Yay, another what to feed a TB thread...

[TPO]

16.3hh 12yr old ex racer not in work. Grass has been destroyed with all the rain and most of it is now underwater.

TB in at night with adlib steamed hay. Currently gets 2 feeds a day (3 isnt possible sadly as that would help). Turned out with hay but would rather pick at what grass there is than stand at hay for long. He's rugged according to the weather, unclipped and hates being hot so will remove his own rugs (no idea how!) if he decides he's warm enough thanks ?

He is fed twice a day:
Salt
Progressive earth pro balance
Science supplements gastric supp
Keyflow pink mash
Grass nut
Dengie meadow chaff
Micronised linseed

He's had vet check at vaccination time and teeth are up to date. Worm counts always clear and another due later this month. I dont believe there's anything sinister going on we've just had a rubbish time with rain affecting the grass and the constant rain in general since the "summer".

He's not a greedy horse and the volume of feed needed to keep him from running a bit too light is over facing him (& getting ridiculous). I increased linseed a bit too much, to reduce volume of grass nuts, and it blew his tiny brain so that isn't a long term option.

So my question is what "ulcer friendly" calorie dense, low sugar/starch feeds do you feed with success?

I've been reading through the ingredients and analysis for loads of different feeds and my own tiny brain is blown ? I know there have been threads on here of feeds that don't look great on paper but do the job I need; I just cant find those threads right now....

I recall a mash being mentioned but I've searched all the feeds I can find that fit that description and nothing jumped out.

Would ERS cubes be an option?

Previously fed rice bran with no success.

Short version: TB fed grass nuts/pink mash/chaff/linseed diet twice daily but needs more "safe" calories from a less voluminous feed

TIA ?

 

[be positive]

My oldie does not get chaff in his feed, he is not fussy but to me the chaff adds very little value so if 3 feeds is not an option cut back on the chaff and increase the grassnuts which have a higher value and do not increase the chew time as much as chaff does, the ones I give chaff to are the fatties so they think they are getting fed.
The other thing to consider it getting a few small bales of haylage to see if that gets him eating more forage which would help, my boy doesn't eat much hay/ haylage overnight compared with the others and I have tried a few different options which has helped.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Haylage? You don't need to feed rye, maybe a meadowgrass mix.

Switching from hay in the field to haylage has helped my anglo as it is more tempting to eat, so she eats more.

Does yours eat up the hard feeds? I've had the issue of that not happening but I now add oats which she loves and that makes her eat up better.

RE rugs, do they have leg straps? I have found that rugs with fillet strings can easily blow off a horse when it is windy. The horse puts its bum towards the wind as normal, the wind lifts the back of the rug up and over the horse's head. Rug is on the ground with all straps done up, but the horse didn't actually get out of it on purpose. Now when it's windy I always use rugs with leg straps (although I have heard of horses getting out of those too, I've not seen it).

 

[TPO]

Thanks @bepositive

Hes not a fan of damp feeds so he literally gets a handful of chaff to mix it through to a consistency that is pleasing to him ?

My issue is that grass nuts fed at the quantity required is too big a feed. Even at that volume he drops off a little. I dont mind them dropping during winter as they are supposed to but hes just a smidge lighter than I'm happy with.

So ideally looking to be able to drop volume of grass nuts and feed something more calorie dense that doesnt blow his brain, upset his digestive system or negatively affect his hooves. Simples...?

 

[milliepops]

what was the issue with the ricebran before? no difference or didn't like it? only asking as I've topped Darcy up with Omega Rice which is RB and linseed combined in a pellet which he has eaten up this winter.

(I break all the rules with him and he just has the spillers conditioning cubes dry with nothing else other than the Omega Rice it's what he likes and he's done really well on it though it is not what I would have chosen, obv! )

 

[TPO]

Thanks @Meowy Catkin

Haylage isnt a real option. If things were dire he could get it in the stable but putting it out in the field is a no go since fat cob joined the ranks!

Really just looking to change bucket feed volume if possible

Re rugs...he gets out of leg strap rugs too. No idea how! He's unclipped and has a decent coat with a mane to rival any native so try to rug him the lightest weight possible. Hes always warm when checked so I dont think it's being cold that affecting his weight this year. Temps this year have been fairly mild just so wet. Hes generally in 220gm and his heaviest is 300gm for end of the world days.

 

[TPO]

@milliepops fed keyflow ricebran and made no difference condition wise.

Tried speedibeet too but ultimately settled on a base of pink mash and topped up with grass nuts when he needed extra. Even although it is lower calorie he seemed to do better and get more out of pink mash.

Rice bran was fed along with pink mash.

Yeah I'm tempted to just chuck him on a conditioning cube but his feet have been a battle along with ulcers so I worry about rocking the boat too much.

Ignorance was bliss! He'd have been on alfa, beet and a cube back in the day before I had to go and learn about "better ways" ha ha

 

[milliepops]

Ignorance was bliss! He'd have been on alfa, beet and a cube back in the day before I had to go and learn about "better ways" ha ha

hehe, I know exactly how you feel. D won't eat anything chaffy or soggy so I had to accept defeat and try it his way, tbf to spillers the digest+ cubes do actually seem to be doing a good job. I ummed and ahhed about swapping to Baileys Ease & Excel as that has similar with the probiotics etc but also has some tum-friendly pectins etc but I wasn't sure about the texture for him... but I now see they are doing it just as a cube which I am certain I could wean him onto. So that may also be a consideration (also lower starch than the spillers).

