YOs, what are your thoughts on liveries doing favours for each o

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blackandwhite

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Doing my lot this morning alongside other livery who owns one horse. Lovely people, novice owners but keen to learn and really great livery mates. I'm doing mine and I notice other livery is seeing to 4 which belong to another livery. Got me thinking, how on earth can a livery business survive if the "business" concept of charging for services is circumvented by "favours". Personally I think nice livery's good nature is being exploited and financially struggling yo is (even more of) a turnip for allowing it, but it's not my business. What's your policy on "favours"?
 
I wouldn't like to be on a yard that dictated who could/couldn't see to my horse. If YO is struggling, there basic packages obviously aren't covering the costs.
 
There's always two sides, I'm on a purely DIY yard so services aren't provided by the YO so they don't get annoyed by favours between liveries and I would be a bit miffed to be dictated to as this is what I'm used to. However I do get annoyed by free-loading liveries who think its fine to off-load their horse on all and sundry so they don't have to come as often. Mutual agreement's where both parties benefit (ie rota's for bringing in and turning out) works well on our yard for some, and some of us pay someone to bring in when we're at work.
However if it wasn't just a DIY yard I wouldn't expect free favours to be allowed.

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I've never been on a yard where this would be an issue. I wouldn't be dictated by a YO over who saw to my horse. If they want to do the work then make it a full livery yard only. There is a woman who does horses on my yard, I pay my friend to do my horse. Does the other woman know, I have no idea, nor do I care, it's not her business.
 
I was on a yard years ago where this was going on by one certain person who was putting out/in ect a lot of horses each day taking the work away from the yo. She had a word in the end to stop it because at the end of the day business was being taken away from her trying to run a business and honestly think it was cheeky of the girl to do it as well as the owners taking advantage
 
Pure DIY yard but previously was on a yard that offered assistance their policy was nobody did anybody any favours! Personally I didn't like that idea and like doing favours for people and getting the same done for me! But I see how yard owners can struggle with assisted livery!
 
Having budgeted 2 weeks livery services over the birth of my little one, complications left me needing 9 weeks of help (muck out, turn in/out, feed, the full works) without help from liveries (which i do recompense) I would be up poop river lacking a mean of propulsion! We all pitch in when needed and y/o is great about it. No one runs a full on business doing services tho
 
My yard has a policy of no favours during the week. I wouldn't mind if it wasn't for the fact that the yards care standards are appaling, mucking out consists of covering up the poo and they don't even bother to top up water half the time, I don't want to pay extra for that. My friends and I just do each others under the radar but we're not trying to run a business doing it, that would be wrong.
 
On my yard I don't have a rule regarding this as such, but it is frowned upon and my clients are aware of this. I am an assisted DIY yard, and if anyone is going to make money from my business it will be me, however, I can't really stop people doing each other favours, but from experience, this nearly always ends in tears one way or another! I have extra insurance to cover the handling of clients horses, fellow liveries would not be covered should there be an accident involving another clients horse. I think my clients appreciate this which is why they prefer me to be the one handling their horses.
 
I'm am on a DIY yard and we all help each other. Even at an assisted DIY though, I would not expect to be dictated to. Of course, it's ok helping each other but I wouldn't expect to pay another livery on a yard that offers assistance.
 
I am on an assisted diy yard and we are allowed to do each other favours. I have been on one which also said this was not allowed and didnt like that one so left!
 
I have a part/ full livery yard and I don't mind the odd favour going in but if it happened all the time then I would have to put a stop to it, I am running my yard as a business and to enable me to keep the facilities, hay and bedding levels to a high standard I have to make money to do this. My basic livery costs are very reasonable and really don't make any profit , it covers the out goings each month and I don't pay myself much of a wage so these extras really help. In a day yard where no services are provided then that's fine but I think if its provided by the yard then that's who you should pay. Let's face it, if you walked into tescos and set up your own market stall you'd soon be asked to leave! Its the same principle.
 
I used to be on a yard which offered full and part livery as well as DIY. I didn't end up staying long as the staff used to "provide" me with services I didn't require!

They had a rule that no horse is to be left out alone (which is absolutely fine) so another DIY livery and I, who couldn't get up until the livery horse had been brought in used to take it in turns to bring both horses in together. This only lasted a week or so before the manager cottoned on and started bringing the horses in with the others and charging us £2.50 a time!

Hay was included in the price of DIY and I used to get a lot of "hayed" on my bill. The manager just used to randomly throw it over the door "apparently" and then charge £1 for the pleasure. The final straw was after I inquired about clipping and said I was considering a bit of a bib clip. Arrived the following evening to find horse in her stable (£2.50) mucked out and hayed (£6) and clipped! (£25) I moved that weekend as couldn't afford all the extras!
 
