YOs, would you call vet out for a livery without owner's permiss

Thankyou for all your replies, especially the ones telling me to grow a pair!! Pixie i also have all those things in my contract and i choose liveries carefully so have never had a problem till this one and only allowed her on because she was buying the pony in question. As for vets discussing the case with me they are doing so because i have explained that they are inexperienced , that it is a welfare issue and that there have been ongoing issues where i have advised veterinary attention and had to check that they had followed instructions. Bonnie all i want to achieve is a proper diagnosis of what is wrong with the pony. Since they have had her she has been foot sore/lame and had lami several times which started when they left her feet 6 months without a trim. She is walking on her heels and though better on the soft she has a very funny gait on hard ground as though she cannot bend her knee. I think there is something more going on with her possibly being combined with arthritis in her front legs but i'm not a vet and just need to know so i can make sure she gets the right care. After reading all the replies i had a word with livery and also vets again. She is on their list to courtesy call due to previous lami and they are going to reccomend a visit. Also the farrier who shod her is coming on friday for another pony so she is going to ask him to put the testers on but apparantly he said there was no lami there when he shod her. SO i hope that i will have a diagnosis by end of the week and if she does not want to follow it i will tell her to leave.
 
booandellie said:
Thankyou for all your replies, especially the ones telling me to grow a pair!! Pixie i also have all those things in my contract and i choose liveries carefully so have never had a problem till this one and only allowed her on because she was buying the pony in question. As for vets discussing the case with me they are doing so because i have explained that they are inexperienced , that it is a welfare issue and that there have been ongoing issues where i have advised veterinary attention and had to check that they had followed instructions. Bonnie all i want to achieve is a proper diagnosis of what is wrong with the pony. Since they have had her she has been foot sore/lame and had lami several times which started when they left her feet 6 months without a trim. She is walking on her heels and though better on the soft she has a very funny gait on hard ground as though she cannot bend her knee. I think there is something more going on with her possibly being combined with arthritis in her front legs but i'm not a vet and just need to know so i can make sure she gets the right care. After reading all the replies i had a word with livery and also vets again. She is on their list to courtesy call due to previous lami and they are going to reccomend a visit. Also the farrier who shod her is coming on friday for another pony so she is going to ask him to put the testers on but apparantly he said there was no lami there when he shod her. SO i hope that i will have a diagnosis by end of the week and if she does not want to follow it i will tell her to leave.
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Telling her to leave is fine, but it won't help the pony, so if you do tell her to leave, I would advise you report her to one of the welfare authorities before they move the pony so that you know that she will be monitored. I totally get you not wanting them on the yard if they won't listen as, just as Ester has said, you do have a duty of care the animals at your livery and that is implied, so doesn't have to be in a written contract, so you need to protect yourself. At the same time though, I would hope that you wouldn't let the pony leave and suffer the same negligence somewhere else. Please, whatever you decide to do, make sure it includes actually reporting the ponies owners!
 
Legally, I think you are on difficult ground here, as the vets are employed/engaged by the owner, not by you. I'm not even sure at you'd be able to get your own different vet to look at the pony in an emergency without having at least attempted to call the owner.
I'd suggest having the BHS welfare officer call by to talk about summer weight control, then push them towards the pony's owner.
And you could call the BHS legal helpline for advice regarding calling a vet, if you're a Gold member.
The simplest way would be to tell the owner that you are so worried about the pony's welfare, that you would like them to call the vet out (and for you to be present at the consultation to reassure yourself) or you may be forced to give them notice.
Awkward situation - good luck with it.
S :)
 
I would be telling them there is no turnout for the pony until a vet has been and had a look at him and made a diagnosis, and vets instructions followed. And I would be giving them 24 hours to do this, or else you shall be reporting them. As a YO you do have a duty of care, and the pony sounds in pain
 
Just an update after all the advice , the vet gave the livery a 'courtesy call' to see how pony was doing and came out yesterday. The pony isn't showing signs of full blown lami but is obviously lame but with no heat or swelling except slight warmth round the coronet band. Vet is slightly mistified but is coming back on monday to test for cushings and then foot xrays so at least now some sort of diagnosis is under way and the livery realises her pony isn't just foot sore.Thanks again everyone
 
Good news, it does sound as though she is inexperienced rather than deliberately neglectful.

Hopefully she will now talk to you if she has concerns and this will make the other liveries back off.
 
It is a tough one and I'd be on your side in this OP.

I was on a yard a few years back where the YO literally knew nothing about horses even though she'd had them all her life. She'd been lucky enough to never to deal with ill health. A friend of hers decided she wanted a pony so bought one. The friend had a lot of money but zero experience and this beautiful Palomino show pony turned up. Literally within a week the pony went down with lami and I mean crippled. I found it it in agony in the field and called the YO and friend and asked them to call the vet. YO said the pony was fine and didn't need the vet, just some bute. Anyway, the long and short of it was that that pony suffered for days at the hands of incompetent people. The pony was given bute (which I later discovered was stolen from me!) and kept in a stable. In the end I found out where the pony had come from and messaged the owners discreetly on Facebook. They were obviously horrified and came straight over with their own vet and bought the pony back there and then. The friend decided horses weren't from her and I guess the YO is still clueless. I left that yard pretty sharpish after that!
I really hope the pony recovered.
 
booandellie said:
Ordinarily this is something i would never do and if there was an issue i would discuss it with my livery and they would get the vet themselves _ BUT, this livery is inexperienced, first pony for kids blah blah that i inherited when pony was sold on. From the start there have been problems with caring for the pony properly and i am constantly advising ( often ignored) and often checking to make sure everything is done for the pony however they keep neglecting her feet despite me reminding them she is overdue, this has resulted in repeated attacks of lami and the poor pony has now been lame for 2 weeks after they shod her. Once again i asked them to contact the vet, keep her in etc to which she replied that the vet said she was just foot sore from new shoes, no danylon needed and to turn out during the day instead of night. This sounded odd so i spoke to vet who said she didn't say the pony had an unusual gait or was lame and that they had certainly not advised swapping turnout. I feel that the livery is playing me to get her pony out during the day, and crucially ignoring the pony's suffering. I am now considering having the vet out at my own expense and giving them the report and hope they action the advice! Am i out of order? Would you do the same in my shoes? Thanks for reading and any opinions gratefully recieved!
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We have this clause in our contract

In case of emergency, if the owner cannot be contacted the owners vet will be contacted, or if unavailable, then the yard vet will be called to treat the horse and the owner will be responsible for the payment.
 
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