yet another follow on post, sleep deprivation

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Horsekaren

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Stalker cam set up last night, he does lie down!!! so the big fluffy bed is helping but he was only down for 70 seconds :(

He seems to be guarding all night as he goes back and forth from the door to his window. He dozes taking turns facing the door and the window to his neighbor. I can see he is trying to sleep as he goes all blury eyed then wobbles as his is drifting into too deep of a sleep.


IMO it seems to be that he doesn't feel safe :( what can i do to try and improve this.

Has anyone else set up a camera? how long do your horses sleep for?
At present he cant move stables.
when he is turned out over summer with a herd of 12 he still doesn't really lay down.

He inst a sociable horse, the opposite really, he like his own space but at the same time absolutely cannot be turned out alone as he just runs around looking for another horse, understandably. Would a mirror be helpful for this type of horse or would it be pointless as the horse in the mirror will be lying down when he is lying down so no one would be guarding him.

What else can i try? Id like to try and move him so he had an actual neighbor but this isn't possible at the moment :(
 
Is he not sleeping because he's finding it hard to breathe? Imagine what we are like it we have a cold or cough.
Perhaps he can't settle because of his breathing? Would be be better turned out?
 
Some horses don't like a window to a neighbour, presuming the window is open or bars rather than a solid glass/perspex. If he is not sociable he may feel threatened as he can't get far away. Could you block up the window to the next door?
 
Mine cant go out 24/7. He wont lay down to sleep in the field and ends up exhausted, so you may find yours is the same. He also cant settle in an american barn set up or where there is a window etc. He does best in longer stable with a half bed at the back for him to lie down on.

But equally, the breathing issue must be affecting him surely?
 
I have one who didn't rest, I put up a camera, I ended up letting him share with his buddy and he now uses him as a giant pillow
What I noticed on camera, he is very house proud lol, I skip out daily and uplift the bed weekly, dry disinfect the floor and replay adding new shavings........ on the uplift day he laid down more often
I checked to make sure we didn't have rodents around the yard
I waited until late in the night to see if there was not an ongoing noise I wasn't aware of, do you have a generator, light on somewhere which gives out a hum or something similar
Radio helped him for some unknown reason
In the end he gained a room mate and both seem very happy so a mirror may help you but I always realise he lays down less than anyone else but I am content that he didn't even know I was there when flat out using the other one like a pillow, then I messed it up by taking a photo :(
 
Trial and error - you need to keep experimenting until you find a setup he likes.

Start with boarding the window, if no help then try a mirror. Can you borrow a stable that is a different setup to see if he likes that? perhaps someone will swap with you or let you use there stable whilst their Horse is out?

ETA - if you can't find a stable set up he likes then I would be moving him yards. I know you said you like your yard but the Horse must come first.
 
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In addition to the stabling and getting breathing under control suggestions, I might be inclined to get him on a valerian supplement. It’s a really cheap and useful ‘calmer’ for those anxious/worrier types. It doesn’t sedate but might assist him to relax a bit.
 
Red-1 said:
Some horses don't like a window to a neighbour, presuming the window is open or bars rather than a solid glass/perspex. If he is not sociable he may feel threatened as he can't get far away. Could you block up the window to the next door?
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yep, time to look at the stable and yard set up to try and work out whats bothering him. a horse being settled in one stable but not in another on the same yard, is not that unusual. As I said on your other thread, stable mirrors are cheap and I've not had a horse that didnt use them yet-worth a try for £30. Blocking up internal partitions even with rugs might help too-although I realise you need good ventilation.
 
IHW - i haven't come across Valerian before, is this a calmer that can be used at a maintenance level continually? He is currently on Mag. I can see i can buy Valerian root in pure form from a few natural horse feed companies, just wondering if anyone had had good experiences with this for these types of situations and not box rest scenarios.
 
valerian root is a natural sedative/calmer. I've used it on horses in general work with good effects. (people use it too).
 
Horsekaren said:
IHW - i haven't come across Valerian before, is this a calmer that can be used at a maintenance level continually? He is currently on Mag. I can see i can buy Valerian root in pure form from a few natural horse feed companies, just wondering if anyone had had good experiences with this for these types of situations and not box rest scenarios.
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You could probably use it on an ongoing basis but might find you don’t need to.
It’s actually the one non-pharmaceutical branded calmer that is a banned supplement in horse sport (so presumably sufficient evidence for potential to work!)

