse?

Nope it’s not my horse.

 

[Winters100]

Really difficult situation for you a YO, because you can't really say that the horse has to be brought in first given that other liveries might arrive at any time. I don't envy you in having to deal with this.

I can say that as a livery I would not expect a YO to make big investments to accommodate my horse in this case. If I wanted to stay and changes to infrastructure were needed for this, then I would expect to fund them. Not sure how it is in the UK, but I think that most owners where I am would expect the same. For example one owner of a fence jumper at my yard has had to build new fences for his horse, and I have built a shelter in my paddock for mine.

Good luck with it, and I really hope that you find some workable solution.

 

[Equi]

As yard owner you should have a separate fields if there was problem . All you us are being very hash to the owner some horse are naturally more aggressive in a herd setting though not fault of the owner.

Its not in any way the owners fault no, but at the end of the day its not a normal herd situation where you can leave them to get on with it. People and other horses can't be put at risk and not all yards are set up/able to/want to do individual turnout. Yard owners land, yard owners rules. Also its DIY so its not on the YO to deal with it.

 

[SEL]

Sorry to sound like a wimp, but as an owner I would be very unhappy about it, and I would be very worried about my horses getting injured. I'm afraid for me it would have to be turn it out alone, or if you don't have these possibilities maybe yours is not the right place. Sounds as if they were not really honest in not alerting you to this in advance

You're not a wimp! I did a yard move when my gelding got kicked in this scenario. Didn't help that in the carnage of trying to get him and me out safely the gate didn't shut and all the horses got loose on the yard.

They still have that set up and i know their liveries hate it - esp in winter when you're in wellie high mud with hungry horses.

 

[SEL]

I've also been in the position of owning the 'dangerous' horse - still do.

She never, ever went out with a herd where liveries (esp children) would be in the position of negotiating her hind legs. She's always been in a separate paddock with my gelding even when that has meant me spending 100s on fence posts and tape.

 

[Auslander]

I wouldn't have anything that aggressive out in the herd. It would either be on individual turnout, or leaving my yard.

My mare herd can be pretty horrible to each other - I've got 3 dominant mares in a herd of 5, which can lead to some interesting scenarios! They mostly get out of each others way though, and have a well established pecking order. I don't have DIYs, so it's easy to manage them without much trouble. I will not accept horses being bargy and dominant at the gate if I'm handling other horses there. All mine know full well that there is to be no funny business when I walk into the field. I use a water pistol, which is extremely effective- they all stop fighting and retreat to a safe distance when they see me pick it up!

 

[ycbm]

As yard owner you should have a separate fields if there was problem . All you us are being very hash to the owner some horse are naturally more aggressive in a herd setting though not fault of the owner.

There's no requirement for a yard to have individual turnout. If the horse needs it then it's up to the owner to keep it somewhere that has it.
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

No they don’t have hay in the field. Ordinarily we have lots of grass. In winter the field turnout is straight off the hard standing turnout, which will have hay on it. They will be on the hard standing 5 days a week. The stables and yard are off the hard standing so probably won’t be a problem in winter.

We can't move fields atm because we are having some building work done. The field the horses are in is nicely green but the grass is short, so we are feeding hay in the field. The weather is definitely autumnal and the horses are feeling it. I know you are lower than us but I do wonder if the horse is hungry. I don't know your set-up but is it possible to throw piles of hay over the boundary, in different places to keep all the horses away from the gate, so that there isn't a melee around the gate?

 

[chaps89]

If you had another horse who did this and the owner stepped up, but this one hasn't, then that would tell me they don't take it seriously/aren't concerned.
That attitude towards the situation would have me asking them to leave rather than bending over backwards to accommodate them tbh - the other livery got it right coming down to see the issue and try to sort it- this one hasn't imho.
Failing that if you really don't want to give notice I would insist that a condition of her staying is she pays you/a freelancer to bring the horse in first each day.
If she doesn't like it she can leave.
That however doesn't solve the issue of the time that another livery wants to fetch in early for a vet visit, the saddler etc, though maybe with a bit of notice that could be worked around. Still faffy though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If this horse stays on the current yard in group turnout, sooner or later someone will be very seriously injured. OP, I think you are trying to be too nice and accommodating. Just get rid.

