Yea saac needing a home and poorly pony

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OscarandPenny

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Hi all,

Not sure if I am able to post this so please remove if not.

I have rather poorly TB suffering with IBD (only answer they can give me) and have been trying anything and everything to try and stop his scouring and get some hair and condition back on him.
Tumors haven't been ruled out however that would involve rectal biopsies and the treatment is steriods regardless. The only progress was with 10ml IM steroid per day, 8 60mg coedine per day and removal from grass! He is a stresy tb that refuses to eat point blank if stabled 24/7 and will eat 1/2 small slice of hay overnight if out through the day so that isnt an option. Persevered for a month and he became skeletal!

Pure feeds - wont touch fatty now using this up
Equitop Myoplast will take a tiny amount
Yea saac - won't touch so I have 3.5 kg minus a few scoops from Progressive earth needing a home (pm me)
Solution Mash - not keen

He is now being fed hi fi senior and build and glow.
He is being incredibly picky and will only eat small amounts. THe most I can give is 3 feeds per day, 2 of those on an evening. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions please get in touch.


I am desperate now! Sorry for long post
 
Queenbee on here had similar issues with her mare, I'm sure she wouldn't mind you asking what helped with hers, I'd drop her a pm. :)
 
Do you have any grass free turn out?

Protexin do a pro and pre biotic paste that you syringe in - may be worth a look if he won't eat yea sacc. Ulcerex from Ron fields nutrition is good - if he'll eat it.
 
I would try clay, either kaolin or bentonite. Protexin makes Pro-kolin+ against foals scours, you could see with your vet about trying that (it has prebiotics, probiotics, kaolin and pectin). If on a budget, I know of an inexpensive food grade supplier of bentonite, I can give you info by PM. I think activated charcoal is more efficient against gas than scours.
Another soothing supplement is aloe vera but haven't tried it myself.

ETA: I have had no problem with my picky eater for clay and charcoal, I don't think they have any strong taste or smell.
 
Grass free isn't an option and would be pointless anyway as he just refuses to eat hay and sulks and will do so long term. That is also the problem with stabling. I looked into protexin but on further investigation they removed the live yeast cultures so was advised against it! I will have another look though and see what the paste has in

Thanks guys. Just after some long term hope for improving him
 
Hi there, have had a bit of a think for you and here are my suggestions. I will say my mare was not scouring... Very much the opposite, her stools were too hard, but the premis is the same:

You say you're considering naff products, I wouldn't bother, get some protexin and feed this at top rate as your probiotic its by far the best.

Get a good blood tonic, I reccomend haemavite b plus , its used in the racing industry and for sick horses, it aids oxygenation of the cells, boosts the immune system, boosts appetite, enhances gut function and counters anaemia. All of the above are things that your horse needs support with.

Get some peppermint, it has a calming and soothing effect on the digestive tract.

Invest in a good all round supplement.

Mix the supplement, peppermint, tonic (which is syrup based) and protexin together, add water to make into a paste and syringe into the horse.

Feed all feed from an elevated level. Eating from the ground when ill can be particularly difficult for horses and can have a negative effect on their appetite.

Invest in some speedie beet (not sugar beet) as an additional source of fibre and I'd also look at feeds that you don't have to feed so much of for example baileys outshine that way you only have to feed a cup vs a scoop... Far easier for a fussy horse. And you can hand feed these as treats. If needs bee, soak the balancer to a slop, get a big syringe and syringe down the throat. Also, mollichaff, I'm not a great fan because it contains molasses, however mollichaff condition has fantastic reviews, it contains less sugar and in the end all my mare would eat was mollichaff, and she would eat it!

With any feed, ensure its a slop, this is much easier to digest, it takes far less calories.

Someone mentioned charcoal... Paste this and syringe in too if necessary.

Do not worm again while your horse is like this, it will aggravate the gut wall. Stick to blood tests for tape worm and worm counts.

