YO made me cry.... (rant :( )

NW1 said:
Thank you, I appreciate everyones comments - & yes you never want to hear that people think your horse is fat, but i will take those opinions on board. I do agree that seeing a horse every day you perception of them can become tainted and this is what i mentioned to the vet nurse when i spoke to her.

I would just like to add in regards to the previous photos - there are none more recent then a year ago! & his work load has increased since then!

I obviously didn't convey how rude the YO was to one of her paying clients! I think maybe the emphasis was more on him being morbidly obese & that was she thought was gospel, i didn't convey that well.

I do wonder if i had posted him as a draft horse (which he is being a clyde. he is a HW cob he has nearly 11" of bone!!) would peoples opinions be different?
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Doesn't change my opinion, sorry.
 
Just to let everyone know that spillers offer a service where they will come and and weigh and score your horses. We had it done a couple of months ago and she is coming out again this week. Its great she brings an electronic weigh thing out and offers advice and you get some money off vouchers. Needs to be 10 or more horses for it to be free. Its a great service and its not very well advertised so thought would let you know.
 
I must admit that you calling him a draught horse doesn't make any difference. A condition score is a condition score, regardless of the 'type' of horse. I think getting the vet out is the best course of action.
Nash2 - that's really helpful, thanks! I often wonder how accurate the weight tape is so would love to know her real weight!
 
NW1 said:
Thank you, I appreciate everyones comments - & yes you never want to hear that people think your horse is fat, but i will take those opinions on board. I do agree that seeing a horse every day you perception of them can become tainted and this is what i mentioned to the vet nurse when i spoke to her.

I would just like to add in regards to the previous photos - there are none more recent then a year ago! & his work load has increased since then!

I obviously didn't convey how rude the YO was to one of her paying clients! I think maybe the emphasis was more on him being morbidly obese & that was she thought was gospel, i didn't convey that well.

I do wonder if i had posted him as a draft horse (which he is being a clyde. he is a HW cob he has nearly 11" of bone!!) would peoples opinions be different?
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I looked at the piccies from another post and i dont see why people are saying he is fat, looks good to me, I do love my cobs and he looks really nice :)
 
My welsh D was doing 15-20 mile pleasure rides weekly with ease a couple of seasons ago, mainly at trot and not overworked/sweaty at all...he also did up to 20 miles of hacking throughout the week overall. He was fit as a fiddle...fitter than he has ever been...but still carrying too much weight.
Regardless of whether your horse is overweight or not (difficult without a photo) I wish someone had taken me to one side last year to give me a warning (polite or not!) about my horses weight...and then perhaps he would not have gone through the misery of laminitis last autumn for 8 long months of hell...
 
Looking at the photos from last year, I honestly don't really think he's that overweight in them to be honest. His front end looks a bit more built up than his back end in them throwing the proportion out a little bit as he has a huuuuge shoulder, but he's not got a huge fatty crest nor can I see ripples anywhere and he seems to take up your leg well without looking like you're sat on a barrel.


Obviously, not his current state though so can't comment on that and am slightly worried with how strong you decribed your Y/O was coming on with the subject. But from them ones from last year, I don't really see an obesity problem going on in them.

Let us know how the condition scoring goes :)
 
It's nice that your YO is interested in your horses welfare especially as you are on full livery.

However, if she was rude that's unprofessional and really not on.

I would wait and see what your vet says especially as you have already cut his feed and hay down, also get your vet to show you how to condition score.

I would say your horse is a bit overweight even given his breeding but not morbidly obese, however it's hard to tell from a photo.

You would hope that a livery yard owner has years of experience of working at a high level within equine industry and also the theoretical knowledge necessary to take care of a variety or horses.

However this definetly isn't always the case, I have to say we have a young YO near us who did her stage one at the local college and now thinks she's an expert in every area :rolleyes: some of the things she says to her liveries are beyond belief, a child would have better sense, if your YO is anything like her you have my sympathy :D
 
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Based on those pictures obese is too strong a word, although they are not recent. BUT it takes three times as long to lose weight as to gain it, so even if it is only a little bit, it is worth doing something about it NOW, before it turns into a serious problem.
 