It’s often used for human insomnia.

Yes I have used it and do think it works to take the edge off. Unlike ACP it doesn’t give you that slightly unsafe feeling to ride on
 
Progress !!!!
i spent the best part of £70.00 on bedding this weekend alone and made the bed twice as big and loooooook!!!!! he curled up and slept much further forward in his stable. 3.5 mins of REM nose down sleep :D i know only 3 and a half mins but in the last 5 days he has only been down for 1 min. I was making the bed deeper and deeper with no luck but more ground coverage seems to be helping.

Other factors-
-Rugless
-he has been worked lightly twice this weekend
-Naf Respirator supplement (waiting for nebuliser medication)
-strong zero tolerance leadership (shown by excellent horsemanship instructor)
-removing magnesium from his diet

I have ordered a calmer from natural feed supplies, it contains Valerian, Vervain and Camomile and i'm hoping that will arrive today and help with his anxiousness.

What a positive start to the week :D



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Horsekaren said:
Progress !!!!
i spent the best part of £70.00 on bedding this weekend alone and made the bed twice as big and loooooook!!!!! he curled up and slept much further forward in his stable. 3.5 mins of REM nose down sleep :D i know only 3 and a half mins but in the last 5 days he has only been down for 1 min. I was making the bed deeper and deeper with no luck but more ground coverage seems to be helping.

Other factors-
-Rugless
-he has been worked lightly twice this weekend
-Naf Respirator supplement (waiting for nebuliser medication)
-strong zero tolerance leadership (shown by excellent horsemanship instructor)
-removing magnesium from his diet

I have ordered a calmer from natural feed supplies, it contains Valerian, Vervain and Camomile and i'm hoping that will arrive today and help with his anxiousness.

What a positive start to the week :D



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Super news, I am chuffed for you and your lovely lad xx
 
Good news!

I do find it interesting that he even gets down to get up again so quick, it doesn't seem worth the effort! I hope you continue to get some progress with him once the meds arrive etc.
 
That's great news HK - I always think the bigger the bed the better, it's got to be comfier for them. My boy also likes to sleep further forward in his stable so I put bedding almost to his door.

Fingers crossed for more successful sleepy nights!
 
I'm glad that you are seeing some progress.

I can never understand why people don't cover the entire floor with bedding because when horses move in the stable, they must spread the bedding around more.
 
A fully bedded box allows the horse to choose where in the box it sleeps, we have always filled our boxes with bedding. The Appy mare sleeps in a most peculiar place, with her front feet right in one of the front corners when she stands up, I have no idea why she chooses this spot but that is her prefered place :) If I left a part of the floor unbedded she would probably choose not to lie down.
 
In your post today in http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?759815-HELP!!-Sleep-Crashing-Sleep-deprivation you say of your horse 'he spends the night falling down' but you haven't mentioned something so concerning in this thread. I realise that you have a catalogue of concerns that you are working through while at your current yard but I always wonder when I read your posts if you are considering ie going out and looking at other yards to see if there is something which may suit him better, offer a healthier lifestyle and eliminate a lot of his health issues.
 
Arzada said:
In your post today in http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?759815-HELP!!-Sleep-Crashing-Sleep-deprivation you say of your horse 'he spends the night falling down' but you haven't mentioned something so concerning in this thread. I realise that you have a catalogue of concerns that you are working through while at your current yard but I always wonder when I read your posts if you are considering ie going out and looking at other yards to see if there is something which may suit him better, offer a healthier lifestyle and eliminate a lot of his health issues.
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I have mentioned that he falls down and leans back in many of my other posts, hence the title follow on. Not quiet sure what the issue is there?

I am not considering a move, my horse is having breathing issues which we have now only just started to treat. Because of that reason i think up routing him and moving him would just be more added stress for him when we do not know the cause.

As for a healthier lifestyle - he has turn out every day, 8 hours, even when other yards close theirs because of weather. If i wanted to put him out at 6am and bring him in at 9pm i can. He can live out 24/7 in from march - September in a herd environment. I can add ventilation, i can change bedding, i can treat his health issues and until i try the above i dont see the point of throwing a massive stressful change into the equation until i know there is nothing i can do here and the place is the issue.

