Yard Prices - Fed Up

The yard I am at now is apparently run on a rather casual basis, and as I am used to tidy and neat etc, it is a bit of a culture shock, but the YO can't do enough for us, and the horses are his priority, I had to leave my boy totally in his care [due to an accident], even though I am DIY, and have had no worries. I text any q's to him and get an immediate response.
I don't think it would work on a very large yard, but it works in this one.
 
MrsD123 said:
The yard I am at now is apparently run on a rather casual basis, and as I am used to tidy and neat etc, it is a bit of a culture shock, but the YO can't do enough for us, and the horses are his priority, I had to leave my boy totally in his care [due to an accident], even though I am DIY, and have had no worries. I text any q's to him and get an immediate response.
I don't think it would work on a very large yard, but it works in this one.
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That's really the key. I used to pay over £1000 pm for 2 horses for 5 day part livery+extra services. The yard had OK facilities but there were much more glam and shiny places locally. While I occasionally didnt see eye to eye with the YO in the 8 years we were there, thats inevitable and what I did always know was that even where we disagreed, her viewpoint was based on what she believed was in the best interests of my horses, and also that she cared for them exactly as though they were her own.

To me, working full time, that meant more than whether it was good value or things were maintained properly or whatever.

That alone was my criterion in judging the yard.

Now I have only myself to argue with as the horses are at home!(we moved to Scotland!)
 
Tinkerbee said:
You could set up your own yard and see if you can do it cheaper. ;)
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I don't think its about having cheap care, we all want value for money and to get what we are paying for.
I bet none of us would put up with shoddy service and food in a restaurant, yet many people seem to put up with schools that can't be used for half a year (me included), broken fencing or inconsistent care for our horsey babies.
I am friends with people who own yards, I do appreciate the costs involved and that its a 24/7 job but if I am paying the YO to feed and turn out my horse I expect it to be done - in the same why my employers expect me to turn up and do my job!
 
Last year I had to move my horses because the yard I'd happily been at for 20 years was closing down. For family reasons I needed to be in a certain area, so moved to a small completely DIY yard in beautiful countryside, part of an old farm with a big period farmhouse house. There are nice stables, lovely hacking and very few rules, but no arena and absolutely no assistance. The other livery owner is great, and she and I have kept the yard clean and tidy, poo-picked rigorously, looked after our horses very well, and always paid on time, by bank standing order. The charges are top-end for DIY in this area.

However, we are both leaving this month. The set-up has become a nightmare, for a whole clutch of reasons already mentioned in this thread. There is no plan of maintenance for pastures or fencing. So small fence problems quickly become big fence problems. There is no harrowing, rolling, topping or re-seeding. There is some spraying by a commercial company, but the results seem patchy. Ragwort is a major issue, and it is not being dealt with adequately. There is no system for dealing with the muck heap. Our only area of hard standing has been taken over by a huge pile of rubbish (cardboard boxes for electrical appliances etc)

The owner is a wealthy businessman who does no work on the property himself, and seems not to notice or care what's going on with his infrastructure.

As for customer service, there is none. I asked the owner if he'd like to chat through my experiences as a customer on his livery yard and his response was 'I am not a livery yard owner.' He then gave me notice to quit. He says things like 'Horses are not my priority.' and 'If you pay for Easyjet you can't expect Club Class service.' He seems not to understand that Easyjet succeeds by doing the basics well, something he has largely failed to do.

I conclude that all the owner was ever interested in was our monthly rent, and maybe some fantasy of being able to look at horses grazing on his land. He is not imho either competent or capable of being able to run a yard, whether as a hobby or a real business. So I've put it down to experience and cannot wait to be at the new yard, which is run as a tight ship on professional lines by hard-working people who really love horses.
 
Cool that is good to hear.
I have stables, wash bay, sand yards, concrete tie up area, tack room, feed room, grass dressage arena and show jumping area (summer) with a sand arena 5min walk up the road, good road riding and the forest and beach are 15min drive away.

