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SimplySurprising

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So about a month of so ago I confronted a girl who my friend had seen punch my horse in the face for not moving back from the gate fast enough, (this was also caught on CCTV, a slightly obscured view but you can see her raise her hand and my horse literally SHOOT back very fast).
At the time I didn't realise she was only 14/15 (no joke, she is down the yard caked in makeup and could easily pass for much older), I'm 25 so as you can imagine her mum and dad didn't take kindly to the fact I was screaming at their child. However I felt and still feel that at that age they are definitely old enough to know you NEVER punch a horse in the face, as a result he's quite head shy now, and my thoughts are also if the have the audacity to do that when people are around, what are they doing when nobody is there to see it? My horse would move back quite happily from the gate if you ask him nicely and nudge his shoulder, his problem is he just wants to be friends with everyone so does get in your face but he's definitely not dangerous!
Anyway the yard owner backs me up with the cctv and the fact she punched him but it was shown to her dad and he's still denying it!

Would you have handled the situation differently? did I over react?
 
I don't think you overreacted, at that age I'm sorry but you know right from wrong and it is never acceptable to punch any horse in the face imo, except if you genuinely fear for your safety which it sounds like she didn't.
Okay, not ideal for you to be screaming at her but I imagine that your emotions were running very high, and it's not like you were physically laying into her.
Would your YO not consider asking her to leave the yard as they have CCTV evidence? I see you're very near to me, would you mind PMing me the name of your yard? This sounds very similar to an incident I had once, wondering if it could be the same place/culprit.
 
Why did you 'scream at their child'? Surely it would have been better to approach it calmly, asking if it was true and asking why she did that? I would have wanted an explanation but screaming at anyone doesn't achieve anything so yes, I think you could have handled it better.
 
chestnut cob...Yeah I agree screaming at her was probably not my best move, but emotions were running high as I hate people who hit animals, but I get your point :)
 
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I would have spoken to her menacingly, rather than screaming. But I wouldn't have ignored it. Can you ask the YO to move her out of your field?
 
If the YO is sticking with you, then the father's opinion counts for nothing. He probably can't believe his daughter is horrid.
 
atropa said:
I don't think you overreacted, at that age I'm sorry but you know right from wrong and it is never acceptable to punch any horse in the face imo, except if you genuinely fear for your safety which it sounds like she didn't.
Okay, not ideal for you to be screaming at her but I imagine that your emotions were running very high, and it's not like you were physically laying into her.
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This. Age is not IMO a factor when it comes from knowing right from wrong. For goodness sake, my 4yo knows never to hit a horse! Yes, probably better if you hadnt gone nuts on the child but to be fair I would have been livid and probabky would have done the same. I'd go mental if someone hit my horse. How dare she. I think Id speak to the parents calmly and tell them CCTV shows it and how upset you are, and that it is totally unacceptable and if it ever happens again you will be reporting her.
 
This seems to be a very modern problem - some parents simply won't accept that their precious child could possibly do anything wrong. My mum used to work in a school and used to say it was impossible to discipline the children because as horrid as the child might have been, the parents would come into the school shouting the odds at the teacher, defending the child. So we now have a generation of people who think they can behave exactly as they like. (Yes I know this doesn't apply to all parents and children - I know many delightful children with fabulous parents)
So just rise above it and don't worry about whether Dad believed you or not. Concentrate on gaining your horse's trust again. That girl and her dad will come across many many more problems with her having an attitude like that.
 
Notimetoride said:
This seems to be a very modern problem - some parents simply won't accept that their precious child could possibly do anything wrong. My mum used to work in a school and used to say it was impossible to discipline the children because as horrid as the child might have been, the parents would come into the school shouting the odds at the teacher, defending the child. So we now have a generation of people who think they can behave exactly as they like. (Yes I know this doesn't apply to all parents and children - I know many delightful children with fabulous parents)
So just rise above it and don't worry about whether Dad believed you or not. Concentrate on gaining your horse's trust again. That girl and her dad will come across many many more problems with her having an attitude like that.
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Completely agree. My mother was a teacher and left the profession a few years before her standard retirement age because she was fed up of having parents complaining every time she disciplined a child in class.

OP - we have quite a lot of teenagers on our yard because a small riding school is also run off the premises. I got very, very cross with one of them the other weekend (plain bad manners rather than anything violent) and properly growled at her in my 'teacher' voice. For the rest of the day she behaved like an angel - and I can't help but think a little more growling by adults would help this particular teenager grow up into a much nicer person than the brat she currently is.

