Yard Prices - Fed Up

Well at the end of the day. U sign contract once u happy. With what your getting. If u don't like it leave.


Running a yard. Is costly. Keeping. Up maintenance. We don't make as much as we spend



16000. On resurfacing indoor school


2000 on outdoor
9000. On concreting Yard
6000 on re roofing a stable block
2000 on rubber mats
100stable mirrors

And if liveries not happy they know where door is

Running a yard is a labour of love. Not a money making venture
 
cbmcts said:
No, that yard was viable except that I wasn't in the position to invest the capital due to the economic climate at that time - restrictions on commercial mortages and all that! ...
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Believe me if you have a good business idea that is guarantees a good return on capital invested and you are seen as a good investment you will be able to get the money, even Lord Sugar borrows money, and he has plenty in his savings account!
 
Well we tell liveries. What we do. What they get. What extras we have if they require them. When u view a yard. You should go there with a check list of questions. U want to ask. Then if u happy. U go there.
 
That is fine if there is integrity, we had a livery meeting one thing was made clear, extra shavings would only be made available, for cash on a Sunday from 2 to 4, fair enough, first child that asked was told, "I am too busy just now" [ I know because I happened to be passing], I asked for shavings on Monday and got them!
 
diamond_light said:
Well at the end of the day. U sign contract once u happy. With what your getting. If u don't like it leave.


Running a yard. Is costly. Keeping. Up maintenance. We don't make as much as we spend

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Well why do you do it, you are en route to bankrupcy, best get rid of your customers while you are still afloat.
I had to sign contract within a day or so of arriving, so I could not see what I was getting other than the stable and other obvious facilities, I assumed that they would be maintained on a regular basis, ie once a year or ongoing as required. The contract covered what I was expected to do not what the yard would do[or in this case not do]!
 
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I really can not see how the OP is going to survive. It's ok to say me & mum run yard & dad does maintenance. So do they take a wage or are they subsidising peoples horses? IMHO a 24 box yard if full could not function correctly with only 2 people. That would be 12 horses per day each, 7 days a week. Does no one ever feel ill or get sick? OP also adds she does some excersising & teaching on top of the rest of her jobs. I would like to ask a very straight question. Is your yard legit? Ie paying business rates correct insurance etc? In the NW rates are £200 per box. £12 M2 for Indoor. £6 M2 outdoor. Tack/ feed/storage £7 M2 & so on. My business RV is £22000.00 per annum & that takes some covering. Every livery is treated the same, all potential customers are told up front I do not promise winter turn out as land here is mainly clay. All P & R paddocks are for max 2 horses, which has saved £'s in vet bills due to injury. On that basis it is not as simple of a few large fields with a herd in each with another couple of fields resting. A brochure is given & a contract signed. Everyone knows exactly what they get & exactly what it costs. Fortunately I have a great bunch of people on the yard & I always promise that if they have a problem speak to me, then we find a solution. It may not be everyones cup of tea, but how I set up my yard works for the people that join us & generally stay.
 
MrsD123 said:
I'd hate to be a yard manger on pay per use, you 'd have people using facilites and "forgetting" to record use, then at the end of the month you have to spend two days working out costs, send out an invoice then sit back and wait for complaints, then have to check payment of every horse, what a nightmare.
Pay per use if it is a solarium but even then the slot machine is about £300 on its own.
The yard manger has to have a regular income to ensure he has enough to cover outgoings as they occur, this would lead to all sorts of problems.
some yards have DIY and part livery and full livery, is this not enough?
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Not difficult, you just have to treat your yard like a proper job and set your systems to manage these things in advance and do your books on a daily basis rather than leave it to month end when it becomes a herculean effort.
BTW,clients 'forgetting' to record use is no different to theft and should be treated as such. CCTV cameras do keep people honest plus are a vital security measure and it's not like the systems are that expensive and as capital expenditure they are tax deductable.

Your base income would be the standard livery charge and running a yard in this way would surely increase the amount of potential clients ie if you bought a youngster you would have the facilities available when you wanted to back them and at the other end of the scale you could retire your horse to grass at the same place as you keep your riding horse.

diamond_light said:
Well at the end of the day. U sign contract once u happy. With what your getting. If u don't like it leave.