I live on site and also have a breeding business.

My agisting people pay $37NZ per week which I am assuming is inexpensive compared to the UK?????

M
 
I've no idea how prices would compare between here and NZ, but you are lucky in that there's much fewer people there so more ground to go round!

I do think there are lots of livery clients out there who expect an awful lot for very little money and I have started threads about that before. There are, however, some greedy YOs out there. IMO, these are the ones who cram as many horses as they can on little acreage, they don't care about the state of their fields or worm burdens or that horses may get injured through fighting 'cause there's too many in a small space. A fried of mine was on such a yard - she moved her horses when they had a dangerously high worm count just AFTER she'd wormed them! :eek:

I am lucky, I get mate's rates on a farm where there is plenty of grazing to go round, fields are rested so are never horse sick and I don't have to share a field with anyone unless I choose to.
 
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Im not sure it is really that relevant comparing UK with NZ, we are an overcrowded island and land costs are huge, as is the regulation and costs of proper livery yards (eg £10,000s in business rates, £300 odd to remove the muck heap). All of that is reflected in the livery prices, and is inescapable.

The main justified complaints in UK are not about costs as such (or shouldnt be, since I havent met many millionaire YOs) but where a paid for service isnt delivered or where standards start off well but then slip over time.

Shortcomings in maintenance are often the result of the fact that all those things cost an awful lot of money, probably not covered by the livery fees sufficiently, and while it would be better if YOs were more accurate in reflecting the costs in the livery charges so those things did happen, in many cases they would price themselves out of the market for clients if they did so. Tricky one.
 
Yes for the initial concern there is no benefit in comparing UK to NZ but for me living in NZ it gives me an appreciation as to what your costs are :)

We are very lucky to have mainly mild winters and lots of grazing land.

I agree that if I paid a higher price for top facilities I would expect the grounds to be kept perfect and a maintenance program to be in place.

Thanks
M
 
cbmcts said:
I think that a lot of the problems on yards are because they are not run or presented professionally.

You go and see a new yard and you're told that this is available, that isn't a problem and that certain facilities (all year turnout anybody?) are a given. You can do a certain amount of research but that isn't infallible so you have to take the YOs word to an extent. Most of the time the YOs don't intend to lie but when they have empty stables they want to fill them. Then after you have spent time, money and stress moving you discover that there are caveats so resentment sets in.

Remember that moving a horse isn't as easy as deciding to shop in a different supermarket but horse owners are consumers - they are paying for a service.
I have never been on yard that has a livery contract so I can't comment whether that would save misunderstandings.

Can I add that I'm not unreasonable, don't think that it's all about meeeeeee and that I'm very clear about what I need on a yard - not looking for x country course, set of show jumps, indoor school, hanging baskets etc but do need turnout, no rigid opening/closing times and a non leaky stable...

Oh and if a livery is taking the pee about something could YOs please man up and deal with that person rather than taking a passive aggressive approach and punishing the whole yard for that persons wrongdoing!

Possibly more yards would become viable businesses if they were run on a pay per use basis ie lower base price for stable, water, electric and turnout and then a weekly/monthly charge for everything else from trailer parking, proper secure tack room, schools, services, bedding, hay. If you want to buy your own for the last two - you could pay for a storage space. Very different from what most of us are used to but when I looked at buying a yard a few years back I had more or less decided that was what I would do if I had gone ahead. The reasoning was that if you had a retired/pet type you wouldn't pay a fortune but peeps who wanted more could have it and hopefully the yard would have appealed to more 'types' of riders. I have to say that I never did the number crunching for the above in huge detail as the mortgage required made it impossible to proceed.
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Perfectly put.
 
