YOs, what are your thoughts on liveries doing favours for each o

[case895]

As a YO, if I were offering flexible livery and livery A did a favour for B, I would live with it. If A was charging B and undercutting me, I would not be happy.

 

[burtie]

I'm on assisted DIY and whilst we are not allowed to hire in outside grooms, which is totally understandable, there is no objections to other liveries helping each other out. TBH it tends to only happen between field mates, I regularly bring my friends horse in so that mine is not left out alone and vice versa. I can't see how any yard can object to this and insist on you paying for them to do it?

 

[Blurr]

YO doesnt batter an eyelid as she charges us in excess for DIY anyhow but we dont mind as we love the yard.

How much is paying 'excess' for DIY livery?

 

[wiglet]

My yard is totally DIY. No services are offered... if you're really pushed, the YO will let her groom TO, muck out or bring in for a cost. Usually everyone just does favours for each other - there is no problem with this on my yard.

That said, if I was on a yard that offered (and expected you to use) services, I would have no problem with paying.

 

[noodle_]

Im on a pure DIY yard - there is someone who charges for services [who i pay]

yard owners are fully aware and quite happy for this to go ahead.

personally, i dont care who gets my money as we don't do favours - at all... i pay then everyone knows where they stand...

 

[Leg_end]

Think it totally depends on the set up of the yard and what the 'rules' are. Whenever I've been DIY I've done favours for others and vica versa. I've been on a yard that offered services but was a huge yard and the horses were never done to a particularly good standard - which was fine for a one off but if I was going away I used to get a freelance groom or my MiL instead - the yard was happy for this to happen.

However, if you're on a part/full yard then TBH your horse is being done all the time anyway so I don't see why you would need to add anything on. If it's not then I agree that general care services should be done by the yard staff and charged for.

However I would consider a few things outside of this. If I wanted my horse schooled/jumped I'd be peeved if they had an issue with someone else coming in to do it. It's no different to allowing external instructors in IMO but I know plenty of yards don't like that either! Clipping is another one, I knew a YO who wouldn't even let her liveries clip their own horses!!

I guess the key is that you need to be clear when you have liveries in as to what is included in the care and what is acceptable in terms of using the yard for additional care/services.

 

[criso]

I think where a yard offers services then you need to think about the practicalities of offering these.

In the examples I mentioned before, ym was not paid a wage but was dependent on services. In addition to providing services, they were also expected to carry out day to day running of the yard. If they don't make enough from services then it's not viable for them to be there and there is no one there to manage.
The other thing that happens is that if people do favours some of the time and take services other times there is a huge variation in workload. Virtually nothing one weekend and suddenly everyone wants turnouts or full cover the next. Keeping services through they yards make it easier to predict what is needed and making sure there are adequate people working there.

Not saying it's right and I see the point of view of pure diys who want to manage things among themselves.

 

[9tails]

I'm on a DIY yard and we do favours for each other, there are no services. If it became the case that the yard was services from staff most of the yard would skedaddle; I couldn't allow the yard manager to handle my horse, he may be "horsey" but not in the way I like.

By the same token, our yard has a rule that we only buy hay from them. The hay they're supplying is so awful that no horses are eating it so we've resorted to buying haylage. Being tied in to something is a real pain in the butt.

 

[thatsmygirl]

The yard I'm on now is a small 16 box yard that 3 of us share and no yo as such. He's a old man who just wants it to be used so we pay minimal amount and do as we please. Each have our own field and use the spare stables for storage and have to buy our own feed and bedding in etc. it works well and we back each other up plus is anybody asks for a stable he asks us what we think of her, if we don't like her he say no, simples!
We have all been there 10 years plus and have no intentions of moving its a simple stright forward hassle free yard. The livery yards in our area are so bitchy and full of know it alls I just couldn't entertain it

 

[PStarfish]

I'm on assisted DIY and the staff working get paid for the jobs they do rather than a set wage. So I can understand the YM's rule of 'no favours'. If there were only say, 3 turn outs to do at £1.80 a time, you are not going to get staff who want to cover these days as it's not worth the fuel money. And then what if you need help on this day but none of your friends are able to help you out? So it's all or nothing really. On the odd occasion someone is stuck, a favour may be done and it's fine. But in general, yard services are used. This also avoids anyone being taken advantage of, some people paying for services and others not and any arguments that could arise out of this. You can use whichever farrier/hay supplier/outside services & supplies you wish including instructors (though most use YM as she's fab) it's just the day to day services that are yard only.