The yards that I have been on have been DIY and one assisted DIY so can't comment too much on how it is viewed by YO's but IME of unpaid favours work quite well although appreciate that if services are offered then it should be discussed with YO, I know of a couple who are happy for people to share turning out if no money is exchanged and it's for convenience (horses that go out first thing or are last to cone in) as they weren't interested in doing this but if it was a case of mucking out/professional services/riding then that would need to be arranged with the YO

I know of one yard that is a hunt/full livery/city peoples yard with DIY to fill the rubbish stables. Their management of horses on livery was shocking and I can't understand why people paid so much for so little in return. Beds were skipped not mucked out, horses had 30mins twice daily on a horse walker if it was raining or could go out for 1-2hrs if it was dryish. They had strict turnout times spring after clocks had changed & autumn before clocks changed horses could go out between 9-5 after clocks had changed - winter they could go out for upto 3hrs between 9 & 2 and they had access to 24/7 turnout June, July, August only if not too wet all of these could be changed at a moments notice even during the day itself.

Because of the turnout times changing to those above people might pair up so 1 would turnout at 9 and the other would come up at lunchtime to bring in, they (YO) cottoned on to that and then had a rule that only the horses owner could turn their horse out or it would have to be done by YO the turnout time would be between 10&11 and then bringing them in between 14&1500 so those that couldn't turnout themselves had to abide by this new contracted rule however YO took the piss and would charge whether the horses were actually turned out or not and without telling the DIY liveries that their horses hadn't been turned out costing liveries £30 pw for nothing!! Needless to say they had a high turnover!!

On the other side I have been involved in 2 partnerships, one where mine and another horse were in a small stable block and my horse couldn't leave stable for any reason (to be ridden or turned out) unless the other persons came too as the other would become stressed trying to climb stable door etc and that owner would bring mind in when hers came in for the same reason. The other was a 3person favour set up although ours was a bit different as the horses lived out with access to a barn where one of them had a bit sectioned off as a 'stable' one lady would go up weekday mornings to skip out her pen and turn hers out whilst handing the other 2 some food. Me and other girl would go up in the even to put hers in, ride ours and feed. At weekends we would be up most of day from 9 till 13/1400, put hers out and tide ours then one or both of us would pop back later in the evening to feed whilst other lady would come up at some point to do her stable and bring hers in. Some days we might all be up individually due to work/other commitments.

In regard to insurance mine and friends were all covered under our horses insurance to handle each other's provided no money was exchanged and we had the owners consent, this covered having walk through one horses field to get to mine or having to change a rug of the other persons horse as I had their permission to undertake these activities
 
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I have been on 4 yards where the yard manager was not paid a wage by the yard owner but had to make their living out of services. They were expected to do day to day management as well as providing services. They were all mixed yards and in theory the yard manager was supposed to have some control on new liveries so enough full liveries were there to generate the minimum needed however this didn't always happen.

Some had rules that services had to go through the yard manager though not all.
 
My general rule was (not relevant anymore) if there is someone on the yard who makes a living from extras then I use & pay them only. If there isn't anyone then I will use fairly rotated 'favours' with other liveries.
 
A friend of mine was on a yard where favours weren't allowed as this toom away from the charges they could be taking for the same tasks.

I personally wouldn't like this as I like control of my horses and not being allowed to choose ago clipped or plaited or mucked out my horse when it wasn't me would be a deal breaker for me.

My yard offers turnout and bring in only for a weekly charge and that suits me. The rest is up to me to arrange of im going away which I prefer as my parents tend to see to my boy when I'm on hols or away with work or tournaments. Paying a YO unnecessarily to do something my family does for free is outrageous.
 
A DIY yard is just that, you look after your own horse & if you want to help someone else out then get on with it. If the yard is either livery or assisted DIY then that's a whole different ball game. If you want something done then it should be done through the yard owner/groom & should be paid for.

When you go to a restaurant you buy yourself a meal, you wouldn't sit at the table & eat food you brought with you.......it's the same thing.

If people do each other favors when a service is available on a yard then at some point the yard will not be profitable & may well close. When you move to a yard you should know what is allowed & what isn't. The YO/Groom must make a living.
 
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Toby_Zaphod said:
A DIY yard is just that, you look after your own horse & if you want to help someone else out then get on with it. If the yard is either livery or assisted DIY then that's a whole different ball game. If you want something done then it should be done through the yard owner/groom & should be paid for.