My boy is a 13.2hh Fell and lives on fresh air. When the farrier came at the start of May he pointed out to my YO (I wasn't there) that pony was overweight and didn't want to get any fatter. I knew he was overweight and thought I was taking corrective action but as a result of this (after bawling my eyes out that I was going to kill my boy from laminitis in the next 24 hours!) we got tougher with his regime.

He is now worked 6 days a week and I have got much stricter with his turnout and hay. He has 3.5 hours maximum (between 2 - 3.5 hours) per day grazing and then 2 small haynets for the rest of the day before I give him his night one in the evening. I tried a grazing muzzle but he is an eating machine and rubbed his nose raw on the second day.

I know how ridiculously hard it is to keep the weight off an exceptionally good doer and sometimes what you think is enough is not strict enough - I've learned a whole new level of strictness! My boy is still chubby but he is getting better and developing a better shape.

It was wrong of your yard owner to be rude but if they have his best intentions at heart then at least you know they will stick to any weight-loss regime that is set up for him. Great idea to get the vet out. Would ignore the weightape though - I weightaped my boy regularly and thought he was doing fine, his girth area actually slimmed off and his girth was easier to do up but he was piling fat onto his neck and bottom. It's so hard when you see them everyday to see things objectively. I think I could work my boy into the ground but he would still need restricted grazing through the summer. I'm planning to catch him early next year and be prepared - I want him coming out of winter with ribs! (How easy this will be with a fell I'm not sure).
 
I think your Y/O was very wise to have words with you about her concerns. All too many people stand by and watch other people miss manage their horse's weight when just a little word could prevent them getting lami. perhaps she coud have been a bit more tactful. but would you have listened? Some horses can survive on the obese side for several years with no problems all it takes is a freak change in weather conditions or a bad trim by a farrier or cantering once to often on hard ground and you have the trigger for an attack of lami. My friends horse was one such horse and to this day I wish I'd spoken out and made her realise that her 'big' 'chunky' Welsh section D was in fact grossly overweight. RIP big lad xxx

Whatever breed or shape of horse you should always be able to feel ribs and not be able to wobble a crest.
 
Glosgirl - was shocking the weight tapes are really inaccurate. They are useful for monitoring loss and gain but not for actually knowing the weight. Luckily my was weighing too heavy!
 
Don't cry. You obviously care for your horse and are doing the right thing getting a vet out for a check and professional opinion. A lot of people who are used to TB's etc do find it difficult when it comes to the weight of big horses such as drafts and their xs etc.

I have a Clydey x and he is well rounded on just chaff and grass, its natural at this time of year, but he is not obese. Horses put it on over the winter and loose it over the winter, it is natural.

Your horse is on full livery and the YO should have been monitoring your horse closer and not blaming you.

I hope all goes well with the vet, let us know how you get on.
 
Obviously haven't seen up to date photos - but prepared to get shot here :D

From the photos posted that were from last year I don't think for a show cob he is overweight.

With appologies to the poster and owner of the black cob on the same thread (she did post the horse had lost some considerable weight) to me that is an overweight cob.
 
NW1 said:
I do wonder if i had posted him as a draft horse (which he is being a clyde. he is a HW cob he has nearly 11" of bone!!) would peoples opinions be different?
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Hovis is a 16.2HH Clydie cross and he's weighing in at 590kg at the moment which is heavy for him. I'm upping his work load and bringing him in at night to stop him enjoying the grass a little TOO much! He normally weigh in at 560kg (ish) of pure muscle so he has put on "summer" weight with good grass.
710kg sounds heavy but I am no expert - i prefer to keep Hovis light to prevent damage to his joints - i jump him etc so stress his bones as it is without him carrying too much weight.
PS He is 7 just like your boy
 
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I'm afraid to post what I think and sorry to say cob owners are the worst offenders
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Try not to get too upset, you are doing the right thing by getting the vet for a second opinion.