I had never anticipated going back to compound feeds but I think they are coming on a bit these days.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I would be tempted to try haylage in the stable as it made such a difference to mine.

Poor doers are extremely frustrating, especially when they won't eat the (perfectly good) food you provide. I think that it can be a very individual thing to get the diet right and so trial and error is involved.

Have you tried adding oil to his feed? I have used vegetable oil from the supermarket before and she would eat it as long as the magic oats were there. I don't know if this would make the feed too soggy for your horse but it might be a cheap thing to try anyway.

 

[dixie]

I’ve not used it but have heard good things about Saracens Equi Jewel.

 

[Ambers Echo]

When Deedee needed to gain weight but already had enough volume I added linseed oil on advice of vet.
Otherwise she was on pink mash, balancer and hay.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

TPO, have you tried any of the veteran feeds?
Only mentioning this as most of the above feeds I tried on B Fuzzy last winter, aged rising 9 then and the only thing that did make a change was the Pure veteran mix and adding haylage to her evening net to 50/50 with hay for a month. (Check out the listed contents on line)
I've kept her on the mix this winter along with a small amount of Ulcerkind nuts and she has maintained weight. Not fat at all but fit and looking right. I feed her adlib hay too.
It doesn't seem to blow her brain either, a few feeds mentioned above did. Conditioning nuts got me nowhere.

Good luck with whatever you find to suit x

 

[ycbm]

If his lungs will take it I would stop steaming the hay. Heating up carbs then letting them go cool can reduce the calorie content.

My TB can't manage anything with soya in, which is most conditioning feeds. He's doing really well on 3kg grass nuts and 400ml rapeseed oil split between two feeds. I soak one kilo of the cubes to prevent choke when he's eating the rest mixed in. Plus adlib haylage 6pm - 9am

.

 

[AnShanDan]

Baileys outshine is the highest calorie feed we found for friend's v old boy who needs fattening up. She'd had him on extra oil poured over but he went off that.
He gets 7 x250g cups in 3 feeds and that is the equivalent of about 10000 calories per day extra. It's like smallish pellets, baileys sent my friend out a few samples so she could try him with it, he can be fussy. He's eating it really well.

 

[daydreamer]

My veteran TB is on a diet similar to yours (balancer, grass nuts, grass chaff and m.linseed). He lost a bit of condition this winter so I added equijewel which did help put the weight back on.

 

[TPO]

Thanks for all the replies

As usual I dont think I worded my OP very well and expected you all to be mind readers. Sorry!

He's generally a pretty good doer but just ran a little lighter than ideal this year due to the effect all of the rain and flooding has had on the grass.

His weight has been managed by increasing the quantity of linseed (slightly as too much blew his tiny TB brain) and grass nuts. However these feeds are now too big and as he's not a greedy horse (although he's not what I would call fussy) I think these feeds are over facing him.

He had a wind op while in racing so steamed hay is much better for him. My horse also has mild asthma so they all get steamed or soaked hay (& dust extracted bedding) in an attempt to help as our stables are internal monarchs so very open.

That's interesting about the calorie change in steamed hay. Is there a link to that info @ycbm ? The reason fat cob still gets soaked hay is because everything that I could find said that steaming hay had negligible effect on calorie content. It would make life simpler if steaming sid reduce calories and sugars so that fat cob could go onto it too.

So yeah, sorry, my question was really for feed suggestions so that I could feed less with the same/greater calorie content but feed has to be ulcer/hooves/tiny brain safe.

I read up a bit more about Baileys Ease & Excel after @milliepops ' post and we're going to try that. I will reduce the quantity of grass nuts as E&E is introduced and maybe look to remove pink mash completely if all goes well.

Thanks for the suggestions and for attempting to be mind readers! I'll work on my posting technique ?

 

[milliepops]

I know it's been working for another HHOer so fingers crossed. I'm going to see if my feed merchants can get the new cubes in for me.

 

[ycbm]

Theres quite a bit of stuff online about a 10-12.% reduction in pasta and rice carbs if they are heated and cooled, even more if they are frozen and reheated.

This is a simple one, there are more scientific ones:


https://www.sciencealert.com/heating-your-pasta-makes-it-significantly-better-for-you?ignore_amp

.

 

[TPO]

Theres quite a bit of stuff online about a 10-12.% reduction in pasta and rice carbs if they are heated and cooled, even more if they are frozen and reheated.

This is a simple one, there are more scientific ones:


https://www.sciencealert.com/heating-your-pasta-makes-it-significantly-better-for-you?ignore_amp

.

Ah right , thanks.

I dont think that translates to hay. Everything that I can find says that the WSC are not significantly reduced (to a suitable level for a metabolically compromised/laminitic horse) by steaming alone.

 

[Squeak]

I've used GWF Nutrition's feed programme, (Equilibra, Low Starch Fibregest, tiger oats and alf alfa) with great success particularly for a horse that like yours wasn't a big eater and most feeds blew his brain.

It's designed to be fed in small quantities and has had a lot of research go in to it to ensure it is good for ulcers and digestion etc.

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

Topspec Ulsakind are conditioning and low in sugar/starch which is a good thing, how much micronized linseed are you feeding ? perhaps you could increase that?