So don't beat yourself up, especially as they are leaving. At 14 years old the kid can take a verbal pounding, especially given what she did to the horse. The adults around me as a kid (I'm in my 40s) didn't hold back and I think me, my siblings and friends grew up to be OK members of society!
 
MagicMelon said:
This. Age is not IMO a factor when it comes from knowing right from wrong. For goodness sake, my 4yo knows never to hit a horse! Yes, probably better if you hadnt gone nuts on the child but to be fair I would have been livid and probabky would have done the same. I'd go mental if someone hit my horse. How dare she. I think Id speak to the parents calmly and tell them CCTV shows it and how upset you are, and that it is totally unacceptable and if it ever happens again you will be reporting her.
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The OP stated the father has been shown the CCTV footage and won't believe it so engaging with the parents probably is a waste of time. Sadly there seems to be a general trend of bad manners being acceptable these days.
 
Lucky you didn't punch her in the face. I wouldn't worry about it especially if they are leaving, however just make sure they don't do anything vindictive when they leave. Feel very sorry for her horse.
 
She hit your horse in the face, I think you have every right to be annoyed.
I wouldn't have screamed at her, but words had to be had because that is not on.
If her parents don't like it, then tough. She shouldn't have hit the horse and needs to stop making herself out at the victim.

I had a situation recently where my sharer was leaving, and on one of my days found my horse was stood in a bed that was soaked, in puddles of his own urine and shavings, with muck stuck on his coat. It didn't look as if he'd been mucked out the day before (when sharer was down) and whilst he's a messy horse, I have never seen any horse with such a bad bed. Horse is on part DIY, so he gets fed in the morning and checked on and I was down by half 12 to turn him out and do jobs. I don't understand how a bed can get so messy overnight, as sharers said they didn't put him in his bed/muck him out until 4pm the day before.

I was so angry, sent them a message with no swearing but to tell them it was unacceptable, unfair on my horse, that it didn't look like he had been mucked out, I'd never seen a bed so bad, that I was angry and there was no excuse and even though they would be leaving in 2 weeks I still expected him to be mucked out properly, and that they should know by now how to muck him out and that if he needs more bedding to let me know so I can bring it down, and that I would be dropping more bedding down the next day and I expected to see his bed had been mucked out properly when I brought it down so I could add the new stuff in to it. I made it clear I didn't want things to end on a bad note, but that it was unacceptable and I couldn't let it slip due to how messy his bed was.

I then got a message to say sharers parents were very unhappy with what I had said and that she wasn't allowed to come back as a result - and has then gone on facebook acting as if she has been thrown off the yard unjustly with various comments about how nasty/spiteful it was 'at the end' and how it's so heartbreaking and they have lost a horse of a lifetime. They were leaving anyway as sharer was buying her own horse, sharer didn't pay anything towards upkeep or for the share, nor was she interested in staying on to possibly take my horse on full loan when I go to uni and keep the share until then for free (which I had let her know was an option - if she was so convinced he was her horse of a lifetime, couldn't be without him etc. she did have an option of staying on regardless), and I wouldn't have had to say anything if he had been mucked out properly - either she has not told parents the whole story in that she wasn't bothering to do his bed properly, or she doesn't actually know how to muck out (which I don't believe, as she was able to do it last year). If anything, I feel as if I am being made out to be an awful person, and she is the victim, when the truth is that she was only going to be around for another week anyway and it was her/her parents choice to leave, as I nowhere said she was to leave immediately!

I think it's something about being 14/15 and thinking you know it all - there are some kids who can do no wrong and will tell their side and leave out the details as to why. Punching a horse because it didn't move back can turn into giving it a small smack as it was pushing forward and being very bargey/they felt scared by it to parents, the same way that just skipping out a bed and just lifting the poo/worst of the wet without turning over and airing a bed can turn into doing a thorough muck out that took an hour if it seems to fit a story better
 
She hit your horse in the face, it was caught on cctv? YO is backing you in this matter. Girl's denying it, her father is denying it even though it was caught on cctv.

I can understand you being irate about it but the shouting etc wasn't the best thing to do. Anyway that's over with now. YO should be taking action with the girl & should be giving her & her father the bums rush off the yard. No YO wants that type of thing happening on their yard & unless she takes appropriate action the story will spead around & she & her/his yard will get a bad name & that effects business.
 
