YM ignoring advice

[Bellalily]

Having read Kirstd post about her problems, I’ve had a similar issue raise its ugly head.
Some of you may recall I have a 28 year old Connie who has definite ideas on how his life should be run. He’s also the kindest and most obedient pony I’ve ever owned.
However, he learnt at a young age that he was stronger than us and as a result, I always handle him in a bridle, especially during the winter, and I advise anyone else to do the same.
I have them both turned out for me every morning and I bring in. YM mentioned that he had got away from her the other day and that’s the second time. I was naturally concerned as she only uses a normal head collar, but she laughed it off.
Yesterday morning, he took it one step further and bolted thru the gateway, she was in front I gather, knocked her over, trod on her and ran off across the field. He trod on her knee which is very painful and she’s now not able to work, her deputy has stepped in and of course he behaved beautifully because she used his bridle to lead him.
Obviously I’m concerned she’s hurt, but the names she was calling him were awful and at the end of the day, if she’d taken my advice and used his bridle, this would not have happened. When I gently suggested it yesterday evening, she dismissed it like I don’t know my own pony!
Most of the liveries blaming him, except one who pointed out horses are unpredictable.
It’s not even as if I didn’t recommend a bridle, but I was dismissed again, probably saw me as a weak old woman instead of an experienced handler of quirky ponies.
Sorry, just needed to let off steam

 

[BigRedDog]

Hopefully YM will have learnt her lesson and will do as you have requested in future. Perhaps the name calling was just an immediate response to pain and embarrassment.

 

[Mrs G]

You have done nothing wrong OP - this is all on the YM! You told them to use a bridle, they ignored that and then ignored the two warnings from your horse when he got away before. Prime example of someone over-confident in their ability and/or too lazy to do something properly and now its come back on them. Of course its regrettable that she got hurt but it was an accident waiting to happen - hopefully YM will learn from this!

 

[Caol Ila]

I've definitely sworn at horses before in the heat of the moment. I would not worry about that.

YOs who blow off advice from owners, as if we are all idiots because we're not pros, is a bigger issue. It's not uncommon, sadly. My old horse had to be on individual turnout because her social skills were terrible, and she was a danger to herself and others in the field. She could be very aggressive to other horses, and didn't know when to stop. Needless to say, I always explained this when I moved yards, and chose ones which offered individual turnout.

After I'd been at one particular yard for about a momth, the YO informed me that she wanted to try turning my mare out in her herd. I said, "Er... That's not a good idea. She chases and kicks things relentlessly. That's why I want her on individual." YO responds that her horses are such amazing teachers of manners that my horse will learn her place and not be a problem. It was full livery, and I wasn't there every day, so out in the herd my horse goes because that was the word of God, aka, YO. Besides, it was her view that one-horse amateur owners spout nonsense all the time and are usually wrong.

A few days afterwards, I go to the yard and find my horse back in her individual paddock. YO announced to me, "You know, your horse is really aggressive in the herd and won't stop chasing and fighting other horses!" As if I had no idea.

I was like, "No sh1t."

Hopefully your YO will use a bridle in the future. If she doesn't, then you might have a problem.

 

[Bellalily]

I've definitely sworn at horses before in the heat of the moment. I would not worry about that.

YOs who blow off advice from owners, as if we are all idiots because we're not pros, is a bigger issue. It's not uncommon, sadly. My old horse had to be on individual turnout because her social skills were terrible, and she was a danger to herself and others in the field. She could be very aggressive to other horses, and didn't know when to stop. Needless to say, I always explained this when I moved yards, and chose ones which offered individual turnout.

After I'd been at one particular yard for about a momth, the YO informed me that she wanted to try turning my mare out in her herd. I said, "Er... That's not a good idea. She chases and kicks things relentlessly. That's why I want her on individual." YO responds that her horses are such amazing teachers of manners that my horse will learn her place and not be a problem. It was full livery, and I wasn't there every day, so out in the herd my horse goes because that was the word of God, aka, YO. Besides, it was her view that one-horse amateur owners spout nonsense all the time and are usually wrong.

A few days afterwards, I go to the yard and find my horse back in her individual paddock. YO announced to me, "You know, your horse is really aggressive in the herd and won't stop chasing and fighting other horses!" As if I had no idea.

I was like, "No sh1t."

Hopefully your YO will use a bridle in the future. If she doesn't, then you might have a problem.

It wasn’t swearing, she said he had a problem, bipolar, mental pony.

 

[Bellalily]

You have done nothing wrong OP - this is all on the YM! You told them to use a bridle, they ignored that and then ignored the two warnings from your horse when he got away before. Prime example of someone over-confident in their ability and/or too lazy to do something properly and now it’s come back on them. Of course it’s regrettable that she got hurt but it was an accident waiting to happen - hopefully YM will learn from this!

