YO issues - are we being behaving unacceptably?!

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doris2008

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Ok..biscuits at the ready..
Basically me & friend have been at yard since autumn. We pay for part livery. This includes 5 day feed/rug change/turnout. We then do evenings, muck out etc and then we are DIY at weekend.
Due to YO having an inability to have any kind of routine and regularly not turning up until gone half nine, my friend has started to go down before work and turning our 2 out. I have then been doing our 2 in the evenings. We also take turns at weekends so one of us gets a lie in etc.
Basically YO has kicked off at us at the weekend saying that she is not happy about us doing favours for each other and that its a business at the end of the day and not a diy yard?! We are not doing her out of any money - we still pay the same part livery price and she has to ultimately do less! If I didnt think she already knew it, I would assume she was thinking if we didnt help each other we'd pay her to do it - but that wouldn't be the case, we'd do it ourselves. :rolleyes:
She has said she is going to call a yard meeting so we all know where we stand. Frankly I think we will have to tell her straight that if she actually did her job properly in the mornings, we wouldnt have to do it for her. Or are we way out of line?!

To be honest, I think we've been very tolerant - there has been a massive turnover of liveries over the last few months, and each time she comes up with a story that the livery has done wrong, but having visited a few yards at the weekend, the moment we mention her name everyone pales! :eek:
My horse fell over in her care a couple of weeks ago and didnt bother telling me - I think to be honest she has been a bit off since then, as I did say to her that I want to be told if it happens again.

So, we are desperatley trying to find somewhere we can go together, but its not proving easy. It's such a shame too, as the other liveries are nice, the grazing is fab and the riding is by far the best in the area.

What do you guys think, are we in the wrong?
 
No you're absolutely not in the wrong. You're paying for a service which she is not delivering properly. I think you need to tell her - but I think you need to be prepared to get out soon!
 
I think you are completely in the right.
At this meeting, calmly say that you are still paying for part livery, so she isn't loosing out financially. Say that you don't feel 9.30 is an unacceptable time for horses to be turned out in the morning, and this is the reason you and your friend have been coming up to do it, and if they are turned out early enough you would happily stay at home having a lie in, instead of having to come up to the yard.
 
I assume that when you set up the part livery arrangement you stated that you wanted your horses turned out before 9.30am? or, that as soon as you realised the YO wasn't keeping to a routine you raised the issue and she is still continuing to turnout at irregular times - contrary to what has been arranged? If this is the case then she is in the wrong.

As a YO I put a stop to people doing favours for each other - if they can't do their own horses then I do it and charge for this. It seems mean I know, however I have to make some money, I don't run a livery yard for fun. Also, as past experience has taught me, when people do favours for each other, it can soon lead to bad feelings where one person feels she isn't getting her fair share etc. This, in turn, leads to a bad atmosphere on the yard - and we all know how horrible this can be:rolleyes: I am not saying that you or your friend would be like this - just that you have to set one rule for all.

Hopefully, the yard meeting will clear up all these issues:)
 
OP, where are you as someone on here might know of a yard with 2 spaces?

I don't think your in the wrong. You are paying for a service that your having to do...why have a dog and bark yourself?
However, if your not happy with the service that your paying for then you need to tell the YO. She's not a mind reader and might not be aware that your not happy with 9.30 turnout etc

If your not happy with the service your provided then a yard meeting sounds a good idea, you will all get the opportunity to have your say. If your still not happy then vote with your feet but at least you would have tried talking to each other like adults.

If the yard has a high turnover of liveries then maybe the YO will eventually take the hint that her liveries aren't happy but it's her yard and her rules. If you don't like them then move, don't whine amongst yourselves and stick it out making everyone more unhappy and frustrated.
 
I think you YO is going to point out that it's not fair on the other horses left in the stable whilst yours are being turned out.

That said, then like you ssay, if she got there early enough, you wouldn't have anything to do because she would have aready put the horses out. It's light from 6.30am now and if you're running a livery business, you should be seeing to your clients horses as early as you can to keep horses & owners happy.

I'd try not to move, it sounds like a good yard in a lot of ways and would be even better if you could iron this out
 
I always think these sorts of posts are impossible to give any advice on, if the yo posted from her point of view we could as well be agreeing with her.
I am in the very fortunate position of not being on a yard anymore but I have spent about 15yrs with livery dramas. She may not want horses being turned out at different times (I wouldn't) and may want the fields to have slightly longer to dry out before horses are out longer hours (I would). Anyway my point is, with yards you have to make a decision where is best for your horses and then accept that there are no perfect yards and bite your tongue over certain issues.
 
I'd be really unhappy if I was paying for a service that I wasn't getting. But it does depend on whether she knows what your expectations are, whether she has already advised what her rules are etc.

Sounds like DIY with you and your friend mucking in with each other would be the best solution if you can find somewhere.
 
I'd move as soon as I could find somewhere else. I would refuse point blank to pay for part livery when it is effectively DIY and I also wouldn't be putting up with the attitude problem she seems to have.

It's unacceptable for YO not to make you aware of your horses fall. Since she's going on about how it's a part livery yard, then I would be pointing out how she then should be doing her bl**dy job properly!!
 