 

[glamourpuss]

I was once on a yard where if you had a lesson with an instructor, the instructor had to pay a £5 fee for using the facilities, even though they were teaching someone in the yard who was already paying for the school in their livery fee & often they had to share the arena.
This became beyond ridiculous when 1 livery gave another a lesson & still had to pay the £5.
No one minds paying a fair charge for something but this one seemed really unfair ( we tried to talk to the YO but he kept twisting the concept of clinics where you hire the facility to justify it).
I ended up just going to my instructors yard - her surface was much better anyway. But I do know others just got a bit sly & creative to get out of the charge

 

[Handsome Jack]

I don't think its unusual to expect visiting instructors to pay a drop-in/usage fee, after all they are there making money out of the YO facility, and often when there is a lesson happening the school is often booked-up and others cannot ride...from what I know many yards find it hard to make ends meet and for freelance instructors to be able to turn up and teach is super, having to pay extra for that does not seem a huge hardship..

 

[twiggy2]

I had a lesson today, my instructor came to the yard that I keep my horse at and pay for using the facilities,why should an instructor pay for me to be able to use the facilities that I have already paid for?

 

[Ali27]

I am yard manager on a voluntary basis as I love my yard owners and yard! I won't charge for any services as I work fulltime so I can't be bothered with tax returns etc. I'm more than happy to do favours for people however I have stopped doing favours for people who don't return the favour or give me the odd bottle of wine. There is someone on our yard who can be paid for services however most people prefer to buddy up with someone and help each other out.

 

[Handsome Jack]

I had a lesson today, my instructor came to the yard that I keep my horse at and pay for using the facilities,why should an instructor pay for me to be able to use the facilities that I have already paid for?

I think I explained that in my OP? they are making money out of the facilities, and often the school is booked for a lesson so limiting other peoples ability to ride...

 

[twiggy2]

I think I explained that in my OP? they are making money out of the facilities, and often the school is booked for a lesson so limiting other peoples ability to ride...

the mutual client of the yard and the instructor has already paid for the use of the facilities though

 

[MillionDollar]

I ran my yard as a DIY, Assisted DIY and Part livery yard for nearly 6 years (until realising renting it out to pros is far better ) and I never minded when liveries helped each other out. I also didn't mind 'outside' help coming in as long as I was informed. Really didn't bother me one bit.

 

[laura_nash]

I have been on an assisted livery yard where favours weren't allowed. It wasn't strictly enforced though, we often helped each other out with things like sticking a rug on in the late evening etc, and YO did a lot of free stuff too (sticking in a haynet that was left prepared etc.). It was more doing things free that were charged (e.g. a full muck out). Even then we did actually do that for each other, e.g. before an event, so I guess it was more if it was on a regular and organised basis. It only really came up once, when too long-term friends moved onto yard who had always helped each other out a lot, YO had to be upfront with them before they came that she wouldn't allow them to continue as they had been.

 

[amandaco2]

I let mine help each other as I offered diy

 

[glamourpuss]

I think I explained that in my OP? they are making money out of the facilities, and often the school is booked for a lesson so limiting other peoples ability to ride...

But the instructor is hardly likely to swallow the hire cost in their fee are they? More likely they will add the cost onto the lesson price therefore the client is paying twice for the school.
Personally (& all the others on that yard) felt that this was a unfair charge. A freelance instructor costs themselves taking into account their travel expenses, insurance etc if their client has already paid for the school hire as part of their livery then why should it be paid for again? What's the difference between a livery riding their horse in the arena & a livery riding their horse in the arena under the supervision of a 3rd party (the instructor) the 2nd scenario hasn't cost the YO more money so why should they seek more income from it?

 

[milo'n'molly]

See, I don't get this. Many moons ago I was on a yard that offered full part and DIY livery and it wasn't a problem for people to do each other's horses as ling as it was properly organised. Since then I have been on a small private yard with my brother and we always took it in turn looking after each other's horse. I can't imagine not being able to do that.
I can understand YO getting peeved if someone is doing jobs for liveries and charging but undercutting the yard