If you can get your horse in, get some fast fibre and feed as a forage replacer, even if you have to put a couple of scoops of chaff into it to make it more tastey, again elevate this to a more comfortable level. And see your horse will eat this while in.

If you manage to get your horse in and eating, this is best as you can really control and monitor things, just try it for 24 hrs with fast fibre instead of hay, if it doesn't work, turn out. If it does work, keep him in, on the above supplements, dietary additions etc, but make sure you take him out for a mooch around in hand.

If you have any country lanes around walk him in hand down there, pay attention to what your horse eats from the hedgerows, this can tell you a lot. My mare had a real thing for cow parsley which (if I remember correctly) is a digestive/soothing aid, and willow shoots which are a natural painkiller. If you have some willow trees around, go cut off all the new shoots for him.

Be aware that your horse will get cold with the reduction in body fat, when my girl was ill, she actually wore a medium weight turnout and a light weight stable rug when in. However, I would go to a local charity shop and get some light cotton sheets that you can put next to her skin with a good old fashioned elasticated surcingle because of the sores. With regards to the sores, clean these well and get a big tub of sudocrem, this will dry them out, keep a barrier from the flies too. The sores would be another concern with regards to turning out.


Right now, the issue could have been triggered by any number of things. It could have been the change in grazing, many times the trigger grazing wise is two months prior to the issue. It could have been worming, your boy had facial swelling from this but it could also have been that the worms caused damage as they left his system. It could as you say be tumours, and sadly in this case, steroids will only buy you precious time. But I'd certainly try all of the above.

Tell your vets you want a referral, or at the least, you want them to send all your horses results and notes up to Liverpool/Newmarket or somewhere else for a fresh set of eyes. If your vets refuse, do it yourself.

I'm sure there will be lots more that pops into my mind, and I will post it on here for you.

Tomorrow morning, ring up the feed stores asking for some samples. Explain your situation and what you are looking for, they will be fantastic, Allen and page gave me a whole bag of fast fibre. Baileys gave me about half a bag of samples, I believe they also sent me some mint.

I have read that some people have had success with ibs horses by going back to basics and feeding small amounts of grain... Little and often. You may want to look into this.

Another question, have you tried treating as if he has ulcers, this may help with calming the inflammation.
 
Queenbee said:
Hi there, have had a bit of a think for you and here are my suggestions. I will say my mare was not scouring... Very much the opposite, her stools were too hard, but the premis is the same:

You say you're considering naff products, I wouldn't bother, get some protexin and feed this at top rate as your probiotic its by far the best.

Get a good blood tonic, I reccomend haemavite b plus , its used in the racing industry and for sick horses, it aids oxygenation of the cells, boosts the immune system, boosts appetite, enhances gut function and counters anaemia. All of the above are things that your horse needs support with.

Get some peppermint, it has a calming and soothing effect on the digestive tract.

Invest in a good all round supplement.

Mix the supplement, peppermint, tonic (which is syrup based) and protexin together, add water to make into a paste and syringe into the horse.

Feed all feed from an elevated level. Eating from the ground when ill can be particularly difficult for horses and can have a negative effect on their appetite.

Invest in some speedie beet (not sugar beet) as an additional source of fibre and I'd also look at feeds that you don't have to feed so much of for example baileys outshine that way you only have to feed a cup vs a scoop... Far easier for a fussy horse. And you can hand feed these as treats. If needs bee, soak the balancer to a slop, get a big syringe and syringe down the throat. Also, mollichaff, I'm not a great fan because it contains molasses, however mollichaff condition has fantastic reviews, it contains less sugar and in the end all my mare would eat was mollichaff, and she would eat it!

With any feed, ensure its a slop, this is much easier to digest, it takes far less calories.

Someone mentioned charcoal... Paste this and syringe in too if necessary.

Do not worm again while your horse is like this, it will aggravate the gut wall. Stick to blood tests for tape worm and worm counts.