Running a yard. Is costly. Keeping. Up maintenance. We don't make as much as we spend

And if liveries not happy they know where door is

Running a yard is a labour of love. Not a money making venture
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:eek: Do you think the bolded bit is why you are so uncompromising? I think that I'd be a bit peed off too if I was working at a loss!

MrsD123 said:
Believe me if you have a good business idea that is guarantees a good return on capital invested and you are seen as a good investment you will be able to get the money, even Lord Sugar borrows money, and he has plenty in his savings account!
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Lord Sugar wouldn't be my personal business hero I'm afraid :D Rude, inflexible and been bankrupt more than once!
I could have borrowed if I had wished too but at rates that I didn't like and also, as I said before there were other reasons I didn't go ahead. Interestingly, I still visit this yard quite often and talk to the new owners (they are not aware that I had sight of the books before they bought, they only made an offer a few months after I had pulled out) and they are struggling due to their lack of business experience IMO. There is so much potential that they are not exploiting and their cash flow is a problem because they are not managing their bills properly (again IMO) as the annual insurance bill was a shock to them ...so they raised the livery by 25% with ONE weeks notice and lost 20% of their liveries. Not very professional, is it?

FWIW, I think FRESHMAN has the right ideas - everything up front, realistic and professional and while I agree you will never get rich running a livery yard you should be able to make a living wage and have the property to sell to provide your pension when the time comes...
 
In our area, we have a practical choice of just a single, DIY, yard. It has a very good outdoor arena but little else. The worst thing about it is some of the clients - they treat the yard as their own private domain and use atrocious language and are intimidating to anyone not part of their social grouping- subsequently there's very few children or families down there, the atmosphere just isn't conducive. I'd love to have our boys on part livery as the morning trips mean a very early start - I'd happily pay more but it's simply not an option. I'm sure if our yard sorted out the "behavioural" issues and invested in some new show and xc jumps it would thrive. A huge arena that only has a couple of jumps that are falling apart makes a very poor first impression on potential clients. Also, a lot of clients have left recently and I'm worried the yard may no longer be viable, despite having a local monopoly. We privately rented some stables & paddocks a while back, but without the arena we struggled to keep our boys competition fit as the ground just wasn't up to it.
 
Just wanted to say Good Luck to Hoofit - your yard sounds fabulous and I'm sure once you get a couple of clients, many more will come running. You just have to get yourself a name and you'll be flying.
 
Yep flying into the not making any profit ledger. I would really like a straight answer regarding is it a. Legit yard paying all the necessary dues or just another that is dodging all the costs that other yards have to pay? People want improvements but until we are on a level playing field it just wont happen. I await the answer to my question,
 
Well waited for the answer for a 2nd time, obviously not forthcoming therefore can only assume (& apologies if I am wrong) but I do believe this is yet another yard, complaining about business but perhaps not on a legal parr with others. I simply ask what chance have legit yards got in the market place if others that are not complying are having problems!
 
Sorry for the late replay I have not been on, i have been a busy bee.

I can assure you my yard is totally legit we are about to apply for BHS approval . I find you comments very negative. Please don't worry about my yard being above board.
I have found that there are always people looking to nock you down but this makes me strive more
I wish you every success with your yard and i hope that mine will be successful aswell :o

thank you holly hocks it is poeple like you who make it all worth while

XXX J
 
My apologies if you feel I was being negative towards you, that was not my intention. I was just so surprised that anyone can have a brand new purpose built yard & offer so much for such a small amount of money in return. If you say you can do it though good luck to you.
 
