Yearling will not load - need to move ASAP - offered free if anyone can load!

From what the OP is saying wisp+willow, this filly could be PTS if she doesn't load.
Now whilst i agree with everything u say, its all in an ideal world when one has the time and own transport.

When ur dealing with a transport company, a vet for sedation, u cannot have all the time in the world.

God only knws what 3 hours of vet attendance cost.

People aren't being short sighted when they suggest what they do, they understand the urgency of the situatuion, and i'm sure that filly would like another chance at being taught to load the way u suggest in the future, but its clearly not an option right now, after all future loading problems will be irrelevant if filly gets PTS x
 
Would love to help, my other half is brilliant at loading horses, one thing we have learnt having Arabs is you cant rush them or bully them, sadly we need another horse like i need a hole in the head. I really hope they do get something sorted. Dare i ask what will happen to her if she cant be loaded & moved?
 
Missyme10... absolutely right. It's unfortunate, but yes, that could be the outcome. :(

And again for any late-comers to the thread - this isn't my horse!

Just trying to find a way out for owner and yearling alike, and hopefully give the yearling a shot at a future, with someone who could invest the time and patience she needs.

Thanks again everyone who has responded, and for all your PM's, I will keep you updated.

Thanks.
 
liannexsx said:
my youngster wont load but if u take the trailer partition out, back up to the stable/barn door and give her a tap on the bum in she goes.
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It would seem a safer option if that could be done I guess, but I think she would need to find a trailer to use, and one with side gates? If anyone has one they could lend/hire in the area please let me know?
I guess people would be reluctant, knowing she's a problem, in case it gets damaged though. :(
 
Borrow or hire front and back unload trailer (prefer Ifor Williams). Take out all the partitions and bars. Put straw down, including on ramp and join between ramp and ground. Have both ramps open and try walking her dam through and see if she will follow. Have a loose lead rope, so she thinks it is her idea. Alternatively try feeding her dam in there and see if she is interested in the food. Try feeding her on the ramp etc. She may lose her fear. If you do get her on, travel her loose with all top doors closed.

Alernatively, have trailer so one side is against a wall and use the big blokes method!

Another way is to stable her and back trailer up to stable so she has to walk onto the trailer straight out of the stable. Use feed and don't try to force her. If she backs up just keep turning her in tight circles.


I have used all these methods on youngstock. A foal is very easy to lift and force on. A yearling isn't quite so easy, but it can be done.

Good luck!
 
navaho said:
Would love to help, my other half is brilliant at loading horses, one thing we have learnt having Arabs is you cant rush them or bully them, sadly we need another horse like i need a hole in the head. I really hope they do get something sorted. Dare i ask what will happen to her if she cant be loaded & moved?
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Thanks, true, and don't ask. :(
 
missyme10 said:
From what the OP is saying wisp+willow, this filly could be PTS if she doesn't load.
Now whilst i agree with everything u say, its all in an ideal world when one has the time and own transport.

When ur dealing with a transport company, a vet for sedation, u cannot have all the time in the world.

God only knws what 3 hours of vet attendance cost.

People aren't being short sighted when they suggest what they do, they understand the urgency of the situatuion, and i'm sure that filly would like another chance at being taught to load the way u suggest in the future, but its clearly not an option right now, after all future loading problems will be irrelevant if filly gets PTS x
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i hadn't read the original post too closely, and didn't realise the owner has no means of transport- this makes things more difficult obviously, and inthis circumstance my advice is defunct.

i know people are not being short sighted- all the advise on here has been constructive, and have been methods i have used myself on various horses for various reasons. however the op also stated that the horse went up and over when pressurised to load from behind: to me sounds like a recipe for disaster which ever way you look at it.

personaly i'd be speaking to the new owner and trying to work out a way thet the horse can stay until able to load, while sourcing a trailer/lorry to borrow for practicing, or be speaking to the surrounding land owners within walking distance.

with all due respect, but in all honesty: the filly should have been prepared for this move in advance- im sure the sale did not take place overnight. ;)

eta: i am aware that this is not your horse- so not directed at you- but the owner.
 
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If the owner has already tried and failed, and the filly has already bolted through a fence, it may be best to hire professionals to assist - for everyone's safety.

Like someone mentioned above, if you look at the Kelly Marks website there is a list of NH associates - may be worth calling and speaking to someone local. They may even have a trailer or know where you can get one from.

How established is her leading? A trainer would likely work on the leading first until she responds, and then attempt to load. I understand that time is of the essence, but if there is time, perhaps she could do a leading session one day and load the following day?