There will be other yards that can accommodate such a horse, but the OP’s is not one of them. That is not a criticism, you have put a lot of work into setting it up, but it will not work with this horse.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I think you need to firstly video this horses behaviour and then have a chat face to face with the owner. Maybe then you and all of the liveries, owner included could sit and chat (without making the owner feel bullied) about the best way to rectify the situation. If everyone works together maybe this horse can have a future at your yard..?? As has been said above, I think separate turnout with his own companion might be the best option.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I like to consider myself fairly experienced handling multiple horses in and out etc. having owned my own horses for over 60 years.

However at the beginning of July I was knocked unconscious in a gateway putting one of my perfect mannered horse out and bringing in my other very well mannered horse. Can't really remember exactly what happened but vaguely aware some sort of aggro kicked off between the two of them. I am still recovering now and waiting on an MRI on my back next week. Still not sure if I will ever be able to actually ride my horse again

My point is - these are two admittedly big horses, both have excellent manners on the ground and never had this sort of issue with them at any time. I have now reverted to setting up electric corals at every gateway that I used to have when I had many more horses to deal with.

If I was on OP's livery yard and I was attempting to bring in or turn out my own horse with this other horse with a very bad reputation and I suffered a similar accident to the one I had on my own yard I would be suing the pants of the livery owner for not taking into account other liveries safety with a horse that has known issue.

 

[sport horse]

I am not a yard owner nor do I keep my horse at livery but I would suggest that this horse is not suitable to be kept in a DIY livery yard. It needs to be in part ivery where it can be brought in first and possibly turned out last?

 

[Tiddlypom]

If I was on OP's livery yard and I was attempting to bring in or turn out my own horse with this other horse with a very bad reputation and I suffered a similar accident to the one I had on my own yard I would be suing the pants of the livery owner for not taking into account other liveries safety with a horse that has known issue.

Quite right. I’m really sorry to hear of your continuing issues, Mrs J, after your freak accident with normally well behaved horses.

I’ve been kicked by loose horses milling in a field. I wasn’t the intended target, but it damn well hurt and I was lucky not to get my leg broken. It makes you very aware of what can happen. I never bring in/put more than one horse at a time even now - my accident was about 50 years ago.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Can you section off a pen in the existing field using electric tape? So he can still see the others but cannot get to the gate?

I would probably tape-off immediately, to prevent him injuring someone in the interim, even if the ground took strain. If the ground couldn’t sustain that, I’d give notice and I might feed hay short term until he is moved.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

...if you had a DIY livery horse that was really bossy at the gate? Small mixed herd, plenty of turnout. The horse is blocking the gate and kicking at/lunging at/biting other horses if you try to get them out of the field before him. Chasing it away with a flick of a lead rope or whip just spooks the others too. I’m worried someone is going to get hurt. It’s a big draught horse. I’ve already banned treats in the field, but not sure that the owner is respecting that, I’m not always there. My freelance groom knows this horse from a previous yard and said it could be a pain.

We have had this, but we have another gate so we go through that, also we put slip rails as an alternative for owners to use, so they go through another field through the rails then down to the other gate. Works well, we have used a second person with a headcollar or whip to move the dominant away from the gate so owners can get their horses in.

the trouble is bringing the horse in early as
A. it rewards the horse for this
B. A pain when there are enough chores to do without this
C. there will be times to bring a horse in for vet, farrier etc, and you don't wat to have to bring problem horse in first




I would suggest putting slip rails into the other field as an alternative route, it works for us or another gate between fields

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Oh yes, obviously I’d discuss it. One of my issues is that I HAVE mentioned it previously in summer. One of the other horses was joining in the barging. It’s owner came up every morning to help and see what was happening. This owner hasn’t been once, other than at weekends when all owners come at an arranged time, and therefore hasn’t seen any problems.