He has been passed around, he hasn't been in one place for more than a year and every person has sold him spring so for all i know this is a condition he has in winter regardless.... the only difference is i am trying to fix it and not throw in the towel.
 
Horsekaren said:
I have mentioned that he falls down and leans back in many of my other posts, hence the title follow on. Not quiet sure what the issue is there?

I am not considering a move, my horse is having breathing issues which we have now only just started to treat. Because of that reason i think up routing him and moving him would just be more added stress for him when we do not know the cause.

As for a healthier lifestyle - he has turn out every day, 8 hours, even when other yards close theirs because of weather. If i wanted to put him out at 6am and bring him in at 9pm i can. He can live out 24/7 in from march - September in a herd environment. I can add ventilation, i can change bedding, i can treat his health issues and until i try the above i dont see the point of throwing a massive stressful change into the equation until i know there is nothing i can do here and the place is the issue.

He has been passed around, he hasn't been in one place for more than a year and every person has sold him spring so for all i know this is a condition he has in winter regardless.... the only difference is i am trying to fix it and not throw in the towel.
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Well, I think you have shown nothing but dogged determination to sort your horse out & I hope you continue to succeed.
 
Arzada said:
In your post today in http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?759815-HELP!!-Sleep-Crashing-Sleep-deprivation you say of your horse 'he spends the night falling down' but you haven't mentioned something so concerning in this thread. I realise that you have a catalogue of concerns that you are working through while at your current yard but I always wonder when I read your posts if you are considering ie going out and looking at other yards to see if there is something which may suit him better, offer a healthier lifestyle and eliminate a lot of his health issues.
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its been discussed on earlier threads. personally I think the OP is working through the issues in the right order and has had veterinary advice and diagnostics from one of the leading equine practices in the UK.
 
i know i keep going on but Looooooook who slept like a pancake for 15 mins last night!!!! :D
Combination of Herbal Calm, Possibly the biggest bed in the world and Naf Respirator seem to be doing the trick.
He will start his actual Flixotide nebuliser and inhaler medicine tonight so hopefully that will help even more :D

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Oh that is brilliant news!! It's great to see him flat out like that :) Looks like all your efforts are working :) You must be so pleased.
How is he in himself nowadays? Now he's getting a bit more sleep? Or is it a bit soon to tell any difference?
 
Lovely sight to see him flat out, clearly is feeling much more comfortable, well done for persevering! Fingers crossed he will start to feel better with more sleep and the medicine!
 
Amye said:
Oh that is brilliant news!! It's great to see him flat out like that :) Looks like all your efforts are working :) You must be so pleased.
How is he in himself nowadays? Now he's getting a bit more sleep? Or is it a bit soon to tell any difference?
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It is a bit soon to tell but its defo improving. I had a trainer out when his grumpyness and moodyness had just got all too much a few weeks ago. As i knew he wasnt well i backed off and let him be rude and grumpy as i didnt want to piss him off (in heinsite this was a bad idea). The trainer said he can be grumpy but in his own space. since then i have accepted nothing other than a happy attitude, if he so much as goes to think about pulling a face at me i correct him. Zero tolerance and its working a treat. All the daily tasks of leading, feet, grooming and rugging are back to being nice experiences for us both.

I think the fact his breathing is starting to improve with dust free bedding, medicine and supplements along with my zero tolerance attitude he is getting back to being the happy sweet boy he was :D When he was his worst i didnt really want to be near him so i assume he would have picked up on that and no doubt felt the same towards me. Now he invites me in, respects me as being in charge and seems to enjoy my company again. No doubt the release of this pressure of having to maintain a grumpy attitude is helping him relax also.... meaning he sleeps!

He has been a star to lunge and i rode him for the first time on the weekend, bless him, there wasnt anything in the tank having had 5 weeks off and being poorly but he was super, didnt push him hard, i just wanted to know he was still the same horse to ride as he has always been golden!

It will be a year on Sunday of owning him and i'm so happy we seem to be turning this corner! I must say in terms of people buying a horse a bit gunho he really is the perfect first horse for experiencing the reality of it all. He has taught me more in one year than i could have ever imagined.
 
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