Thank you.

 

[Bellalily]

Hopefully YM will have learnt her lesson and will do as you have requested in future. Perhaps the name calling was just an immediate response to pain and embarrassment.

This was about 8 hours later when she was perfectly calm. I’ve thought she has quite an unprofessional and immature attitude before, but she’s always been ok with mine.

 

[Bellalily]

I say the same to every person who will be handling him. Most heed my advice, one didn’t and got really arsey when I wasn’t sympathetic after she’d fallen over (not desperately hurt) because he’d done the same. On the other hand, one yard years ago messaged me to say he’d tried it on that morning so was it ok to use his bridle for turnout from then on. Professional attitude

 

[Nasicus]

'Hey don't touch that pan without an oven mitt, it's hot.'
'Pfft, what do you know?'
*touch*
'OH MY GOD THIS PAN IS HOT THIS IS ALL THE PANS FAULT!'

 

[Birker2020]

Having read Kirstd post about her problems, I’ve had a similar issue raise its ugly head.
Some of you may recall I have a 28 year old Connie who has definite ideas on how his life should be run. He’s also the kindest and most obedient pony I’ve ever owned.
However, he learnt at a young age that he was stronger than us and as a result, I always handle him in a bridle, especially during the winter, and I advise anyone else to do the same.
I have them both turned out for me every morning and I bring in. YM mentioned that he had got away from her the other day and that’s the second time. I was naturally concerned as she only uses a normal head collar, but she laughed it off.
Yesterday morning, he took it one step further and bolted thru the gateway, she was in front I gather, knocked her over, trod on her and ran off across the field. He trod on her knee which is very painful and she’s now not able to work, her deputy has stepped in and of course he behaved beautifully because she used his bridle to lead him.
Obviously I’m concerned she’s hurt, but the names she was calling him were awful and at the end of the day, if she’d taken my advice and used his bridle, this would not have happened. When I gently suggested it yesterday evening, she dismissed it like I don’t know my own pony!
Most of the liveries blaming him, except one who pointed out horses are unpredictable.
It’s not even as if I didn’t recommend a bridle, but I was dismissed again, probably saw me as a weak old woman instead of an experienced handler of quirky ponies.
Sorry, just needed to let off steam

I know that frustration when people don't listen to you.

My poor old heart horse Rommy had suspected wobblers, and he was referred to Philip Leverhulme (Liverpool Equine Hospital) for diagnosis. We decided to employ a 'professional' transport company as I did not want the risk of him going down in the trailer on the motorway as he was very ataxic (vet confirmed ok to travel though). I told them he needed to be loaded/unloaded in a chifney as he was incredibly strong and would take a pull if they weren't careful. So he was loaded in the chifney, which they gave us back.

He managed to stand on his feet on what must have been a very hair raising journey for him. We partly followed them until they hit the motorway when we over took them, seeing the driver deep in conversation looking at the groom when he'd already gone up the kerb twice on the way to the motorway had me worried. We arrived at the hospital thinking they'd be a good 30 mins or so behind us as Dad had driven at 80mph and they pulled up after about 14 mins! We hadn't got his chifney ready as we didn't expect them so soon, the groom started unloading him so I said "wait I will get his chifney" but she ignored me and continued to lead him down the ramp. He was a sweaty mess, totally soaked through with sweat. As suspected he took a bit of a pull and she responded by yanking him which caused him to fall over hard onto the concrete.

He was scrabbling around on the concrete trying to stand, blood pouring from the cuts on his legs, it was heart breaking to see.

Less than 2 hours later I'm afraid he was pts after comprehensive xrays showed too much damage to his neck and we were strongly advised to euthanise. Even now those images of him struggling to rise off the floor, I think how pitiful the situation was, and how she was so stupid that she didn't listen to me and thought she knew best.

So I know exactly how you feel OP.


RIP you beautiful boy, you didn't deserve what happened.

 

[Gallop_Away]

OP if that were me, that woman would not be handling my horses again. As for the name calling, that would be coming from me at a "professional" who showed such incompetence and put herself and my horse at risk.

 

[Abacus]

It wasn’t swearing, she said he had a problem, bipolar, mental pony.

I have never heard of this medical diagnosis for a horse before. I would have understood a bit of swearing (even though the accident was her own fault) but this is just silly.

 

[splashgirl45]

We had a mare on our yard who would take the mickey if being led in a headcollar so we put a kemp controller on and she knew that she couldn’t barge off and behaved like an angel . We had a new groom who needed to turn her out so we showed her how the controller was put on but she didn’t want to use it. She ended up on her back in the ditch while mare went galloping off on to the farmers fields… the mare knew immediately if she only had a leather headcollar on she could run amuck. New groom always used it from then on..

 

[SEL]

Yup. My favourite was asking them not to wash the legs of my draft when he came in. He had ongoing CPL issues so it was sore, didn't need water and he would bog off if you tried.

