Yes, it is your fault!!

"I've read the OP and a few in between, so if am missing something, apologies, but I had to have my old boy PTS because he had laminitis AND cushings, now more referred to as Equine Metabolic Syndrome."

Would just like to point out that Cushing's and EMS are 2 completely different diseases, although both can cause laminitis - there is a good explanation of both on by the Edinburgh vet school if you go to this site:

http://www.ed.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.1...cushingsdiseaseandequinemetabolicsyndrome.pdf
 
OMG at this OP (I've not read all the replies but will do later). I'm sure the owner in question tried their best and is absolutely devastated. Horses, like people, get ill. We're all still learning and trying to be healthier and have healthier animals but I don't believe any of us is perfectly there just yet, including you, OP. I think you're out of order and downright mean starting this thread.
 
I agree with Shils and mrs b. Where has PR gone? Strange how this person felt so strongly to put it on here and now seems to have gone to ground. Some laminitics do not respond, no matter what is tried
 
Laminitis is of course a very complex condition which can be initiated by a number of different triggers
Keeping a horse on the skinny side may well reduce the chance of a horse getting Laminitis so it is sensible to keep a horses weight under control however an underweight horse can still get Laminitis so this is not completly fool proof.
I am amazed at the lack of understanding of Laminitis by horse owners and also that many farriers and vets need to accept that they need to update their knowledge on the subject. There is so much more knowledge available about the prevention and treatment of Laminitis but much of it appears to fall on deaf ears where some professionals and horse owners are concerned.
Horse owners need to continually up-date their knowledge on horse management and not rely on information which is years out of date.
We are very fortunate in our area as the Royal Vet College at Potters Bar Hertfordshire arranges monthly lectures to update horse owners knowledge which proves to be very useful for us horse owners.
 
My horse got laminitis last summer despite having a condition score of 2.5 out of 5 and being kept in a bare paddock and being very fit and doing plenty of exercise on a high fibre low sugar diet. She tested negative for cushings as well to the vet's utter amazement - there are odd cases and laminitis is still not fully understood.

If I had lost her and someone was coming on here saying they knew better than me I would be devastated. I understand your frustration but there comes a time when ranting just isn't helping and you have to let it go. That poor owner by the sound of it did her absolute best for her horse, took professional advice and unfortunately things didn't work out. You getting angry isn't helping you or her. Sorry.
 
Pale Rider said:
Someone I know has just had their horse PTS by the vet. Why, laminitis. She was warned about it, because she overfed sugar filled crap feed.
Now, she has had a vet in who knows nothing about barefoot recovery, and between the vet and the farrier they have made things worse.
The horse is now dead, so much wailing, and saying how nothing could be done.
Well it could, between them they've killed a good horse.
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Were you closely involved in the case and discussions between the owner, vet and farrier ? You seem very opinionated on this which is why i ask if you know the whole story or filling in the blanks to suit your own agenda.
 
It does seem unfair to blame the owner, who obviously did everything they could regarding veterinary and farriery care.

It's all very well saying that they continued to feed 'sugar filled crap' but many of the laminitis trust approved feeds are said to be just that, so perhaps it might be better pointing the finger at the feed manufacturers rather than the owner. Same goes for the vet, he was advising to the best of his ability and there are no guarantees that any other method of treatment would guarantee recovery. There are presumably barefoot horses who do not recover well either, despite proper diet and management.

Laminitis is a very complex issue and while an overweight obviously uncared for horse would be one thing, it sounds like the owner has done all she can to the best of her abilites, whether you would do things differently or not doesn't make them bad owners.
 
OP - Have you aired your views/knowledge/support to the owner before the horse was pts?

Unfortunately some people can only act on what their told to do (in this case by their vet and farrier going by your post) they may not have the experience, knowledge or money to seek further advice or treatment from other areas perhaps?


Or perhaps further help/advice could of been available but nobody bothered to step in and let them know?

I should imagine the owner feels bad enough after loosing their horse with out someone else letting the world know what they did wrong.
 
Four years ago this horse had an acute lamanitic attack. The owner who is a friend of mine brought it to us as we had recovered a number of lamanitic's up to then. The horse had severe rotation, but with a decent diet and following a barefoot recovery, it wasn't long before it was right. After 12 mths the feet were back to normal. The next three years the horse was fine. My friend recently got made redundant, so had to sell the horse. That was about eight weeks ago. The woman who bought him, knew the history, and bought him only on condition she would promise to keep him on his barefoot regime. After she bought him, she announced she was going to do things properly and put him on an expensive top of the range mix. Not long after, he's footy, so she has him shod. Then he has a lamanitic attack. Before we can get him back off her the vet has put him down. Vet almost delights in telling us that barefoot is a, fad, no he doesn't know about Ramey, Jackson, or Rockley or anything.
Yes I do bame the vet the owner and the farrier. The vet is just incompetent, the farrier and owner knew the history and are just evil. I've told the lot of them what I think. So that's it a really nice horse dead.
 
Pale Rider said:
Four years ago this horse had an acute lamanitic attack. The owner who is a friend of mine brought it to us as we had recovered a number of lamanitic's up to then. The horse had severe rotation, but with a decent diet and following a barefoot recovery, it wasn't long before it was right. After 12 mths the feet were back to normal. The next three years the horse was fine. My friend recently got made redundant, so had to sell the horse. That was about eight weeks ago. The woman who bought him, knew the history, and bought him only on condition she would promise to keep him on his barefoot regime. After she bought him, she announced she was going to do things properly and put him on an expensive top of the range mix. Not long after, he's footy, so she has him shod. Then he has a lamanitic attack. Before we can get him back off her the vet has put him down. Vet almost delights in telling us that barefoot is a, fad, no he doesn't know about Ramey, Jackson, or Rockley or anything.
Yes I do bame the vet the owner and the farrier. The vet is just incompetent, the farrier and owner knew the history and are just evil. I've told the lot of them what I think. So that's it a really nice horse dead.
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I can feel your hurt and anger, and I think given the above it's understandable. Poor horse. A hard lesson for his previous owner to learn.
 