So someone else has to catch it in if the owner only bothers turning up at weekends? Tell her again that he’s a problem, show her the picture of my ruddy leg and say this is what can happen with a rude horse being an ar$e at the gate. The quickest and easiest solution is she pays someone to catch him in first, every single day (if he’s not a danger to catch in)

We have a very big gelding at my yard who was being a pain at catch in, wouldn’t be caught then would be caught but would be a real danger as soon as he was out of the gate, yanking away from the groom, rearing, running at people-me!!

I waited for him to be out of the way a few times before the yard told his owner he needed work and is far better when worked daily-he now has a sharer but he’s just been recalled to work. I am frankly scared of him and I’m constrained by working hours. If they don’t catch him in early come winter turnout hours, I’m going to have words. I don’t want to be caught unawares again in the lane like I was a few times during lockdown.

 

[dominobrown]

Tell her, ask about solutions, and tell her she could liable if any accidemts occur as she has been made aware of the problem. However it doesn't sound like that horse and that turnout sitation are compatible. I know its harsh but we have all heard horrific stories about turnout and injuries, its just not worth someone else getting crushed/ kicked in the face/ dragged across the field etc.

 

[Henry02]

To be honest it just sounds like a nightmare situation. A small herd situation on DIY livery with horses presumably all being turned out in the morning and brought in at night at different time is probably an accident waiting to happen, no matter how “nice” the horses are... let alone there being a bully in the field.

 

[Gingerwitch]

To be honest it just sounds like a nightmare situation. A small herd situation on DIY livery with horses presumably all being turned out in the morning and brought in at night at different time is probably an accident waiting to happen, no matter how “nice” the horses are... let alone there being a bully in the field.

This is most yards set up on DIY, some yards have a lone horse policy and some don't. Even on DIY I have always put my horses on an in. Many times I would arrive at the yard just as they started to catch in and I would bring my own in. I still paid the charge as yard owner had staffed up to deal with my 3,4 or 5. Now some thought I was bats but all I knew was if weather turned crappy yard would bring mine in and hay if it was around 2. But mine would have a routine and know there time. At another yard if the ground was dreadful only those that y o was in control of would go out as other owners would take the Mick on turn out and leave out til 7 or 8pm to get back there turn out hours. Another yard had 30 acre fields but 3 gates and you were asked to rotate the gates you used and banned from bringing in from the closest yard gate, but could turn out through it.

 

[fusspot]

As a small YO you I can see you really only have 2 choices. The horse either needs to have its own field adjacent to others or you will need to have a polite chat with the owner and ask them to leave.
If you carry on as is, you are potentially asking for a horse or person to be badly injured or killed or you risk other owners leaving because they don’t feel safe doing their horse.
Unfortunately it sounds like the owner isn’t particularly interested in helping find a solution so if I was in your position, if you cannot give the horse or the horse won’t settle being in a paddock by itself,for everybody’s safety and to stop you losing quite a few of your other clients, it would be a polite...the horse isn’t suited to our setup and so need to ask you to leave.If you don’t do either of those as you know about the issue,if anything does happen to another horse or person you will be liable.Good luck.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

If you don’t do either of those as you know about the issue,if anything does happen to another horse or person you will be liable.Good luck.

This is so true. You seem like such a lovely person OP, on this and on other threads but you really need think about protecting yourself here too.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think you have 3 options:

1. Put the ‘problem horse’ on individual turnout.

2. Get the owner to come every morning to get ‘problem horse’ in first or at the same time as the others or pay a freelancer to do it if she cannot.

3. ‘Problem horse’ needs to move yards.

It’s possible the owner isn’t aware of the extent of the problem, so I would most definitely request that she is present tomorrow morning to see for herself and then you can discuss the three options above. If you don’t address it someone will be hurt or liveries will leave.

 

[sport horse]

To be honest it just sounds like a nightmare situation. A small herd situation on DIY livery with horses presumably all being turned out in the morning and brought in at night at different time is probably an accident waiting to happen, no matter how “nice” the horses are... let alone there being a bully in the field.

I so agree and I think this is just one of the reasons that many yards are stopping DIY. Certainly around here, it is a dying option.