If you can get your horse in, get some fast fibre and feed as a forage replacer, even if you have to put a couple of scoops of chaff into it to make it more tastey, again elevate this to a more comfortable level. And see your horse will eat this while in.

If you manage to get your horse in and eating, this is best as you can really control and monitor things, just try it for 24 hrs with fast fibre instead of hay, if it doesn't work, turn out. If it does work, keep him in, on the above supplements, dietary additions etc, but make sure you take him out for a mooch around in hand.

If you have any country lanes around walk him in hand down there, pay attention to what your horse eats from the hedgerows, this can tell you a lot. My mare had a real thing for cow parsley which (if I remember correctly) is a digestive/soothing aid, and willow shoots which are a natural painkiller. If you have some willow trees around, go cut off all the new shoots for him.

Be aware that your horse will get cold with the reduction in body fat, when my girl was ill, she actually wore a medium weight turnout and a light weight stable rug when in. However, I would go to a local charity shop and get some light cotton sheets that you can put next to her skin with a good old fashioned elasticated surcingle because of the sores. With regards to the sores, clean these well and get a big tub of sudocrem, this will dry them out, keep a barrier from the flies too. The sores would be another concern with regards to turning out.


Right now, the issue could have been triggered by any number of things. It could have been the change in grazing, many times the trigger grazing wise is two months prior to the issue. It could have been worming, your boy had facial swelling from this but it could also have been that the worms caused damage as they left his system. It could as you say be tumours, and sadly in this case, steroids will only buy you precious time. But I'd certainly try all of the above.

Tell your vets you want a referral, or at the least, you want them to send all your horses results and notes up to Liverpool/Newmarket or somewhere else for a fresh set of eyes. If your vets refuse, do it yourself.

I'm sure there will be lots more that pops into my mind, and I will post it on here for you.

Tomorrow morning, ring up the feed stores asking for some samples. Explain your situation and what you are looking for, they will be fantastic, Allen and page gave me a whole bag of fast fibre. Baileys gave me about half a bag of samples, I believe they also sent me some mint.

I have read that some people have had success with ibs horses by going back to basics and feeding small amounts of grain... Little and often. You may want to look into this.

Another question, have you tried treating as if he has ulcers, this may help with calming the inflammation.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your time. A few more options to try. I have tried everything feed wise for keeping him in but after a couple of days he just turns evil and rather dangerous to handle so much safer out.

I will phone around tomorrow and try and get more free samples and look into ordering a few more things. Insurance are gnna love me!
All results have been to Liphook and Minster Vets in York as that was where he was admitted to had 3 sets of eyes over everything.

I will keep you posted and see if anything works :o
 
OscarandPenny said:
Thank you so much for your time. A few more options to try. I have tried everything feed wise for keeping him in but after a couple of days he just turns evil and rather dangerous to handle so much safer out.

I will phone around tomorrow and try and get more free samples and look into ordering a few more things. Insurance are gnna love me!
All results have been to Liphook and Minster Vets in York as that was where he was admitted to had 3 sets of eyes over everything.

I will keep you posted and see if anything works :o
Click to expand...

If he is on his own in the field, try providing a forage replacer in a big tub trug (elevated if you can)
 
I would be wary of faffing too much with the food has guts bacteria need time to adapt to a change in diet, particularly Speedibeet and oils can take a bit of time to get used to (a month or two in the case of oil).
The pro-kolin contains the probiotic, peppermint and kao-pectin against the scouring, and it is available has a ready to syringe paste. It will save you money buying a few syringes and see if it works rather than buying tubes of everything to mix yourself. And possibly once your horse feels better he will be keener on his bucket.
The charcoal is another one rather efficient at soothing up and adsorbing the nasties from grass fermentation so perhaps a feed with charcoal and a feed with clays.
 
OscarandPenny said:
I looked into protexin but on further investigation they removed the live yeast cultures so was advised against it!
Click to expand...