They knew best. He pulled back and broke the tie up, bogged off back to his field and the poor lady taking my other horse into her stable got squashed as that one bolted after him. I had also told them not to stable them one at a time just in case that one had a wobbly

But I knew nothing .....

She'll use a bridle next time OP she's just saving face with all that name calling nonsense

 

[Belmont]

I've been in the same situation but pony was out on lease. In the contract I stated she must be led in a bridle (I provided a spare one specifically for this), especially as the yard gate was always open to the road. 9 times out of 10 she's grand, but if she decides she'd rather be elsewhere, you have no chance with a headcollar (and she never bothers trying if she's in the bridle).
A few weeks past and they told me 'we've been doing naturally horsemanship, you don't need to lead her in a bridle anymore!'. I didn't buy it The lease then broke down a few weeks later for a number of reasons, but unsurprisingly one thing mentioned was how she'd pulled the mother over and dragged her across the car park. Hmm, no prizes for guessing she was only in a headcollar!
There's really no helping some people.

 

[Bellalily]

I know that frustration when people don't listen to you.

My poor old heart horse Rommy had suspected wobblers, and he was referred to Philip Leverhulme (Liverpool Equine Hospital) for diagnosis. We decided to employ a 'professional' transport company as I did not want the risk of him going down in the trailer on the motorway as he was very ataxic (vet confirmed ok to travel though). I told them he needed to be loaded/unloaded in a chifney as he was incredibly strong and would take a pull if they weren't careful. So he was loaded in the chifney, which they gave us back.

He managed to stand on his feet on what must have been a very hair raising journey for him. We partly followed them until they hit the motorway when we over took them, seeing the driver deep in conversation looking at the groom when he'd already gone up the kerb twice on the way to the motorway had me worried. We arrived at the hospital thinking they'd be a good 30 mins or so behind us as Dad had driven at 80mph and they pulled up after about 14 mins! We hadn't got his chifney ready as we didn't expect them so soon, the groom started unloading him so I said "wait I will get his chifney" but she ignored me and continued to lead him down the ramp. He was a sweaty mess, totally soaked through with sweat. As suspected he took a bit of a pull and she responded by yanking him which caused him to fall over hard onto the concrete.

He was scrabbling around on the concrete trying to stand, blood pouring from the cuts on his legs, it was heart breaking to see.

Less than 2 hours later I'm afraid he was pts after comprehensive xrays showed too much damage to his neck and we were strongly advised to euthanise. Even now those images of him struggling to rise off the floor, I think how pitiful the situation was, and how she was so stupid that she didn't listen to me and thought she knew best.

So I know exactly how you feel OP.


View attachment 132362 RIP you beautiful boy, you didn't deserve what happened.

That is just incredibly sad. My heart goes out to you, what dreadful final memories for you

 

[Goldenstar]

Some people just won’t accept you know things and there’s nothing you can do about it .
Fatty could only be led in a bridle , we led him in a head collar at home because he knew the routine and if he had a moment we let him go .
He always tested out every new groom he liked to wait for a couple of weeks until they I was a fool for telling when Fatty bolts just let him go ,what would this lovely sweet ID do ? then one morning he would go for it he loved to get into the school and gallop round bucking then he would just come back to you say , now where do you want us to go .
Everytime he went somewhere else becuse at one point he spent a fair bit of time at specialist vets I told them I am giving you a bridle for a reason please use it , quite often it was necessary for them to test that out and find yes you need to lead him in a bridle .
I miss Fatty he was such fun He had a great sense of timing and humour.

OP let’s hope the YOer has learnt from this and I hope you have some sort of record of you telling her that a bridle was necessary .

 

[Janique]

I had a rig a few years ago, he would chase any horse and had to be alone in the field.

I moved yard and told the YO to put him alone, as he was nasty and would hurt other horses.

The next morning, as i arrived, i nearly had a heart attack as i could see a small pony covering in the corner of his field.

Luckily, he didn't hurt the pony but got him in a corner and wouldn't let him move.

I was livid, he could have hurt the pony, the YO then said, i thought that the pony would teach him some manners, he is normaly very dominant....

I left as soon as i could, i couldn't trust the YO after that.... I was glad that the pony didn't get hurt but my horse could have killed him, that's for sure..

What a stupid know it all woman she was....

 

[Esmae]

My old horse had to be turned out on a chifney. He was a total christian with it on and wandered along like a seaside donkey, but if you used just the headcollar you got wrapped around every gatepost in creation. To fetch in he was perfect on the headcollar, it was just turnout. YO was stupid not to take heed of your instructions. I hope she is wiser now.