I have to say that unless you have a contract which stipulates that your horses will be turned out before 9.30am daily then your y/o is doing nothing wrong by not turning them out til 9.30am.

I too prefer my horse to be out as much as possible so it is one of the first questions on my list when looking at new yards. If turnout is restricted, I respect that is the y/o's way and don't move my horse there. I NEVER assume that my horse can go out whenever I please without asking the question.

I'd speak to your y/o and find out her reasons for not turning out til after 9.30am and if you are unhappy with the answer and unable to resolve it in your favour then look to move. But you do have to respect that y/o's who do full, part and assisted DIY will work to their own timescales which won't always match your ideals... It takes quite a while to rug change and turnout a yard full of horses rather than just one or two...
 
I am having trouble seeing what the problem is having your horse turned out gone 9.30am. I have left a yard with no winter turn out and one where the YM/YO wouldn't turn out at all and now am on assisted DIY where the yard turn out and bring in. Perhaps I am odd, as I don't particularly care when my horse goes out as long as she does. I also don't care how long she is out for as long as she has a little bit of out time.

Hard to advise, as only you know what you can tolerate and what you can't.
 
So you're paying for a service AND having to do it yourself? I can't quite see what the YO is complaining about! 9.30 is just too late for horses, no one would be happy with that, she is being lazy or she needs to find more help to do the job she is already being paid for.
 
I don't think the yard owner can complain if you are still paying the agreed fee for Part Livery, although, if we had horses on our yard that were on Part/Full livery then we would be pretty miffed if any stranger turned up to do the horses. If some one wishes for a friend/third party to attend to their horse this person has to be stated on their contract, this then covers everyones backs from an insurance point of view.
However, not sure why everyone thinks 9.30 am is too late for a horse to be turned out. Horses don't live by a clock, they live by routine.
If the routine is feed, hay, turn out then thats what they expect, they won't start getting stressed about the time!
At the moment, at our yard we have a turn out time of ten until 4 on our paddocks to stop them getting churned up as its still very wet and muddy.
 
I think the issue here is communication.

Before you & your friend started turning-out on week-days, did you speak to the YO about it? I think that I would get the hump if I were a YO and my part-liveries started doing their horses themselves without just having a chat with me about it first.

I really don't think the best way of resolving it would be this: " Frankly I think we will have to tell her straight that if she actually did her job properly in the mornings, we wouldnt have to do it for her."

I would think it would be better to apologise and say that you would just really like your horses turned-out early, and you didn't realise it would be a problem - see if you can find a way forward that you're all happy with. Otherwise, I would think you are going to fall out with her, and have to find another yard.
 
charlie76 - I don't think 9.30 is too late for the horses, but the OP said that the problem is a lack of routine and that the YO just comes down to turn them out at any time.

That is what I see as the problem, if she turned out everyday at 9.30 then it would be different.
 
Definately have my sympathies. I've been at a yard where you weren't allowed to help each other (was DIY yard) but had tp pay YO. Fine & danady as long as you trust them to do ask you ask, which I didn't. I would want my horse out early (currently goes out 5.30am, many other livieries also down there turning out that early) with her field mates. If you were lucky YO would turn out 10-11am, if you were unlucky they just didn't bother.

Also if you tried to have a friendly chat about these things, she's immediately get the hump (no matter how poliet you were) & give you the 'that's the way it is, take it or go by the weekend' routine. There were many good points (such as extensive off road hacking) that made you tolerate the rubbish. Depending on their temperament, it can be very difficult to approach a YO. I do think though you should have asked before turning up in the mornings.
 
So long as my horses had enough hay to see them through to whatever time they were turned out it wouldn't bother me at all whether this turn out time was 8am or 9.30am, and so long as all horses were being fed and turned out at the same time. Maybe that is what the YO isn't happy with? That the other horses who are being done at 9.30am are being upset by you and your friend doing your own horses long before the other horses are being done?

If the grazing is good and the hacking is good then the time the horses are being turned out wouldn't register with me as a complaint.
 
Is there a reason she turns out late? Is she doing to try and cut down the number of hours the horses are out to save the grazing?

There's a yard in our area in the winter horses are only out 11-2.30....... means you HAVE to pay to have them done if you work (very cheeky IMO) but is done because of the grazing.

I also don't have a problem with 9.30 turnout... a lot of people on DIY do this is they have kids after the school run. But it's your horse at the end of the day.

Does she offer evening/weekend services? That might be why she feels she's missing out. It is a common rule on yards that you can't help each other, as it is a business. But that would have to be in your contract.
 
spring feather, thats what I was trying to say. If the horses have been put to bed with adequate hay and water to see them through until turn out time then it doesn't matter what time they are turned out as they don't have a concept of time.
If they haven't then thats different but, I assume you do them in the evening?? In which case, make sure they have plenty of hay and water when you leave.
 