Where did you get that info?
Their website list the product has containing 2 x 10^8 CFU/g with "colony-forming unit (CFU) is an estimate of viable bacterial or fungal numbers" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony-forming_unit), meaning each gram of product contains 200 millions colonies of live yeast if I am not mistaken.
 
Never heard that about protexin... I'd reccomend it any day and don't know anyone who has used it that would not reccomend it highly.
 
Palindrome said:
I would be wary of faffing too much with the food has guts bacteria need time to adapt to a change in diet, particularly Speedibeet and oils can take a bit of time to get used to (a month or two in the case of oil).
The pro-kolin contains the probiotic, peppermint and kao-pectin against the scouring, and it is available has a ready to syringe paste. It will save you money buying a few syringes and see if it works rather than buying tubes of everything to mix yourself. And possibly once your horse feels better he will be keener on his bucket.
The charcoal is another one rather efficient at soothing up and adsorbing the nasties from grass fermentation so perhaps a feed with charcoal and a feed with clays.
Click to expand...


Speedie beet is a good way of getting fibre and liquid into a horse that is reluctant to eat, op's main priority is to get this horse eating, certainly in these situations in my experience the rule book to a certain extent goes out of the window, you feed them what they will eat, that is your only priority.
 
are you on a livery or your own place? could you make a track system (google paddock paradise for the kind of thing I mean) to limit the grass. What a rubbish situation for you both :(
 
OscarandPenny said:
Thanks for replies. I have ordered protexin and charcoal to start with and I'll pick up vit b from the tack shop.

D&H and top spec nutritionalists told me the protexin didn't have the live yeast.
Click to expand...
seriously, take my advice, do not bother with vitamin b, get haemavite b plus, it has b vitamins in. I would not consider nursing any kind of sick horse without it, it makes a huge difference.
 
Another thought here, just popped into my mind as I was driving to work. Double check with vet about the charcoal as if on other medication it may affect it. It's used to 'mop stuff up' so may mop up any meds before they work... I'm certain they use it to that effect in hospitals when people have taken OD or too much alcohol
 
Just to second the suggestion of Mollichaff. It was mollichaff that got my fussy feeder eating her bucket feed again. We started with a couple if sample bags of the condition and then switched to the calmer as it has less sugar.
 
Queenbee said:
Another thought here, just popped into my mind as I was driving to work. Double check with vet about the charcoal as if on other medication it may affect it. It's used to 'mop stuff up' so may mop up any meds before they work... I'm certain they use it to that effect in hospitals when people have taken OD or too much alcohol
Click to expand...

I feed Happy Tummy charcoal and I wondered about this, so I contacted Fine Fettle and asked about it having any effect on medication and wormers and they said it would not and I could feed them together!
 
I have a friend who is a Toxicologist, she actually lectures on it so knows her stuff, and has horses. I was using Happy Tummy charcoal, she said that it shouldn't be used long term, and yes it used in hospitals to 'mop up' but patients aren't left on it once their immediate needs are met.
 
pines of rome said:
I feed Happy Tummy charcoal and I wondered about this, so I contacted Fine Fettle and asked about it having any effect on medication and wormers and they said it would not and I could feed them together!
Click to expand...

chrissie1 said:
I have a friend who is a Toxicologist, she actually lectures on it so knows her stuff, and has horses. I was using Happy Tummy charcoal, she said that it shouldn't be used long term, and yes it used in hospitals to 'mop up' but patients aren't left on it once their immediate needs are met.
Click to expand...

That's useful to know :)
 
Thanks for ongoing support guys. Charcoal arrived today and he ain't chuffed, doesn't mix down too well so will experiment with it. The other bits should hopefully arrive tomorrow. :)
Unfortunately there is no other grazing I can use at the moment unless I put the, in with lambs or suckler cows which I am really hoping to avoid, cows dislike the horses when they have their babies and the horses dislike the playful lambs!
 
Put fennel seeds in the food, the smell is irresistale horses will eat it and it tastes good and is full of other good stuff and also helps with bad tummys. Really worth it. Give it a go.
 
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