 

[Bellalily]

Some people just won’t accept you know things and there’s nothing you can do about it .
Fatty could only be led in a bridle , we led him in a head collar at home because he knew the routine and if he had a moment we let him go .
He always tested out every new groom he liked to wait for a couple of weeks until they I was a fool for telling when Fatty bolts just let him go ,what would this lovely sweet ID do ? then one morning he would go for it he loved to get into the school and gallop round bucking then he would just come back to you say , now where do you want us to go .
Everytime he went somewhere else becuse at one point he spent a fair bit of time at specialist vets I told them I am giving you a bridle for a reason please use it , quite often it was necessary for them to test that out and find yes you need to lead him in a bridle .
I miss Fatty he was such fun He had a great sense of timing and humour.

OP let’s hope the YOer has learnt from this and I hope you have some sort of record of you telling her that a bridle was necessary .

That is such a sweet story and beautifully put. Sadly no, but as I’m heading off to pastures new in ten days, I’m going to reiterate at the new yard that every time he is handled, the bridle is used. You put it beautifully.

 

[Bellalily]

OP if that were me, that woman would not be handling my horses again. As for the name calling, that would be coming from me at a "professional" who showed such incompetence and put herself and my horse at risk.

She won’t anyway as she’s on crutches with a fractured knee, yet drove to the yard this afternoon. Her deputy is now doing it. I went out to bring mine in today and noticed their trough had had the ice removed, that’ll be the deputy doing a proper job, whereas the YM hadn’t broken it at all this week. As mine have hay, I’m amazed they didn’t colic tbh.

 

[Lois Lame]

Yesterday morning, he took it one step further and bolted thru the gateway, she was in front I gather, knocked her over, trod on her and ran off across the field. He trod on her knee which is very painful and she’s now not able to work, her deputy has stepped in and of course he behaved beautifully because she used his bridle to lead him.
Obviously I’m concerned she’s hurt, but the names she was calling him were awful and at the end of the day, if she’d taken my advice and used his bridle, this would not have happened. When I gently suggested it yesterday evening, she dismissed it like I don’t know my own pony!

I didn't write my post very well. I have rewritten it below.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think you need to see it from her POV for a moment.

She made a decision to lead your pony in a manner she saw fit, she had a prang, then you gave her an "I told you so." Not a good idea. Better to let sleeping dogs lie, and 'least said, soonest mended'.

What?
OP is paying for a service, she has provided the appropriate specialist equipment that the pony requires for safety. YM decided to ignore the instructions and *as a result of her own deliberate disregard for the risk assessment carried out by the owner and the mitigation measures provided* has been injured. In which other job would that be acceptable? If HSE were involved because YM sustained an industrial injury, they would say it was entirely her own fault. She will have no claim on anyone's insurance because she didn't follow the safety protocol for that pony.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think you need to see it from her POV for a moment.

She made a decision to lead your pony in a manner she saw fit, she had a prang, then you gave her an "I told you so." Not a good idea. Better to let sleeping dogs lie, and 'least said, soonest mended'.

She should have led the pony in a bridle like she was advised to so the accident was her own fault and no one else's.

What if the pony had run into a road hurt himself or been killed or caused an accident where people were killed?

 

[Lois Lame]

All I meant was not to rub it in someone's face - adding insult to injury. the YO was injured due to not following the pony owners suggestion. The YO doesn't need an 'I told you so' added.

 

[Blurr]

These stories do make me think that if your horse has needs that must be met due to safety reasons, do put it in writing and get written acknowledgement. I don't know how tight that would be for any insurance claim but it couldn't hurt. They might even take your request more seriously.

 

[ycbm]

All I meant was not to rub it in someone's face - adding insult to injury. the YO was injured due to not following the pony owners suggestion. The YO doesn't need an 'I told you so' added.

She does if she's blaming the pony, and by implication the owner, for her injuries.
.

 

[ycbm]

I took a horse to hospital for an operation. I gave them instructions in writing that he was never to be left in a box without a grill on it. I knew that in a strange place he was likely to climb out over the door. What did they do the first day they mucked him out? You guessed it.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

Don't feel guilty OP you warned them.
I was a groom fir multiple years, I personally don't like turning out in a bridle/chiffney as have has horses catch their mouths being turned out and throwing their head up as you take it off in the field.
But equally realise that certain horses do need them, I may have tried without but if anything ever got away they'd be straight back in a bridle / potentially a control halter if that would work for them as no bit to get caught on teeth turning out.

Again OP this isn't on you, you have given ample warning and having already lost pony at least twice still chose to ignore advice given.

 

[Goldenstar]

All I meant was not to rub it in someone's face - adding insult to injury. the YO was injured due to not following the pony owners suggestion. The YO doesn't need an 'I told you so' added.

Actually she does, that sort of slap dash approach leads to accidents to damaged employees. lf an employee had that accident the YOer risks being subject to a claim .
I don’t get why people who run yards don’t wake up and smell the coffee.