Yet another delightful rider..... not..... when will this end?

reynold said:
www.horseandhound.co.uk

Dressage horses’ stress behaviours increase with competition levels – but scores unaffected

A new study by researchers at the Czech Republic has looked at noseband tightness and stress responses in dressage horses.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

This looks interesting. Link to the full research in the article. Suggesting that a harmony mark should be given and points out (as discussed a lot on this thread) that judges are not penalising stress behaviours, particularly at the higher levels where they may be too busy counting number of strides of particular movements and not having time to consider the overall picture.
Click to expand...

This is the least surprising research finding ever! But at least the research is being done. Re the pool noodle, I genuinely thougt it was an AI generated image as a joke! Like horses in snorkel masks and flippers! But it should not be so suprising really. There seems to be such a focus on making the horse look correct than training them to be correct.
 
PurpleSpots said:
Maybe there should be two judges per test, or in tests with multiple judges some allocated to judge different aspects, or an extra judge to judge stress behaviours?

Actually, one extra judge per test to judge stress behaviours would be the most straightforward solution I imagine?
Click to expand...
Might work. But only if they want to penalise stressed and tense horses. Which they could do now and don't. So they don't want to, or they would, so any solution that could penalise the current state of affairs won't happen.

It's not realistic to think a judge at that level doesn't know or doesn't see an unhappy horse. They see it and they don't care.
 
smolmaus said:
Might work. But only if they want to penalise stressed and tense horses. Which they could do now and don't. So they don't want to, or they would, so any solution that could penalise the current state of affairs won't happen.

It's not realistic to think a judge at that level doesn't know or doesn't see an unhappy horse. They see it and they don't care.
Click to expand...

This. They ignore the FEI guidelines across marking, prioritise things like submission over harmony, and dont utilise the collectives anywhere near enough.

At least shaking the system up WOULD bring everyone up short and force some kind of change....I guess.
 
smolmaus said:
This guarantees it won't happen though lol they don't want change, they want all of the rest of us to shut up and go away
Click to expand...

Oh of course, I'm talking theoretically. The judges, alone, could make this change if they wanted to, right now, within the existing rules. An actual shake up of the rules is easier to communicate and show people that change, that's all.

And people have been shouting about this since I joined the UDBB in maybe 2000/2001, and are STILL being told that we're hysterical, just by slightly fewer people.

I mean I've been told by plenty, throughout, that speaking up will harm my career (started fitting in 2009).
 
sbloom said:
Oh of course, I'm talking theoretically. The judges, alone, could make this change if they wanted to, right now, within the existing rules. An actual shake up of the rules is easier to communicate and show people that change, that's all.

And people have been shouting about this since I joined the UDBB in maybe 2000/2001, and are STILL being told that we're hysterical, just by slightly fewer people.

I mean I've been told by plenty, throughout, that speaking up will harm my career (started fitting in 2009).
Click to expand...
I know you've been in the trenches so to speak, I'm just being a big old GRUMP today. Getting stories of friends-of-friends being influenced in a very unhelpful direction with their chronically stressed horse and feeling very pessimistic that there will ever be any widespread change worth speaking of. Everywhere you look is someone willing to tell you to just kick, pull, slap harder to get results.
 
At this point I think horse "sport" is no longer ethical especially as the methods behind closed doors cannot be policed

They are all just as bad as each other, as unfortunately, quick fixes get the results.

They are then sawing and booting in public, again prompting the question of what goes on behind closed doors. Some look they cant ride with the constant spurring and sawing, youd probably see nicer riding in some riding schools and these people are supposed to be the pinnacle

Time to ban it especially as the powers that be continue to turn a blind eye
 
Re: the pool noodle; it may seem a novel, slightly random concept, however the use of ‘rigid reins’ for a similar purpose has been mentioned in historical, classical texts (eg Alexis Francois L’Hotte’s The Quest for Lightness in Equitation).
 
I'm afraid that when I wrestle this with logic I too end up in the place of - (mostly professional) competitive sport has no place using horses. And until we can learn to play better, do better, it should be gone.

I know we can't go back to the old days of only the wealthy, or the apprenticed, being able to get into horses, when they did then sit on the lunge for a year, and learn properly how to care for a horse (there were of course a lot of gaps in what we knew back then, compared to now, it wasn't perfect it any way) but we need a middle ground.

@rhino that's interesting, I can see from reviews of the book that he followed Baucher as well as working within the Saumur organisation, but I don't know anything of his work. What was the context, was it more in his purely military, mostly outdoor focused, work? It seems a very odd thing for high school work.
 
sbloom said:
I'm afraid that when I wrestle this with logic I too end up in the place of - (mostly professional) competitive sport has no place using horses. And until we can learn to play better, do better, it should be gone.

I know we can't go back to the old days of only the wealthy, or the apprenticed, being able to get into horses, when they did then sit on the lunge for a year, and learn properly how to care for a horse (there were of course a lot of gaps in what we knew back then, compared to now, it wasn't perfect it any way) but we need a middle ground.

@rhino that's interesting, I can see from reviews of the book that he followed Baucher as well as working within the Saumur organisation, but I don't know anything of his work. What was the context, was it more in his purely military, mostly outdoor focused, work? It seems a very odd thing for high school work.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. When I taught, none of my pupils had any business having any reins until they developed balance and learned to ride from their seat (of course that didn't please the pushy parents who were desperate for them to bomb around, nor did it make flashy social media content). It seems many professionals nowadays would benefit from a few lunge lessons and I'm sure their horses' mouths would be grateful.
 
Barklands said:
Totally agree. When I taught, none of my pupils had any business having any reins until they developed balance and learned to ride from their seat (of course that didn't please the pushy parents who were desperate for them to bomb around, nor did it make flashy social media content). It seems many professionals nowadays would benefit from a few lunge lessons and I'm sure their horses' mouths would be grateful.
Click to expand...

I feel we have, for some time, had kids coming into the sport who might have started for the right, or at least, long standing reasons (even if that included pushy parents!) but who get easily suckered into doing it for social media dopamine hits. I remember even nearly 25 years ago the horror at what was involved with taking a young rider from ponies to horses, with the needs of the young rider's competitive results trumping any needs of the horse. It's just a production line.

Don't disagree about the lunge but equally I think we kind of have better tools these days, a better understanding of our bodies and our equipment to actually make it easier for riders to advance, but we don't have the trainers who couple that with a deep understanding of horse centric management. They're so often still immersed in the competitive world.

I do get frustrated when I get classical trainers, who I respect hugely, telling me that providing a saddle that supports the pelvis is nonsense, that riders need to learn to ride better and we should all be able to sit in neutral in any open seated saddle. Well I for one can't because most saddles that have a seat size big enough for me are too narrow in the twist to support my wide pubic arch in comfort. I get shouted down, told I don't understand, yet there I was even at 9 years old watching John Lasseter and Danny Pevsner teaching horse owners dressage at my riding school...

Don't the horses deserve both? The better application of modern science but in the context of the classical understanding of what a horse is and what a horse needs...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top