When you go to a restaurant you buy yourself a meal, you wouldn't sit at the table & eat food you brought with you.......it's the same thing.

If people do each other favors when a service is available on a yard then at some point the yard will not be profitable & may well close. When you move to a yard you should know what is allowed & what isn't. The YO/Groom must make a living.
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Quite!
The yard I worked at before had a rule that only family members could look after your horse and not other liveries or friends. Otherwise they were avoiding paying charges for services which helps the yard to survive.

They did have another rule however that I thought was totally ridiculous, only family members were allowed to ride your horse! And each person had to be named on the contract. Totally stupid! It was to stop you using outside people rather than their staff to school your horse. You weren't allowed an outside instructor either.
 
I have two DIYs. Generally favours are okay but if it gets a bit much/reg we pay one another. I let people have their own coaches in (even though I coach) but I draw the line at people working elsewhere in return for coaching at my place (go do it at theirs). My yards pretty laid back but I make 0 profit from DIYs
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
A DIY yard is just that, you look after your own horse & if you want to help someone else out then get on with it. If the yard is either livery or assisted DIY then that's a whole different ball game. If you want something done then it should be done through the yard owner/groom & should be paid for.

When you go to a restaurant you buy yourself a meal, you wouldn't sit at the table & eat food you brought with you.......it's the same thing.

If people do each other favors when a service is available on a yard then at some point the yard will not be profitable & may well close. When you move to a yard you should know what is allowed & what isn't. The YO/Groom must make a living.
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This exactly!
 
We all do each other favours on our yard, any services regularly provided by the yard are already included in the weekly cost. The yard I'm on is really flexible, horses can go out and come in at the normal times, but if you want them out earlier or in later etc and organise it yourself that's totally fine. It's a great yard!

I can't imagine being on a yard that didn't allow favours or were set on in/out times, who does and doesn't do your horse etc.
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
I have two DIYs. Generally favours are okay but if it gets a bit much/reg we pay one another. I let people have their own coaches in (even though I coach) but I draw the line at people working elsewhere in return for coaching at my place (go do it at theirs). My yards pretty laid back but I make 0 profit from DIYs
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working elsewhere?
 
I never minded DIY'ers doing each other favours.............what I couldn't stand is them coming to me whinging and whining about each other! "I did 3 days for her, she only did 2 for me" etc etc, Drove me insane, both left :)
 
charlie76 said:
Quite!

They did have another rule however that I thought was totally ridiculous, only family members were allowed to ride your horse! And each person had to be named on the contract. Totally stupid! It was to stop you using outside people rather than their staff to school your horse. You weren't allowed an outside instructor either.
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That's absolutely ridiculous, surely they can't have had many liveries? Was you allowed to even use own farrier/vet?
 
chocolategirl said:
I have extra insurance to cover the handling of clients horses, fellow liveries would not be covered should there be an accident involving another clients horse. I think my clients appreciate this which is why they prefer me to be the one handling their horses.
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My previous yard was DIY, part and full. The YO would demand that we bring in other livery horses when we went down to get our own. I refused one day because the horses were very big (16hh +) and could be very bad mannered and I didn't want to get injured or be liable if the horse got free from me and was injured. The YO then yelled at me about how I have to pull my weight around the yard. Luckily I have now moved to a much more professional yard.

Also if you did ask YO for livery she would more often than not say no because she was away eventing or just "busy" that day. So a lot of the time liveries were looking after other horses.
 
I would hate to be on a yard where no one does favours! Me and my best friend moved together on this yard I am on - whilst shes on holiday I do her horse, whilst im on holiday she does mine. Also if one of us is up before the other she brings in and vice versa. Also, my mum occasionally pops up whilst im at work and mucks out. YO doesnt batter an eyelid as she charges us in excess for DIY anyhow but we dont mind as we love the yard.
 
I think it is up to yard owners to set an appropriate fee for the livery they are offering; with the extras being exactly that, a bonus on top of their basic wage, rather than something they have to rely on. I appreciate most YO are nt millionaires and they do it for the love for a big extent, but personally I don't think it is a nice environment where we cant help each other out a little bit; yards should be communities where we work together and I think YO should encourage this. If I was on DIY I would be unlikely to consider a yard that would nt allow favours. (E.g Morning partner does both horses turning & out rug changes in morning, and their own mucking out, evening person does both bring in rug changes and their own mucking out)

Whilst I can understand not wanting external people on the yard for mucking out etc; the idea of not being allowed to bring in an external instructor is ridiculous.
 
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