Notimetoride said:
This seems to be a very modern problem - some parents simply won't accept that their precious child could possibly do anything wrong.
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100% agree with you on this

However

there are as many horse owners who think the same about their precious horse

In this case I would be furious but if the CCTV doesn't actually show the punch and it wasn't me that actually witnessed it I think I would probably held back on the screaming
 
My daughter is 13 and if she punched a horse in the face I would be livid. However, I would probably not like someone screaming in her face but on the other hand I bet she'll think twice about doing it again. At the end of the day if it was caught on CCTV how can she deny it? If a kid is mature enough to be left at the yard on her own then the parents need to accept that they can't protect her all the time and that she needs to be responsible for her actions.
 
Lets be honest. If you saw someone hitting your horse I doubt many of you would have held back. I always prided myself on being calm and rational, however when I came up and saw a horse being yelled at and hit while pulling back... then realised the panicked horse was actually my retired ladylike mare, the groom didn't know what hit her (not actually hit, but yelled at) and I proved just how fast I could move. Mare was known to be one of the easiest and often it was the nervous or new people who would bring her in. However, shouting and screaming at her would result in one panicked horse and this particular girl knew better.

Anyway, while the parents should have known better, it does seem to be a particular trait with that age group to push the boundaries.
 
I would like to think the girl has learned a lesson from this afterall, she had been caught on cctv so no matter how much the girl and her father deny it, the evidence is there.
What is her attitude like now OP? Is she quieter and more subdued? Although her father is backing her up publicly, he may of hauled her over the coals for it in private. Of course a public and heartfelt apology would be a good way forward for the girl but, if this is not going to happen, you may have to be satisfied with her never raising a hand to anyones horse again.
 
SimplySurprising said:
So about a month of so ago I confronted a girl who my friend had seen punch my horse in the face for not moving back from the gate fast enough, (this was also caught on CCTV, a slightly obscured view but you can see her raise her hand and my horse literally SHOOT back very fast).
At the time I didn't realise she was only 14/15 (no joke, she is down the yard caked in makeup and could easily pass for much older), I'm 25 so as you can imagine her mum and dad didn't take kindly to the fact I was screaming at their child. However I felt and still feel that at that age they are definitely old enough to know you NEVER punch a horse in the face, as a result he's quite head shy now, and my thoughts are also if the have the audacity to do that when people are around, what are they doing when nobody is there to see it? My horse would move back quite happily from the gate if you ask him nicely and nudge his shoulder, his problem is he just wants to be friends with everyone so does get in your face but he's definitely not dangerous!
Anyway the yard owner backs me up with the cctv and the fact she punched him but it was shown to her dad and he's still denying it!

Would you have handled the situation differently? did I over react?
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I don't think you over reacted at all, and faced the same situation would be mad too. We have horses here who hog the gate to come in and we say to the horses * you don't tell us your coming in first we dictate who does come in and in what order, that Many a time we have to wave our hand or pat them on the chest and say * back up or move *. some times we shake a head collar to say move too if they are stubborn and wont move. We have an old boy who is 34 and we have to get him in about 1 hr before the others otherwise he gets shunted and kicked at and he cannot move as quick as the others and in the past has been knocked off his feet and could not get up till we screamed at the others to leave him alone.

As for punching, there are less aggressive ways to move a horse back than an immediate punch like the aforementioned methods.

What this teenager did is not on, and if too stupid or immature or just beginner then she should have seeked someone else on the yard to help her, it's not science.

Manners have gone now, kids pay no respect to their elders due the limited discipline parents can use these days.

In my day a smack on the a$$ or the back of the legs went a long way ( for me ) to never answer my parents back and due to that I still respect them now (albeit I lost my father 2 years ago) I am proud of my upbringing my parents gave me.

Never used the F word in front of them or the c word
pulled up on pronunciation ( parents specialist teachers ) not wa er it is water etc
Never sampled or taken drugs.

The Parents should see this footage as evidence as that cannot lie and if his little child has the sun shining out her a$$ then that is bad parenting on the fathers part.

My mare is head shy due to previous care and it is very hard if at all possible to rectify
 
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I too think you absolutely had a right to be very annoyed and upset. I would have found it hard to hold my temper but perhaps stern as opposed to screaming would have been better. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing mind!
 
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Gsmith said:
I too think you absolutely had a right to be very annoyed and upset. I would have found it hard to hold my temper but perhaps stern as opposed to screaming would have been better. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing mind!