Id like to say that Ive been exceptionally lucky in the livery yards Ive kept horses, having been a yard manager previously, (HMAF & civvy yards) I appreciate the cots & effort to maintain facilities in addition to ensuring every client feels that "their" horse is "your" priority. Its not an easy task balancing both the business & emotive side with people you wouldnt necessarily invite to your dinner parties ;)

My current yard is utterly brilliant, the facilities are super, the place is clean, well maintained, the owners are experienced, friendly, open & approachable - & other liveries are friendly, there is a super atmosphere. They "took me in" last winter when it became clear my current (it was a temporary yard admittedly) wouldnt be suitable over winter (mud was chronic & even with my own fencing installed I couldnt stop a 2yo shetland filly nipping into my 2yo colts field) lovely people, but no-one on site & would have been a nightmare to get to when the snow arrived.

Yes, the previous place was £15 per horse cheaper per week - but, no proper school, mud soup for fields, no owners on site, dodgy wiring & fencing etc & with a 20yr & a rising 3yr it was impractical - additionally my own health was poor & I was having to ask (& feel guilty about) someone to feed & turn out for me (Id do the same in return but thats not really the point) it was a DIY yard & I had become a "could you possibly...." perhaps twice a week - not fair on the others.

So, I moved to a yard closer to home, who offered assisted livery & whilst I dont use it fully (only for feeding in the morning & occasional throw 'em out) the difference in how I feel is chalk & cheese. As an owner I need peace of mind, honesty & somewhere friendly to enjoy my horses - & current yard has surpassed all expectations (been there since last December & I 'aint moving!)

I have side by side stables away from the main barn (my boy is still entire & even that didnt phase them), the horses are over the fence from each other, the fields are amazing, well drained, owners even laid hardcore up to all fields & fence standing, super outdoor school with proper lighting - a really well thought out professional yard.

Do I grudge the £30 per week more?...Not a blinkin' chance!!!

I hope Im a good livery client - Im clean, tidy, pay when the bill comes out (am self employed & the owner understands this, I never feel naughty for being a day or two late & in fact recently paid two months up front) this flexibility is wholly appreciated & I know how lucky I am & never fail to make sure I say "thank you".

I was also amazed at how little was charged for assisted livery & just how much the owner does, especially in winter - morning feed, rug change, turn out, bring in, rug change, night haynet in & feed for £40 per week, 7 days.

Its true that you get what you pay for, in some cases you get something money cant buy - the joy you keep horses for, because they are happy, you are happy & that's the bottom buck,

Thank you to my livery yard, if you read the HH forums & spot this - you guys really made a difference to my gang :)
 
MrsD123 said:
Well why do you do it, you are en route to bankrupcy, best get rid of your customers while you are still afloat.
I had to sign contract within a day or so of arriving, so I could not see what I was getting other than the stable and other obvious facilities, I assumed that they would be maintained on a regular basis, ie once a year or ongoing as required. The contract covered what I was expected to do not what the yard would do[or in this case not do]!
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i tell visitors what we do routine what they get everything,, so keep it all in open :)all my liveries and i go out for a meal once a year its a great way of


seeing them away from the yard in a relaxed atmosphere

nah wont go bankrupted got rich hubby who owns the place so plenty backing .
 
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I think most people appreciate what it costs to run a yard, however not all YO's are caring, hardworking horse people. We have huge issues with ours to the extend we half run the place ourselves and take care of his horses because he wont do it. Sure we could leave, but we like the people and the location is amazing. He has a duty of care to his liveries, but is lazy and runs the place like a hobby, and we will moan about the service we receive for our hard earned money when we see him with one of his new toys or on another holiday.
 
hoofit, i can confirm that your business is above board! and i also remember when it was a pipe dream just a few years ago. i went out to the pig farm as it used to be known to check it out myself after a conversation withyour father regarding construction (used to work for a local company), anyways i know its all up and running and i am sure that you will make a success of it. I used to work on a full livery yard locally (there are only around 3 now that i am aware of?) and the price was 70 per week that was only about 6 years ago but prices here are quite reasonable its just that they are few and far between with huge waiting lists on most of them x
anyways good luck again hoofit xx
 