If you think how long it takes to feed and rug a yard of horses though, 9.30 seems quite good to me. I always make sure my horse has enough hay to last him
 
IMO you haven't done anything wrong. They are your horses and it's really not any skin off of the YO back if she is still getting paid for a job she isn't even doing! Maybe you should have made her aware of the plan to turn yours/you friends out beforehand but not had to ask if this was ok, again, they are YOUR horses. A lot of horses need routine and can get stressed without it (I can always tell if my mare has been turned out a little late because her bed is all churned up as she does get stressed) and I can completely understand why you would be annoyed with the YO coming up whenever she pleases. When you have the meeting state your point but see if it can be resolved calmly and politely before you go to measures of leaving.
 
Hio Doris

I haven't read all the replies but I would like to say that yes I think you are right to be irritated but I would tread wary if I were you because you could find yourslef in the fire rather than the fryongpan...

As you say....the grazing is good and the liveries are nice and the riding is also very good.

It is so easy to move for the wrong reasons, I have done it myself and although the yard I am in now is very nice it has very limited turnout and the hacking involves using a busy road before you are able to get onto quieter ones. Not ideal...I moved because I didn't like the way my horse was being looked after on full livery and although I still think that I wish I had approached my move differently. I rushed it a bit.

But don't be shy at the Yard Meeting, it is your opportunity to say your bit which is very reasonable, if she can't put horses out at a proper time and you are willing to do it for her where is the problem? Maybe when she hears it she will see herself how unreasonable she is being. And other liveries may very well share your view and support you. The fact she is calling a meeting is quite a good sign!!

(big sigh) ........No such thing as the perfect yard..how often have we said that?

Good luck to you and your pal.
 
ronansmum said:
But don't be shy at the Yard Meeting, it is your opportunity to say your bit which is very reasonable, if she can't put horses out at a proper time and you are willing to do it for her where is the problem?
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The problem could be that the horses being out early could a) be ruining the grazing for the rest of the year. or b) upsetting other horses on the yard. or c) causing a disturbance to the y/o (that could be after all a reason for her only offering assisted liveries) or d) setting an unwelcome precident amongst liveries or all of the above and many more . At the end of the day, rules are rules and to not abide by them risks upset.

I think the best way to deal with it is to say ' We're very sorry. We really didn't think you'd have a problem with it, after all we are still paying you for the services but you aren't having to do them. we would really like our horses turned out earlier in the day because of xyz. How can we resolve this?'

TBH although I prefer mine out before (and I am on DIY for this very reason), 9.30am really isn't THAT late to be turned out... especially in grotty weather.
 
I think your right to be annoyed- Are you at my yard by any chance!? it sounds very very familiar. My horse is on complete DIY so not my problem but it does mean i am around more and see what go's on at the yard- A few liveries stay in some days til 1.30 PM!!! without being mucked out hayed or watered (they do get fed breakfast).

I would love to own my own yard as i know i could sure as hell run it a damn site better than some people who are lucky enough to be in this position- yes i know its hard work I have run yards single handedly for holiday cover etc
 
ronansmum said:
if she can't put horses out at a proper time
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And herein lies the problem. What is a "proper time"? Just from the responses on this thread alone we can see that some people don't think 9.30am is too late, while others do. It's a bit like when do you have dinner? I eat any time between 8pm and 9pm but I know many people who couldn't consider having dinner any later than 6pm.
 
a proper time doesn't exist. we have people on our yard that will often say' I can't feed yet, its not 6 o clock yet!' The horse does not know its not 6 o clock, all they know is they come in, they are groomed, rug goes on, into stable, have a wee and be fed. They don't glance up at the clock and think to themselves 'oh I won't create for my tea, the routines the same, but its not 6 o clock yet!'
 
My horses can have morning feed any time between 6.30 up to 9.30am depending on what other things I have to do. I very rarely finish night time stables before 7pm and usually a bit later. Their 'routine' is feed, hay and muck out. Go out in rota at the moment because no proper turn out yet as waiting for the grass to arrive. Are they stressed? - No. Do they bang doors and demand food and attention?-No.

Re the original post question, just talk about it. Your horses won't die just because they don't go out at the crack of dawn, but if that is what you prefer then see if it can be sorted, and don't let it get blown up out of all proportion and cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
Doris 2008 states that the YO doesn't actually turn up until gone 9.30am so what time do the horses actually get out? I too think that find a yard to suit in every way is virtually impossible due to individual preferences. My two friends and I moved yards last year. The new YO had contracts on the stable doors the day we moved in outlining what was agreed before the move. Great we thought! The problems have come from our 3 being the DIY's and the other 2 being the YO's 1 and a full liverey. What was expected of us and what the YO does ie: poo picking are two very different things! So we poo pick, she doesn't so we are poo picking for all. This amongst lots of other things leads to bad feeling. When we have tried to address some of these issues the response is 'if you don't like it, find somewhere else'. Perhaps we should and we have looked around but the yard is two minutes from my house with fab hacking etc. All these things really matter as I am a single, working parent with only 24hours in a day! We have horses for pleasure and it is such a shame when bad feeling begins to spoil this. Really feel for your dilemma! Incidentally, we turn out at 6am every morning. I would hate to think of my boy being in till gone 9.30am! Keep smiling!
 
OP, if there's been a high turnover of liveries, it sounds like the YO's problem and not yours. You might look into moving yards. Life is too short to put up with YO drama!
 
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