YO doesn't like our youngster..

I See Clover

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He is bad, he isn't bad, he is a bit bad, he is a dream, he is a bit of a dream. God I am confused.

Your yard owner obviously has a reason for not liking him, probably the same reason your farrier has. I would have booted him from here till tomorrow if he was mine and kicked the farrier. NO EXCUSE AT ALL for that behaviour.

Bottom line, he is your mums horse and she can do what she wants.

Two options move yard and keep him or sell him and stay at yard.

ETA: my mum has had a lot of youngsters when she was younger, but this is the first she has had for quite a while.


Is he the first youngster you have had?

I thought I have come across quite clear. When we first moved he could be a pain going out in the morning, however, he is fine now. I've never once said he is a dream that was another poster.

Like I said before I just wanted to vent my frustration not to achieve anything. He is my mums horse and if she wants to sell him she can.
 
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Meowy Catkin

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ISC - Again, because I've never met your YO, I can't say whether or not she is an idiot or a very good horsewoman. However the kind of person that makes the sort of nasty comment that you've mentioned is generally, IME not to be trusted.

I really think that you need to sit down with your Mum and really look at this properly. Go through all the pros and cons of keeping him, including the financial side. Go through his behaviour. Has he improved with training? Can the 'blips' be ignored, or are they an indication that he is still lacking in training? Are you (you and your Mum) up to the task of continuing his training?

From what you've said in more recent posts, he's improved a lot, so you are obviously doing something right.

All I really wanted to make clear, is that you shouldn't let someone bully you into selling a horse that you actually want to keep. If you want to sell, then that's a different matter.

If you decide to keep him, then moving to a more supportive yard would be a good option.
 

Polotash

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As a yard owner I'm afraid I'm on her side. Some youngsters are thugs - some just seem born that way, and some aren't properly disciplined and develop that way. If she dreads handling him then she is quite right to say she doesn't want him on her yard any more. Either you sell him, or move him. With horses selling the way they are if she's managed to find you a taker for him, you should thank your lucky stars, since buyers for thuggish youngsters are thin on the ground.

It'll be her liability insurance if he does kick somone else don't forget....
 

Goldenstar

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I bet the kicking the farrier was the final straw with the YO she has grooms she can't risk this we now knows the horse is inclined to takes pot shot at people who annoy her .
Next time it might be a broken leg and the YO being held responsible.
 

TPO

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Hey, sorry to read things aren't going smoothly. Are you still on M's yard; just it doesn't sound like hers from the description (sure her's is much bigger)? I know exactly how trapped you'll be feeling giving the lack of decent yards in our area!

Maybe, like another poster suggested, your mum has for whatever reason had doubts about the youngster and the YO saying this has given her a guilt free way out. It can be hard to admit you've changed your mind or aren't clicking with a horse and I'm sure all the livery yard related stresses won't have help - that sucks the joy out of everything!! lI'd say if your mum really wanted to keep the youngster she'd move/find ways to save money etc. With winter looming it's not the best time of year and can be pretty off putting if you're already waivering about horse ownership.

Although I'd normally say to try to sell privately it's coming into winter and the market is pretty full of youngsters. If the dealer will take him it sounds like it could be a viable option and a way of getting money for him plus not having to bleed money all through winter.

Good luck whatever you both decide.
 

mytwofriends

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Without trawling the entire thread, but reading enough to get the gist, I can see the YO's point about not wanting a horse on her yard that she's not happy handling herself, or by her staff. However, what right is it of hers to insist that it's sold? If the owner (OP's mum) is happy enough with it, and is willing to work through any teething troubles, then so be it. Considering the horse is on DIY it should have limited direct contact with the YO anyway, and it sounds like OP said alternative arrangements could be made to avoid the groom being involved, if I read correctly? Therefore it need be no-one else's business.

There's far too much bullying by know-it-alls in the horse world.
 
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Goldenstar

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At the risk of being accused of being a bit mad I do think you can handle horses like this too much and they can be better once they are easy to catch and put the head collar on going onto a minimum invention roultine keep on the bare minimum of food and turned out and ignored a bit and even better if you can find a very dominant brood mare who teach this horse manners better than any human can.
Then when he's three you get them broken away from home as they are better in new environments .
A freind bred a pony who was so well handled he had no fear of people other horse dogs everything was a playmate three weeks with us being pasted from dawn to dust by my two mares made him a much nicer person.
 