MrsD123 said:
this is due entirely to selfishness on the part of the rider, nothing really to do with the Yard manager [except that you have to complain to her] I had a youngster to school over poles, I waited till the young lady who was lunging had been it the school for 30 minutes, she told someone she was nearly finished, but when she saw it was me wanted to come in [I had complained to her about pinching my hay-net], she lunged that poor horse for another twenty minutes in the corner I wanted to use for my grid work, just selfishness and self importance.
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no trust me i have been at yards when people have been removed from the school by the yo so someone else can use it, when challanged the original user was told the other person horse needed more work or was more important than them. it is up to the yo to ensure that all liveries have equal access to the facilties and no one has more rights than the others, if someone is pushing their weight around, then this is not fair on the others.

everyone is equally important
 
trundle said:
But being a business, they should be run in a professional manner. If Yard Owners cannot provide facilities and maintain them in an acceptable state, then they should stop advertising that they have those facilities, and price themselves accordingly.

I don't think many people are silly enough to expect five-star full livery at DIY grass livery prices, and if they are, they have only themselves to blame. However, if you are paying several hundred pounds a month for livery, on a yard where you expect decent services and facilities, it is reasonable to be aggrieved if you are not getting those services and facilities.
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I agree, I moved from one yard which was 2 miles from my house to my new one which is 20miles from my house beacuse where I was before I was paying around £400 a month with my turn outs which I had to have beacuse of work commitments, feed, haylage, bedding and stable rent ect for a stable that flooded sometimes in the winter a school which was so deep you couldnt ride in it if it was too dry or too wet beacuse it flooded and a tack room which was only secure with one padlock and no loo.

I am now at a yard with 2 lovely schools, a lunge arena, communial room with 3 loos a shower and kitchen and heating, heated and coded tack room, heated rug room and CCTV on the yard and miles of xc schooling and morning turn out, feed and bedding all included for less that £300 a month its incredible what you can get if you shop around and I wouldnt even mind paying as much as I did before beacuse of the 5* facilities

It pure luxuary for me
 
IME of livery yards, problems usually occur (and I don't necessarily mean *my* problems, just probs generally) because of poor customer service.

Personally I want the livery prices to reflect the quality of the yard and services. I am happy to pay for good facilities - I would expect to pay more for a yard with a decent arena that is well maintained and wouldn't expect to pay so much for a yard with say a 20x40m arena with a crap surface that is bog for half of the year and a dustbowl for the other half. I also expect to pay more for yards where the fields and fencing are maintained properly.

I've moved around a fair bit with work and have been on a few yards. What I've usually seen is that YOs start out with grand plans and can't do enough for you but after a couple of years, I guess they realise how much it truly costs to run a yard and the service goes down. If I the yard service has been excellent and gradually becomes bad but the price doesn't change (or it goes up, which I have experienced), I would rather that the YO actually explained to liveries that it is because things are more expensive (electricity, feed, bedding, water if you're on a meter etc). Problems usually occur because YOs realise how much running a yard costs, they start doing less and less for the often-increasing amount they charge and begin to resent the liveries because they are having to do more work to make their money. In turn, liveries resent the YO for putting up prices while the quality of service reduces so you end up with everyone moaning.

Yes people need to realise how much it costs to run a yard but at the same time, there are a lot of YOs out there who need to remember liveries are their *customers*. It is the hard earned cash of the liveries who make it possible for the yard to keep the lights on. I see how some YOs behave and think that if I treated my customers that way, I wouldn't have any left...
 
chestnut cob said:
IME of livery yards, problems usually occur (and I don't necessarily mean *my* problems, just probs generally) because of poor customer service.

Personally I want the livery prices to reflect the quality of the yard and services. I am happy to pay for good facilities - I would expect to pay more for a yard with a decent arena that is well maintained and wouldn't expect to pay so much for a yard with say a 20x40m arena with a crap surface that is bog for half of the year and a dustbowl for the other half. I also expect to pay more for yards where the fields and fencing are maintained properly.