Also, although she upset you, perhaps went about it the wrong way, but at least if she has concerns, she's a YO that voices them to the owner, rather than not giving a dam or moaning to everyone else about it behind your back and she has mentioned the weight issue twice to you (despite if its an issue or not) least she is telling you what she thinks.

However, I agree with what others have said, if your horse is on full livery, then its there responsibilty to point these things out to you and ask you if they can reduce his food, so maybe the YO is covering herself from any blame should anyones horse go down with lami.

I'd just wait to see what you vet says, if he's fine then I'm sure hopefully your YO's mind will be at rest and she'll have to lump it if she still disagrees.

:)
 
brighteyes said:
I'm afraid to post what I think and sorry to say cob owners are the worst offenders
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As a native owner I will say though that it is ridicuously hard to manage the weight of a good doer. I used to work for a feed comany and spent my days trotting out all the textbook advice about how to keep weight off. I now have my Fell and his weight is my biggest struggle. It is very hard and sorry to say it but they do stay in proportion as they get fatter (well, my boy does) and the weight can just creep up without you realising especially when you see them every day. Not making excuses, I spend forever worrying about my boys weight and working on reducing it but it's much harder than I ever thought it was when I used to dole out advice to people.
 
I had the oposite problem! Mine put on a LOT of weight in about a week after going out all nighton the grass.I tried to talk to the YM about this quite aggressive.He needs a lot of fast work she said (not actually true walking and trotting apparently forweight loss) and horses like THAT! always put on weight.He has lost some since, for a variety of reasons, but she does not want to turn him out during the day and keepin at night.
 
See what the vet says, if she is right then you said you would admit you were wrong, so thats fair enough, but if she is wrong will she be admitting it ???
 
OP, I'm afraid he does look over weight in those older photos. :( Please could you show us the more recent one, as you say he is now fitter? :)
 
Walrus said:
As a native owner I will say though that it is ridicuously hard to manage the weight of a good doer. I used to work for a feed comany and spent my days trotting out all the textbook advice about how to keep weight off. I now have my Fell and his weight is my biggest struggle. It is very hard and sorry to say it but they do stay in proportion as they get fatter (well, my boy does) and the weight can just creep up without you realising especially when you see them every day. Not making excuses, I spend forever worrying about my boys weight and working on reducing it but it's much harder than I ever thought it was when I used to dole out advice to people.
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I would echo Walrus.
I've got a little cobby/chunky chap in to sell who is a good doer and overweight. The horse is exercised, lives 24/7 on grazing barely more than dry earth and gets a handful of happy hoof after work. I'm an experienced owner and all my others have been of the sporthorse variety, and even the good-doer sporthorses are 10x easier to keep in shape than the fatty native/cobs. I've been amazed on how little this chap lives on! I even got a snotty comment from brighteyes & spudlet on a picture I posted (not about fatness!) about his weight, which wasn't put politely at all, yet they didn't even endevour to ask about how the horse was kept, or even ask if I myself thought my horse was overweight.

That said I know my fair share of people that do seem to be wearing rose-tinted specs about their horses weight, it seems to be an ever increasing trend. That includes cob types and the finer types.
 
Don't agree with a YO being that rude in terms of how she may have spoken to you but if there turns out to be a weight issue once you've seen your vet you'll know for sure and can sort out an appropriate programme for weight loss. Don't let it get to you too much though, at least you're aware and taking some action to find out if there is a problem or not :)

I agree with much of what Walrus says as I have a similar problem with my very good do-er and he could live off fresh air and it's an absolute battle to get the weight off whch is a summer of worry and getting disheartened continually as well as utterly exhausted ( me, not pony!) but we'll get there somehow.

What helped me bizarrely get more strict with myself was a horse going down with laminitis on our yard (though it may have been due to lack of trimming and foot in poor condition) and seeing just how minimal an amount of hay he was given twice a day until his condition improved.