The last sentence just about sums it up then doesnt it. "The mortgage required made it impossible to proceed" YO's also have to pay a mortgage, & even if for whatever reason the property is paid for it still has to earn an amount to be serviceable to it's value. I believe a contract is necessary, & do not allow anyone on my yard without them reading the brochure & signing a contract stating they have read & understood the terms & conditions. The fact is you can not please everyone all of the time. I set up the type of yard that I wanted, mainly for competition horses that require 1st class facilities. If someone wants to join & be a happy hacker thatis fine, but it is not any cheaper. If all you want is a field & stable in winter then find a yard that supplies only that facility& charges accordingly.
 
gingerninja11 said:
I don't think its about having cheap care, we all want value for money and to get what we are paying for.
I bet none of us would put up with shoddy service and food in a restaurant, yet many people seem to put up with schools that can't be used for half a year (me included), broken fencing or inconsistent care for our horsey babies.
I am friends with people who own yards, I do appreciate the costs involved and that its a 24/7 job but if I am paying the YO to feed and turn out my horse I expect it to be done - in the same why my employers expect me to turn up and do my job!
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^^^^ This :) Very few people mind paying for a service (yes, I know there a few who expect all for nowt but they are a minority) but nobody likes feeling that they are being ripped off!.

Freshman

The mortgage required was a problem not because of paying it back but more because I was intending the yard to be a Ltd business in it's own right and raising funds on that basis as a new company required my partner and I to use our personal assets (homes!!) as security. Kinda ruins the point of a Ltd company doesn't it?

I do agree wholeheartedly that it is very difficult to succeed when your competitors are not on a level playing field regarding insurance etc.
 
cbmcts said:
^^^^ This :) Very few people mind paying for a service (yes, I know there a few who expect all for nowt but they are a minority) but nobody likes feeling that they are being ripped off!.

Freshman

The mortgage required was a problem not because of paying it back but more because I was intending the yard to be a Ltd business in it's own right and raising funds on that basis as a new company required my partner and I to use our personal assets (homes!!) as security. Kinda ruins the point of a Ltd company doesn't it?

I do agree wholeheartedly that it is very difficult to succeed when your competitors are not on a level playing field regarding insurance etc.
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On this occasion my point was regarding the financing. Whilst you may prefer your business to be a Ltd company, in the present economic climate I can well inderstand that lenders would want some security including your personal assets (homes) otherwise it is too easy to bail out when the business doesn't go according to plan. The fact remains that whilst one would like to give such varied levels of service it is actually impossible. Can you imagine a business plan that reads: I want to provide. Arenas @ a cost of £ xxxxx Storage @ a cost of £xxxxx Tack rooms @ a cost of £xxxxxx hard standing for box/trailor parking @ a cost of £xxxx Oh & btw if I remain full with liveries wanting all of the services I will Nett £2000.00 per month, whereas if I am full with no one wanting more than a field in summer & a stable in winter, (even though I have invested £200,000 in other services) I will Nett £500.00 per month. !!! Apart from the cost of monitoring who was using what, & when it just would not stack up for finance.
 
Maybe, maybe not Freshman:)

I certainly needed to do a lot more number crunching but there were various pros and cons. This yard had an incredible amount of turnout (especially for the South East) but relatively little space on the yard itself. PP to expand the yard would difficult, if not impossible to obtain. Max of 25 stables and over 80 acres, it also had an agricultural tie so diversity was essential - grass/broodmare/retirement livery and sheep/beef cattle were going to be important income streams. There were also listed buildings that couldn't be converted to stables but as they were in good repair they also would have had to earn their keep somehow! Not your typical yard much more like a working farm in honesty so maybe not comparable to be fair.