Another alternative would be if there is a local yard she can walk to with the mare, and to keep the filly there temporarily whilst working on the leading and loading. Even if she has to move, she doesn't need to go all the way to Hampshire in one day?
 
whisp&willow said:
i hadn't read the original post too closely, and didn't realise the owner has no means of transport- this makes things more difficult obviously, and inthis circumstance my advice is defunct.

i know people are not being short sighted- all the advise on here has been constructive, and have been methods i have used myself on various horses for various reasons. however the op also stated that the horse went up and over when pressurised to load from behind: to me sounds like a recipe for disaster which ever way you look at it.

personaly i'd be speaking to the new owner and trying to work out a way thet the horse can stay until able to load, while sourcing a trailer/lorry to borrow for practicing, or be speaking to the surrounding land owners within walking distance.

with all due respect, but in all honesty: the filly should have been prepared for this move in advance- im sure the sale did not take place overnight. ;)
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Absolutely, the advice here has all been sound, and thanks to everyone who has replied.
And yes, the situation should never have arisen, I totally agree. I also can see how it has happened, the lady was trying to re-home her other horses, so has had little time, but still.
 
Please don't listen to any advice about beating the poor thing in, you will put this horse on course to be a big problem for the rest of it's life if you do. If it is highly strung it could turn into a violent horse and end up on a downward spiral to the abbatoir anyway.
Contact Tim and Shirley Piper in Somerset, I am sure they will get the horse in and WITHOUT violence.
Monty says "If you set out to get your horse loaded in five minutes it will take you five hours. If you set out to load your horse in five hours, it will take you five minutes".
Horses communicate by eye and body language. It sounds like this mare is VERY aware of people staring at her, to her that is aggressive and means "go or get out of my way". People tend to stand around in a circle with their arms folded, staring at the horse. You get some gathering round behind trying to shush the horse in, staring intently at the horse - recipe for disaster!
Please, please pm me and I will give you mobile numbers of Tim and Shirley. I am sure if they know the situation they will come quickly and they will succeed.
 
OK, just found out she was supposed to be out Friday this week, but has bought a little more time, and has maybe another 2 weeks, but doesn't have her own transport to do 'practice' loading.
 
I have always found, linking hands behind the horse and virtualy lifting them on or blindfolding.
If not get a transporter in but explain the problem before hand as they will not be pleased if on a tight schedule and them find they have a bd loader on their hands, if forewarned they will allow time for the problem loader.
Let us know how you get on
 
I had a NH person to load an unloadable horse a few years ago, he got the horse on the lorry within 90 mins and whilst it took a few weeks of practising what he'd shown us to get the horse loading consistently, he did load it within 90 mins so it would have solved this problem! If you want me to find out how much he'd want to come and do yours in S-set let me know and I'll call him, he's in Oxford.
Good luck. You have my every sympathy!
 
I would urge her owner to contact Ben Hart http://www.hartshorsemanship.com/

The problem with trying more and different forceful methods now is that the situation may just get worse, and someone, or the filly, could be seriously hurt. Ben gained some fame when he was filmed for telly loading an ancient donkey that had lived for many years on an island and who had to be moved because of flooding.

Has anyone wondered what will happen when she's loaded, the doors are shut, and the lorry moves off? I do think this is a job for a really good, recommended professional.
 
All the coercion methods above involve stress. Stress to a bright horse such as an arab means risk of death = panic = a horse who will not respond to anything that is asked and may in fact do herself and any handlers serious injury. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not even contemplate the several strong men option.
Take away the stress and you might be in with a chance, but now that the association of transport and rough handling/brute force is made in her brain it will be hard to over ride.
I have had huge success with reinforcement - food rewards for the tiniest of efforts, to begin with with this filly it might even be standing near the ramp then facing the ramp then close to the ramp etc. But it will take time. How has this filly been let down if there is a threat to put her down because humans have made her so scared of transport. If I was closer and time was available (from the sound of it several sessions a day for several days) I would come and teach her just to save her life.
I assume she is weaned in the sense of being happy to be separated from her dam (there was mention of trying to have her follow them in?) because if not that is the first step.
 
Totally second Ben Hart - he is brilliant with reinforcement. And BTW it is not legal to travel a sedated horse, they could well injure themsleves, and IME get worse because they know there is something scary going on but are unable to do anything to help themselves.
 
Tinypony said:
I would urge her owner to contact Ben Hart http://www.hartshorsemanship.com/

The problem with trying more and different forceful methods now is that the situation may just get worse, and someone, or the filly, could be seriously hurt. Ben gained some fame when he was filmed for telly loading an ancient donkey that had lived for many years on an island and who had to be moved because of flooding.

Has anyone wondered what will happen when she's loaded, the doors are shut, and the lorry moves off? I do think this is a job for a really good, recommended professional.
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In my experience nothing too much happens when the trailer moves off, as they are trying to balance. The trick is to get on the move asap after they are loaded!