I've moved around a fair bit with work and have been on a few yards. What I've usually seen is that YOs start out with grand plans and can't do enough for you but after a couple of years, I guess they realise how much it truly costs to run a yard and the service goes down. If I the yard service has been excellent and gradually becomes bad but the price doesn't change (or it goes up, which I have experienced), I would rather that the YO actually explained to liveries that it is because things are more expensive (electricity, feed, bedding, water if you're on a meter etc). Problems usually occur because YOs realise how much running a yard costs, they start doing less and less for the often-increasing amount they charge and begin to resent the liveries because they are having to do more work to make their money. In turn, liveries resent the YO for putting up prices while the quality of service reduces so you end up with everyone moaning.

Yes people need to realise how much it costs to run a yard but at the same time, there are a lot of YOs out there who need to remember liveries are their *customers*. It is the hard earned cash of the liveries who make it possible for the yard to keep the lights on. I see how some YOs behave and think that if I treated my customers that way, I wouldn't have any left...
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This, in a nutshell!!!
 
Well, here's a short precis of why we are moving . . .

I definitely expect (whatever the cost) livery staff/YO to actually give a damn! I currently pay an average of £400/month for DIY/assisted livery and for that we get:

- good hacking (although there is some roadwork to get there and an additional associated cost for using the forestry land)
- 20 x 40 outdoor school, excellent all-weather surface and mirrors - it is lit but badly - lights cost £1/hour
- round pen/lunging arena
- summer jumping field (full set of jumps and bank)
- summer dressage arena
- post and rail fencing (with electrics)
- good grazing (I'm having to restrict my boy's turnout) but tracks to winter fields are incredibly poached in winter
- brick built stables with automatic waterers
- wash down area (cold water only)
- locked/alarmed tack room with seating area, kettle, microwave, sink
- on-site toilet/changing area
- four kinds of bedding (flax, rapasorb, excel and straw - varying from £4.00/bale to £9.00/bale)
- hay (currently £5.00/bale - going up to £7.00/bale)
- extras (bring in/turn out/rug/boots/muck and skip out/prep and give feed/hold for farrier and vet) vary in cost but my EA (extra assistance) bill is generally no less than £100/month and that's them only doing one end of the day, 5 days/week
- I also pay my trainer to school him three days a week - and she mucks him out for me on a Monday

Pretty good facilities, right? What we don't have is consistency in staff - my boy is a pig in his box and I find that some people just do a really poor job of mucking him out while others do it well (which ends up costing me more for bedding) - and there is sometimes a distinct lack of "care." A few examples:

- In all the snow and ice, NONE of the hard standing on main yard was cleared to make it safe for the horses to go out - even just to the round pen or the school so the horses could have a mooch while we mucked out. Yard/hard standing by YO's horses was cleared - rest of yard was not - and when we proposed putting down dirty bedding to make safe walkways that was actively discouraged. Also, we were not allowed to put salt down, resulting in dangerous surfaces for humans as well as horses. The result? A horse (admittedly old and infirm) slipped and fell on the ice, couldn't get up and had to be PTS.

- My horse has just started going out again after four weeks' box rest (received nasty kick in the field). He can be a little stressy and has apparently been hooning around - no'one at yard (staff/management) bothered to let me know. One particular morning he was really working himself into a lather (literally - he was sweating/steaming) so two liveries went to YM to let her know. Despite him being in the book to be brought in anyway - and knowing that we've been being very careful with him b/c of the suspected fracture - her response was "well, I'm not working right now - I'm going out for a hack - why don't you leave him and see what he does!" She then left the yard (for a hack on her own horse) for AN HOUR. The liveries caught him and brought him in, removed his boots, hosed his legs, put a thermatex on him and tucked him up in his box. I only found out about this two days later when I next went up to the yard (I work during the week) and one of the two liveries let me know. I would have expected/hoped that the YM would have texted me just to let me know he had been being silly. Thing is, these liveries took care of him b/c they are kind people - but I'm not paying them to care for my horse - I pay the YM!

- On Saturday I found a two-foot-long, rusted length of metal pipe (possibly from a gate) with VERY sharp ends protruding about four inches out of a haynet the yard had filled some time on Friday. I get that odd things turn up in hay - and I get that YO isn't responsible - but when I told her about it/showed it to her so that she could warn the liveries to be vigilant about checking their hay she was extremely defensive and dismissive - to the point of being rude.