Sasquatch, is it possible your sharer’s did muck out? In their defense, if I have understood correctly your horse was in the box for 20.5 hours inbetween muck outs. Mine would be disgusting if they went that long!
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I absolutely cannot say if they did or not, however I know how dirty he gets over night and how much of a difference it makes when his bed is done properly and everything is lifted and turned over, his mat is lifted and any shavings that are underneath are lifted and brushed out so it's able to drain properly and all the leftover haylage he's dropped on the floor is lifted and when it's just skipped out so only the dirtiest stuff is lifted and he honestly needs a full muck out once a day or he gets very very dirty. If he's given a full muck out once a day every day and you keep on top of his bed, it starts to take less and less time each day and the whole bed is much cleaner. They knew this as I'd told them it was the easiest way to keep him clean, and they also knew if he was very dirty and needed more bedding because he was dirty or running low they just had to let me know so I could get it brought down, which they didn't do. Since they've left and I've been doing his bed (and when he's been on full and yard has done his bed) he's not been as dirty, nor has he been half as wet.
My other issue is that they knew if he needed more bedding all they had to do was say so I could bring it down either that night, or on my day. They didn't and as a result he had very little bed which probably didn't help - I don't drive yet so I am reliant on getting a lift to go and buy bedding as well as dropping it down. Usually it's fine as long as I'm kept updated on if he needs more or not, so I can arrange to get bedding dropped off, but this wasn't happening either.
They weren't asked or expected to pay any contribution towards shavings or pellets, nor were they asked or expected to go and buy them or even to come and pick them up, all they had to do was send a text to say 'he was very messy and will need more shavings tomorrow'
 
Ok. I edited as I thought better of it and didn't want to sidetrack the OP's thread. I see your point above regarding them needing to communicate with you. However, 20.5 hours is not overnight in my book. I would say not being turned out/mucked out until 12:30 is more likely to be the reason the bed was messy, not them having done a poor job the night before!
 
Screaming at someone shows a lack of control and is never IME a good way to get what you want .
I am with the earlier poster and hope I could have done deeply menacing if it had happened to me .
However you are were you are and it's good the YOer has backed you up hopefully they will keep a eye on the little brat for a good while .
I don't think you can do much about the parents attitude by the times she's twenty five they will realise they have made a mistake .
 
You never know what goes on behind closed doors where parenting is concerned. Maybe the dad defended her in front of you (because that's what parents do!) but that doesn't mean she didn't get a telling off in private. I remember getting in trouble for something at school aged 14 or so and my mum would have defended me to the death in front of the teacher but rest assured when we got home I got one hell of a *******ing!
 
joosie said:
You never know what goes on behind closed doors where parenting is concerned. Maybe the dad defended her in front of you (because that's what parents do!) but that doesn't mean she didn't get a telling off in private. I remember getting in trouble for something at school aged 14 or so and my mum would have defended me to the death in front of the teacher but rest assured when we got home I got one hell of a *******ing!
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Err, no, I'm a parent and I don't defend my children when they are clearly in the wrong. I tell them to apologise and assure the person they have wronged that they will be disciplined. Hitting an animal in temper is wrong and had it been my animal, I would have gone nuts but in hindisght, it's never a good idea to yell. I've done it enough, having a very hot temper, and I always regret it! I am not making excuses for her but puberty can drive kids nuts and I did notice on a pervious livery yard that was full of kids that a lot of them got cranky and very heavy handed at this age, who were not before. Hopefully, she is mortified and realises how much she over reacted and this will not happen again
 
The kid is clearly in the wrong, and the parents sound like a lost cause. YO is backing you and they're leaving, so I don't see the ongoing issue is.

However much they're in the wrong, screaming at somebody (regardless of their age) is hardly ever a good idea - even if they know it's their fault, screaming/shouting puts them on the defensive and makes it less likely for them to admit wrongdoing/apologise.

In this kind of situation, there are parents who would have been mortified by the punching, but would have been immediately outraged by the screaming - you effectively ceded the moral high ground, and their daughter comes higher up their priority list that someone else's horse. Clearly, the parents here aren't like that but it's something to consider.
 
OP can you pm me a location as you seem close to me and I am moving yards soon. Having moved after a teenager punched one of my horses (causing damage) I don't want to walk into same situation.
 
The golden rules of confrontation:

1) Do not raise your voice, infact quieter is scarier and gets your point across.

2) Stick to the facts.

3) Do not get emotional.

Told to me by my parents from a very young age, they both worked in high up corporate jobs, this is the most effective way of getting your point across.
 
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