All academic now but I still know people there and know the new YO who have contented themselves with 20 liveries and are now complaining to all and sundry about how they are going broke...but they are spending hours topping this land as most of it is unused - in the South East FGS :confused: Land/turnout is like gold dust for 50 miles round here.
 
misst said:
I think people are unrealistic about how much things really cost. Yards are there to make a profit - no one runs one for fun. If they do not keep up maintainance and facilities then move! If the next yard is better but more expensive that proves the point - it costs money to do these things. Wages, insurance, materials, feed, services etc have all increased everywhere so why would yards be any different? If they do not make a profit they will close.
I believe, as a client, (and a good one) that it is up to me where I spend my money and how much I spend. The yard offers a service - take it or leave it:)
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THANK-YOU - some one understands !! I have a livery yard and clients just do not appreciate the costs that I have to bear and absorb costs when services, and feed stuffs etc go up - but I can't put my prices up everytime!

And then there is the mysterious breakages that No one knows about !!

The broken loo seat
Blocked Drain
Blocked Loo
Hosepipe split
broken catches
Broken tap
bent gate
Guttering brought down by someone's dodgy reversing.
the broken fence again by parking trailers resting on fence
Loo Roll - what do people do with it all !!


The extras people assume .. Grit and salt provided in large mountain size piles when icy/snow
Water on tap 'literally' by not offering to pay a bit towards extra water used when they want to wash their cars and trailers.

School surface top up - £2000 - it has to be reaped from somewhere !

I am not moaning but it's nice to know a handful of people are aware of the hidden costs
we bear !

It's hard to make a small profit let alone a living out of livery. That's why we have add on's - shows, lessons etc - and for the record I do plough money back into maintence and invest in improvements - mainly from my friendly bank manager and his signature on my over draft !!
 
abina said:
THANK-YOU - some one understands !! I have a livery yard and clients just do not appreciate the costs that I have to bear and absorb costs when services, and feed stuffs etc go up - but I can't put my prices up everytime!

And then there is the mysterious breakages that No one knows about !!

The broken loo seat
Blocked Drain
Blocked Loo
Hosepipe split
broken catches
Broken tap
bent gate
Guttering brought down by someone's dodgy reversing.
the broken fence again by parking trailers resting on fence
Loo Roll - what do people do with it all !!


The extras people assume .. Grit and salt provided in large mountain size piles when icy/snow
Water on tap 'literally' by not offering to pay a bit towards extra water used when they want to wash their cars and trailers.

School surface top up - £2000 - it has to be reaped from somewhere !

I am not moaning but it's nice to know a handful of people are aware of the hidden costs
we bear !

It's hard to make a small profit let alone a living out of livery. That's why we have add on's - shows, lessons etc - and for the record I do plough money back into maintence and invest in improvements - mainly from my friendly bank manager and his signature on my over draft !!
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^^^^LIKE^^^^
 
what annoys me most is when basics aren't met, like adequate fencing. I know I could move yards BUT if they would just sort out the fencing and haylage all would be great.

I think I am reluctant to move because I once left a lovely yard after an argument over the new top up to school surface, I said it was dangerous with nails etc. YO would not listen so I moved. A few weeks later they found out company had delivered crushed pallets inc nails, by mistake. So I didn't need to leave after all, I am worried the same will happen this time.
 
The way I think about it is that If I want to park my car for 3 hours in town it costs me a fiver, so to say my horse is 'parked' on someone elses land 24 hours a day 7 days a week I don't think £30 or so a week is bad value for money.

Horses are expensive but you should also receive a good service, or at least be treated as a paying customer (vie been on a couple of yards where u are treated as an inconvenience :( ) I do think that there are some bad yo that cause generalisation. I moved to a yard that was cheaper, not to save money but because the other yard was falling apart and the owner sat in the house 24/7 ignoring liveries attempts to discuss things. My new yard is fantastic and I've never been happier :) being on a nice friendly yard has resparked my love of horses and my oh is happy I'm no longer coming him from the yard upset or moaning!

Just to add nice yards are out there! It can just take time to find a balance of finances and facilities.

Good luck with the move x
 
I can now report that I have found a new yard and will be moving shortly. So fingers crossed we will settle into the new yard quickly, and I get my MOJO back with my riding...
 
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