- When a fellow livery had to have her beloved mare PTS after a long illness, YO asked that she settle up her final acount. The balance? 50p.

We're moving to a new yard a week on Saturday. He'll be on full livery. Huge brick-built stables, straw, hay/haylage, hard feed, feet picked out, mucked a.m. and skipped out p.m., rugged/booted/bandaged as required, rugs changed as weather requires - even in field, turned out/brought in, farrier/vet/dentist/physio all arranged and attended for, manes/tails pulled, clipping done, tack cleaned weekly, covered/lit wash down area (hot and cold water - shampoo/towels/sweat scraper provided), huuuuuuuge outdoor school, covered lunge arena, canter track, solarium, cross country course, jumping paddock and dressage arena in summer, 50+ private acres to hack on - all included. The only extras are shoes, vet, dentist, supplements and schooling (by my trainer - who will also be caring for him) . . . and when I add everything up it's the same as I'm currently spending.

Honestly, what owners want is to feel a) that they're getting value for money; and b) that YOs (and the folks caring for our horses) care. We get that it's a business . . . but we have our horses on assisted/part or full livery because we can't do it all for ourselves - and we want to be able to trust the people taking care of our horses.

P
 
Omi49 said:
Am I the only one who is fed up with keep paying out and not receiving much for my money and the feeling that they have you over a barrel.
Some of us are actually good clients to have, tidy, pay ontime etc but still that isn't enough for some yard owners..
Fed up in Bramshill!
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I'm on a large yard in Surrey. The yard owner is a bit laid back and most of the staff are inefficient. We have a really nice school but with a terrible surface and the yard owner has been asked if she is willing to make improvements with it but she has been non comittal up to date. The yard itself is in a brilliant location and close to 3 really good event centres. But the extras that we have to pay such as turning out/bringing in and having to pay an extortionate amount of money for trailer spacing makes it very expensive, particuarlly if you are on DIY which I was for a short time with my mare.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
I have my own place and absolutely refuse to do liveries. I used to but its not worth it. Nobody wants to pay a true cost,think I was running it for fun and not profit and didnt realise the cost of new fencing,repairs insurance etc etc. Then there was the non payers,thouse who wouldnt feed their horses enough hay ,skimpy dirty beds, especially around Christmas time,but all going out partying and buying presents. I just gave up and made them all go away. I enjoy my free space and time with my own horses now. Much better.
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Totally with you on this. I stopped doing liveries too...hassle no end. I found that people expected something for nothing. Much easier without.
 
oh Lord, have just read through all the replies, to the lady in scotland I wish you all the best and your yard sounds lovely.
To the lady (I presume) whos moving a week saturday, I'm sure you and your horse will be much happier.
I am currently looking for another yard as is a lot of the other liveries at the yard, most of us get the feeling the YO is not interested in the yard anymore just the cash, which is such a shame.
Has anyone thought of setting up a business in training YO's in customer service!!!
 
OMI 49 - I think that is a great idea :) im hoping that my time working in customer service for a glazing company and also working with brides in the bridal shop i work at will stand me in good stead . Brides right before there wedding can be very stressed so i hope that i have learned alot from them regarding giving good customer service. I find 1...2....3....4....5...and breath a good thing before i respond to some requests i get from brides:eek: hopfully this will carry over well for my livery customers :) ps send any livery's my way if you can :D

xxxx J
 
Cazza525 said:
Totally with you on this. I stopped doing liveries too...hassle no end. I found that people expected something for nothing. Much easier without.
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Sadly I agree too. We now have several empty stables, but peace and quiet and no worries! Occasionally I think about it when someone I know asks if we would consider having them, but my husband goes mad - "Please don't do that to us again...!"
 
Sadly we have the horses and need the land,while yard owners have the land and often use our needs as an advantage.Some yards are ok but the usual cliques and politics can affect the smooth running of things.Also not all yards have consistant rules for all.I have no issues with well run yards and realise YO's have to make a living otherwise it's pointless running a yard.Often it's the liveries who tend to create problems.
 
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