Taking weight out of the picture so to speak, looking back at some of your show pics he's a lovely looking horse :)
 
Haven't looked at your pics so cant comment on his weight. All i would say is if you are unhappy with the service move elsewhere.
 
Not seen any photos, but I'm gonna kick butt for all your snide comments about cob owners.

How do I keep the weight off a cob? Dorey spent the winter outside, with no hay, no feed and no rug and was STILL fat when I got her in ready for foaling. What the hell?

I own a 15.1hh air-to-fat converter. The only thing I have found that keeps the weight off her is a foal at foot drinking liquid fat out of it's udders.

Just because your TBs and Warmbloods drop weight at the mere mention of work/cold/a starvation paddock doesn't mean we intentionally neglect cobs by letting them get fatter. Because short of cutting Dorey's throat so the air comes back out before it gets turned into fat, I'm not sure what I can do for her!

To the OP, she may have been rude, but it's a YO's job to ensure the animals are healthy. You've called the vet to check him over - which is entirely the right thing to do. Whatever the outcome, both you and your YO are singing from the same hymn sheet - that your horses welfare comes first!
 
I think if a YO is to speak to their customers about concerns it should be done with tact.

In many cases, tact isn't used simply because they are total know it alls and get the right hump if you dont look after your horse as they dictate.

I think my biggest all time pet hate in the horse world is know it all interfering yard owners.

Even if someone's horse is a big over weight, if said politely and once, when an owner tells them they are happy with their horse they should back off and mind their blooming own.

It doesn't sound for one minute that this YO was acting out of duty and care, if she was your horse wouldn't be overweight to start with as he's on full livery, it sound far more like she's interfering and should butt out.
I personally would have reminded her who's horse it is.

I've had it myself, and very politely put my foot down, I would never have any YO dictate how I care for my horses - they're mine!

The way your YO has handled the situation is poor, and it would have got my back up, there is just no need to be so rude.

I can't say if your horse is fat or not as I'd need to see an up to date picture x
 
Harper_Gal said:
Just because your TBs and Warmbloods drop weight at the mere mention of work/cold/a starvation paddock doesn't mean we intentionally neglect cobs by letting them get fatter.
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For the record, my WB is exactly the same. :( In winter I had her out 24/7, with a no fill rug on, and only balancer and hay (rather than the haylage she had when she was in work) and yet I was still fretting about her waist line.

Since Be has been retired, (v sadly, but on my vet's advice), keeping her weight down is a complete nightmare. She is on v v v restricted grazing and only fed a handful of good doer chaff and a cup of lo cal with her arthritis supplements each day. In the last few weeks I have opened up her starvation paddock to another 20 x 25 mts, which is largely weeds, and I did so as I was worried about the colic risk with how little grazing she had, but she has still gained a few lbs to her belly.

Managing a fatty is hard work at the best of times, but when you can't ride them it's even more tricky. Some of the stuff that I've learnt on here to help has been invaluable, and I'm really grateful for the information that others share. :)
 
Ours are currently on almost no grass, as all but the old lady are still a bit larger than we would like, although the Appy is looking the best she has since we got her. We are feeding good quality oat straw to reduce the problem of no bulk (only half a bale a day between 4) and it seems to be working well. I can recomend straw as a fibre for good doers :)
 
Not seen any photos, but I'm gonna kick butt for all your snide comments about cob owners.
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I don't think there have been snide comments about cobs (but admit to not reading all the posts....).

Good doers (whatever their breed) are just a nightmare. Amy would stand in with nothing for 8-9 hours to keep her weight off (not ideal, but it was the only way to keep her weight in check) and if he were not a bit of a windsucker, would do the same for my current horse - who incidently is a sportshorse.

But we should also remember that cobs, cob types, drafts etc. are not meant to be angular in any way - their basic design is round and sturdy. As a good friend once said to me about Amy and her diet - it's not a TB, so relax - she's meant to look like that.

However, it doesn't detract from the fact that the way we keep our horses really does lend itself to producing a fat horse. And try as we might, it can be very difficult for them to be anything other than that.
 
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