Personally I have found that Parelli is a recipe for disaster, so I would steer well clear of that. It just gives them more to fight against and be afraid of.
 
In my experience horses can either put up and start worrying about balancing, or go mad with fear trashing transport and themselves. Unless the horse at least starts out in the right state of mind nobody can really know what will happen with a horse this unhappy about loading.
I too would not recommend a Parelli person, which is why I suggested Ben Hart, who has a very different approach. As the filly has already gone through several stressful approaches associated with loading, I reckon something different would be kinder and more appropriate.
(The Parelli approach may give the horse something to fight against, but surely the "big blokes" method does exactly the same thing).
 
another one reccomending ben hart ....... using the technuiques tried so far with such reactions is just going to make things even worse and indeed may end up with an injured horse and being pts anyway.

given time to address the problem over the weeks grace she has now with a pos reinforcement approach it may just change the fillies attitude to the whole concept and take pressure ( physical amd mental) out of the equation.


horrible situation to be in for sure fo the horse and owner.
 
Blindford, strong arms and lunge line attached to filly's halter taken into vehicle around strong partition and semi locked off so that when the filly comes forward you can take up slack but when she pulls back the lock comes into play (some of you would have seen me do this in our lorry)

There was one once that we had to totally sedate lay on a tarpolan and then winch it into the lorry and vet then revived it for travelling. This also was going to be put down if it could not be loaded as the farm had been sold and they had to be out.
 
Thanks again guys. I have some phone numbers and an offer or two on PM, so will give her all the info and contacts.
I am also too far away to be much use, but will let you all know what happens.

Thanks again.
 
Tinypony said:
(The Parelli approach may give the horse something to fight against, but surely the "big blokes" method does exactly the same thing).
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As the filly has already reared and gone over backwards my concern about Parelli was that it involves pressure on the head which she would fight against. Plus the spinning rope thing seems to scare the s**t out of them, literally! The big blokes method is pressure from behind, which often works. I've never heard of Ben Hart, or his methods, but if they are better then definately use them! If there is a kinder way I'm all in favour of it!
 
Lynette said:
Blindford, strong arms and lunge line attached to filly's halter taken into vehicle around strong partition and semi locked off so that when the filly comes forward you can take up slack but when she pulls back the lock comes into play (some of you would have seen me do this in our lorry)
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As time is a serious factor then this is probably the only way forward, & if it's any consolation we loaded a TB yearling using this technique. Once he was on board he immediately tucked in to the haynet, didn't move at all during the journey, & now loads quite happily with no hesitation.
 
I think we're agreeing with each other Templewood. My thoughts are that she might react to pressure from behind as well. Too much is unknnown in this situation, if people tried to load her for 3 hours before I'd guess that they tried pressure from the front, the side, behind, lifting her feet and just about everything.
I posted a link to Ben Hart's site earlier, from your posts I think you might find him interesting. I'm not one of his disciples, and the way I train is very different to what he does, but I do believe in using the right approach to fit the horse. I don't think - now at any rate - a forceful approach would be worth the risk with this one.
 
I have heard this before when some one rang and wanted my other OH to help load a horse with 6 other men and a vet to dope it. He went before they all came and loaded it on his own. If someone wants to pay for his visit he'll will load it, but we don't want any more horses. :o
 
Did you say that the youngster wouldn't go onto a lorry, but you hadn't tried a trailer?

I do find that trailers are easier for youngsters to understand, as they can see what they are going into and they don't have to cope with the hill. I second the putting straw over the ramp and floor of the trailer and removing the partition.

I don't think that lunge reins help at all with a genuinely bad/frightened loader - great for a stubborn, won't go in now and again type, but with something that throws itself around, they end up around the hocks/legs and cause more stress and fright.

As previously said, back the trailer into a barn if possible, and close the doors against the sides of the trailer so there is nowhere to go. If not, park as close to a wall as possible, and I mean reallly close so nothing can go down the side. We found that bad loaders are more persuaded to go in with a solid pole at the other side - like a jumping pole, that can be lifted to eye level at the front, and used to push the rump behind.

In normal cases of course you'd take time and other routes, but although a youngster may stress going through this, if you make a fuss of them when in, and make the journey stress free and smooth, then take time to load the horse by nicer methods without going anywhere, you will not scar the horse for life!!
 
If you get her to ring a racehorse/bloodstock transporter with large lorries they very often have boxes where all the partions can be folded back flat to leave a very open area to load up into. They also have masses of experience. We used one to load a VERY diificult filly of ours that was not going in for anyone. They got her in within about 5 mins.
 
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