Rowreach

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I bet the kicking the farrier was the final straw with the YO
I expect you are right. I think some of you are being a little unfair to the YO and making judgements about her motives and character without her having the benefit of explanation!

Frankly if a livery's horse had kicked my farrier out of the stable I think my sympathy would have totally run out too.

If it was my own horse that had done this I would be utterly mortified and would be beside myself apologising to the farrier, the YO, buying them beer/wine/chocolates etc and spending an awful lot of time sorting the horse out so he NEVER did this again.

I wouldn't be on a public horsey forum whinging about the YO "not liking our youngster".
 

LollyDolly

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Why? If a person is autistic it's accepted as fact you don't beat about the bush and nobody is offended; there are some horses that earn that title too and this could be one of them (I'm not saying he is But it IS a possibility; not all horses are perfectly bright and normal.

To quote the original text:

She said he was really slow (both physically and mentally) and if he were human he would be autistic

It is a well known fact that people with autism are not slow, they are far, far from it. They may struggle with social skills, however they have what is known as laserlight intelligence and have a tendency to be brilliant in one specific area.
Your line of "perfectly bright" shows a severe lack of knowledge on the subject of autism, both Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton were considered to be autistic and I would class them as a bit better than just "bright", wouldn't you?
It wouldn't hurt to do some background reading about it before running your mouth about something which you clearly don't understand, an autistic sufferer may have many faults and problems however being "slow" is certainly not one of them.

This comes from a person who has studied the nature of psychology and the bio mechanisms of the human brain for four years, I also just so happen to have a lovely younger brother who suffers from autism.
So not only have I read about it in a book, but I lived with it in day to day life which gives me an incredible understanding of the condition.
 

rascal

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If the other farrier hurt the horse thats probably why he kicked this one. Any young horse who is hurt having a trim would probably act the same way, its fear. If your mom likes the horse i would move him to another yard and stick with improving his manners, it will take time to restore his faith in farriers.
Young horses learn an awful about good manners from other horses. I wouldnt back one at three though, 4 is plenty early enough.
 

Goldenstar

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The horse needs to learn you don't kick humans period.By four there's every risk that this horse will be large strong and bolsy backing at three is fine if you have the experiance and skill to do it without overworking the horse .
With some horses it's absolutely vital to get their minds thinking the right way and all the long reining gentle lunging learning to respect and obey voice commands being backed and gently ridden away will not harm a healthy well grown cob x.
 

stormox

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Is the yard owner qualified? It sounds to me she's scared of the horse. Anyone who runs a yard should be capable of handling a young horse! And most young horses are disrespectful until taught different.
I think the YO should offer help and support, but not advice unless asked, unless of course its affecting any horses welfare. It may be her yard, but she is being paid for the use of it.
But if you do sell, don't take the 'pittance' being offered- put an advert in and sell sensibly.
 

Jericho

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This a small private yard it is the YOers yard no one should ever have to keep a horse on THEIR yard that they feel they don't want there period.
It's not about whether she can handle or not handle the horse its about what the YOer wants.
The YO employs staff if she is unhappy about this horse she canot have it on the yard she is responsible for them.
From what op 's said this is a small yard with the owners own horses and a few liverys there's no way I would have my enjoyment of my yard and my horses ruined by having a horse I did not want on the yard on the yard.
Just as liverys can leave for arbitrary reasons yard owners have every right to ask a livery to remove a horse they don't care for.
It's not to do with the YOers competence it's about her wishes.

I agree with this I am afraid. I kinda understand where your YO is coming from aside from the way she made the rather harsh comments and her opinion on whether the horse should be sold which really is none of her business. I had a shetland livery stay at mine and I really did not like the little s*d - it was illmannered, bargy and made my little set up at home rather unenjoyable at times and I really started to (rather immaturely!) resent it. No amount of me trying to instill any manners in it when I looked after it made a blind bit of notice!

Thankfully she sold up but I think after much longer I would have said that she would have to leave. Sorry, thats probably not what you want to hear. Maybe your Mum really isnt happy with him - perhaps you should start having a good chat with your Mum about what she wants, maybe look around at other horses for loan / sale to see if she can get an idea of whether something else might be more suitable. If she really likes him and wants to keep him then you may need to move yards. Its unlikely your YO is going to change her opinion of him at this stage.
 