You're not making your story sound any more plausible.

One barefoot fanatic.

One 'incompetent' vet, an 'evil' farrier and an 'evil' owner. Of course :rolleyes:

You CAN NOT KNOW whether that horse would have lived or died. You can think you know better, and you may have rehabilitated the horse through one bout of laminitis but you cannot categorically state that they have killed the horse. Yes you are angry, yes you are upset but while you could have posted raising the awareness you chose to condemn.

(ETA using the Churchill version of fanatic: Can't change their mind, won't change the subject)
 
Pale Rider said:
The woman who bought him, knew the history, and bought him only on condition she would promise to keep him on his barefoot regime.
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How can you make someone proomise to keep a pony that has had very bad cases of laminitis barefoot? I'm not against barefoot or unshod horses and i think some horses really benefit from it but when there is unatural rotation of the pedal bone I think you have to help the horse out in some way.

Also I agree with Rhino... this really isn't making your whole 'it's your fault' thread any better...
 
The thing here is it sounds like the basics of managing a laminitic were ignored ie. diet! I have a laminitic and tbh 'good' quality feeds are no way suitable.

When I was ill last year I really worried about the possibly having to pass my horses on. Not because I'm the best owner in the world but because I know their foibles and especially what Maisy can and can't eat safely.

As always, personal insults don't help I'm afraid.
 
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'The horse had severe rotation, but with a decent diet and following a barefoot recovery, it wasn't long before it was right.'
You really reallyd ont' know your facts...
Of course diet is a major part but what exactly do you think a horse with severe rotation has giong on in the foot?
Grow up, move on concentrate on your own life!
 
Back in the late 1980s, I had a 3/4 Connemara mare that I had put down because she foundered badly as a result of the medication she was on. Had an autopsy done and it turns out that she would have died with no hope of recovery and that putting her down was the kindest option. It sucked. She had just turned six. Vet couldn't tell me what was wrong with her. She had froth in her breathing passages, lesions on her intestines and swelling on her heart.

My Thoroughbred had issues with sub-clinical laminitis when I first bought him. I think he had hindgut acidosis and fed him accordingly. That combined with a good farrier fixed the problem.

So for a horse to founder is not always the result of being fat.
 
Pale Rider said:
Rhino, you are a prize knob head.
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I was just about to write that if your 2nd post had been your 1st, you might have had a better response. BUT, however sadly as it ended for this pony, you still come out of this looking like you are the only one who (with your superior knowledge) should be entrusted with an equine.

You place yourself and your knowledge above the vet and the farrier - and although no-one should be above criticism based purely on their profession, I do wonder whether your attitude of 'I know best and you are ignorant and evil' didn't rather pee-off the vet and goad him into his attitude towards you and your beliefs? It sure as hell would me.

Finally, calling someone a knob head hardly raises your game as someone whose way of thinking should be considered: you do yourself and your cause no favours.
 
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Pale Rider said:
Rhino, you are a prize knob head.
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Seriously !!!! How do you think this comment makes others view you :(

The horse was sold on, when that happened you and the others who had him before had no say in what happened after that. The owner did what she thought was best, albeit different to what you would do, sad as the case might be, you have no real proof that this wouldnt have happened again anyway, and tbh your say in the matter ended when the horse was sold
 
I recently had my horse PTS through ringbone, his X owner also called me evil and accused me and my vet if killing her horse. No he was my horse and was in a lot of pain, we did what was best for him! Not his X owner.
 
Pale Rider said:
Four years ago this horse had an acute lamanitic attack. The owner who is a friend of mine brought it to us as we had recovered a number of lamanitic's up to then. The horse had severe rotation, but with a decent diet and following a barefoot recovery, it wasn't long before it was right. After 12 mths the feet were back to normal. The next three years the horse was fine. My friend recently got made redundant, so had to sell the horse. That was about eight weeks ago. The woman who bought him, knew the history, and bought him only on condition she would promise to keep him on his barefoot regime. After she bought him, she announced she was going to do things properly and put him on an expensive top of the range mix. Not long after, he's footy, so she has him shod. Then he has a lamanitic attack. Before we can get him back off her the vet has put him down. Vet almost delights in telling us that barefoot is a, fad, no he doesn't know about Ramey, Jackson, or Rockley or anything.
Yes I do bame the vet the owner and the farrier. The vet is just incompetent, the farrier and owner knew the history and are just evil. I've told the lot of them what I think. So that's it a really nice horse dead.
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Perhaps the lesson here is not to sell on a horse that needs specialist care, but to either loan or pts yourself? My laminitic will never be sold on because of this very reason. The stress of the move could also have been a contributory factor.

I'm actually pro barefoot, but ranting about other professionals and owners being 'evil' does nothing but discourage people from investigating the possibility of it being a viable option.
 
If you were that concerned as to the horses medical regime then you prob should have kept it yourself. I wonder, was a profit made on the sale of said horse or did you gift the horse to the new owner? I imagine a profit was made?
Therefore, once it is sold it is none of your business what happens to it. As for coming on a public forum and slating the new owner- bang out of order!
If you have an issue with the way the vet and farrier dealt with the horse I suggest you follow the correct channels of complaint.
In the meantime feel free to polish your halo, you are obvious the voice of perfection in the equine world.
 
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