I See Clover

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I bet the kicking the farrier was the final straw with the YO
I expect you are right. I think some of you are being a little unfair to the YO and making judgements about her motives and character without her having the benefit of explanation!

Frankly if a livery's horse had kicked my farrier out of the stable I think my sympathy would have totally run out too.

If it was my own horse that had done this I would be utterly mortified and would be beside myself apologising to the farrier, the YO, buying them beer/wine/chocolates etc and spending an awful lot of time sorting the horse out so he NEVER did this again.

I wouldn't be on a public horsey forum whinging about the YO "not liking our youngster".

Of course my mum apologised. She still hasn't stopped apologising. I have not condoned what he did.

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I just needed somewhere to vent. I am not whinging, I think the YO is well within her right to not want him on the yard if it makes her feel this way. I just couldn't understand her reasoning.
 

Rowreach

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I bet the kicking the farrier was the final straw with the YO

Of course my mum apologised. She still hasn't stopped apologising. I have not condoned what he did.

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I just needed somewhere to vent. I am not whinging, I think the YO is well within her right to not want him on the yard if it makes her feel this way. I just couldn't understand her reasoning.

Nope you don't need to justify yourself to me, but you have opened up your YO to a whole load of unpleasant comments on an open forum, and tbh how can you NOT understand her reasoning? If she sees this thread, started by someone calling themselves her friend, she'll probably ask you to take the other horse away as well :(.
 

Goldenstar

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I see Clover no one is getting at you ,you posted on an open forum now you are getting a range of views from all sides, that's what happens here
You don't need to justify yourself just understand on a forum like this you will get views from all sides.
I don't know if I hope the YOer sees this or not on balance I hope not as I suspect she might not be pleased and that could result in both horses looking for a new yard.
 

Maesfen

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Don't generalise Lolly dolly, I appreciate you might know the condition more than I do but you don't know the autism sufferer that I do and he is very slow. Once he gets something he never forgets it but it takes a long time and many many repetitions to 'get' something; just like with some horses.
 

rodeo12

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Defo have to agree. And yep, autistic people can be really clever in one element, but honestly, sometimes it's art and every other element of life is such hard work - some might call that slow.

I know children who could tell you where they were at any time, at any date back to when they were a toddler and could remember - it is incredible.

I know some amazing autistic teenagers who are amazing with computers - such bright sparks - to the point because of their lacking of social skills they think it's ok to do what we would call 'hacking' into others computers as they have the ability - no one ever taught them to resystem a computer etc - they just learnt.

I also know teenage autistic children who wouldn't be able to do anything alone. Where the support given is constantly to try and make them independent. Crossing a road, again and again, where you're reminding them to stop and look as they have no awareness of the danger of moving cars. Where you are still trying to get them to do 2+3. Or to be able to pay for something at the shop. And as quoted - it's going over things again and again and again. Some people might just call that slow. Part of my job is to find a positive in every child, but it's also to know their weakness. Would never put a child down. However, humans have terms we use to describe people. And as previously said - we all have traits of autism in us. How many times have we called a friend 'special' or 'a bit slow'. I think it needs to be taken into context.

Think the problem is people over generalise. For example people have taken the yard owners comment to mean every autistic child is now being called 'slow' and probably a bit dumb. But then now, it's being argued every child is perfectly bright apart from social skills, which is not true either. People just need to relax a little. We all have our own experiences of autism and yes that will help form our judgement, but other people have experienced different things associated with autism.

I still stand by the fact I don't think the yard owner meant anything by it and there's no need for it to cause a huge problem
 

peaceandquiet1

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As someone whose OH is a farrier, I wondered what strategy you and your mum had in mind to resolve the issue of kicking the farrier? I have a horse (now 19) and he was very difficult to trim and later shoe as a youngster; he had been trimmed by his breeder and frankly his feet were a mess when we bought him aged 2. Took years of work to get him not to strike out and we had get the vet to sedate him intravenously for a year or too then moved on to Sedalin. He was fine once he matured. I agree about it possibly being down to a bad experience but obviously it wouldn't matter what yard you were on, he will be very unpopular if he kicks the farrier. Can you and your mum handle and pick up all of his feet?
 
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