YO's & YM's : duty of care

Fuzznugget

Fuzznugget

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Just out of interest, what is the duty of care of a yard manager or yard owner in regards to horses being boarded on their premises on a DIY basis, where the owner of the horse does not come up to feed/water it, and does not have anything set up to have the horse fed/watered.
 
Basically, I think I'm correct in saying that the YM/YO has the responsibility for "duty of care" for equines in their keeping, it matters not whether they're designated "DIY" or not, because if there is a welfare issue then the RSPCA don't give a stuff who the owner is basically, its the YO where the horse is actually kept who's held responsible.

I had a livery once and this happened: pony was in the stable and not fed or watered for a night and a day, and I was unable to contact the owner, who'd flown off on some family crisis in Scotland (we're in Devon) without telling me. So I had to do it - using my own feed and hay to do so. Then 13 year old daughter and friend came up to "ride" said pony in the afternoon, who wasn't exactly in receptive mode because it had been shut in the stable for so long, and didn't appreciate being told that I wasn't happy for her to take it out for a hack without an adult being around.

I'd be far more cagey now, and get it written into the livery contract that if owner is away and cannot see to horses then they MUST (1) inform the YO and (2) appoint someone to see to them on their behalf, OR ask YO and pay extra if on DIY.

Personally, if this is happening on a regular basis and there is a welfare issue developing then I'd send them up the road PDQ; it just ain't worth it.

I've got a super livery now who is a pleasure to have around and life is so very different!
 
Sorry for slight hijack but lets say YO has not performed their duty of care and put two horses at risk would you have a good enough case for a welfare organisation to come out?
 
In my contracts I state that horses must be checked at least once a day, everyday. And if I see that they are not then I will check them myself and add the charge to the bill. I will then immediately contact the owner and ask why the have not been to see their horse. If it continues to happen the charge I make increases each time by £1 and at the end of one month they are told in no incertain terms to leave.

Kokopelli if the YO is negligent then in effect the owners could have a legal case against them. I.e if the YO knew the field was a grass sickness field (and that had been proved beyond all reasonable doubt) and they continued to use it and another horse got ill then yes I would say that the YO was negligent. However duty of care is slightly different. It is providing for basic need, food, water, grazing.
 
Kokopelli said:
Sorry for slight hijack but lets say YO has not performed their duty of care and put two horses at risk would you have a good enough case for a welfare organisation to come out?
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As a person who has no particular interest in a horse [keeper or owner], you can contact the welfare authorities any time, it is up to them to proceed further if required.
 
Bosworth said:
Kokopelli if the YO is negligent then in effect the owners could have a legal case against them. I.e if the YO knew the field was a grass sickness field (and that had been proved beyond all reasonable doubt) and they continued to use it and another horse got ill then yes I would say that the YO was negligent. However duty of care is slightly different. It is providing for basic need, food, water, grazing.
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Thanks for your reply. I see what you mean about it not being duty of care, I really would love to get this sorted before another horse got ill though.

MrsD123 said:
As a person who has no particular interest in a horse [keeper or owner], you can contact the welfare authorities any time, it is up to them to proceed further if required.
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Will try giving welfare organisations another ring today, thanks. :)

Sorry again OP for slight hijack of your thread.
 
i was on a yard a few years ago where only 2 out of 16 owners came to check on their horses every day over summer, the others would turn up once in a blue moon to check on them, the farmer/owner said that if they want to pay him money for having a horse kept there then that's fine but they may as well sell the horse to someone who cares and just pay him to come and see his horse when they wanted the horsey fix.

it used to pee me off because i was up there everyday for a number of hours. come winter the other owners would complain that the horse was bolshy or something and then moan that they lost too much time mucking out so would try and get others to do their horses a few times a week which meant horses were left in dirty stables with no hay or water.
the farmer paid me and my OH to clear the stables out once a week and then billed all the owners.
 
Negligence is a hard case to prove, I am sure if you talk to the legal people on here they will say tort law is nowhere near as clear cut as contract law. I only remember basic bits from my business degree. Welfare people will probably have no interest Kokopelli as they never really do much on the preventative side which is wrong. You may be able to get some interest under the animal welfare act - but that is DEFRA who are responsible for the implementation of the animal welfare act, but they are unlikely to want to get involved with a couple of small cases, the only way you will get something done for definite is by proving the yard owner negligent in court. In order to do that you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they know for a fact that the field was the cause. Scientific proof from experts. The owners of the horse need to be prepared for a long hard expensive battle. can you prove beyond any doubt that there was a known problem with the field. And I don;t mean rumours, hearsay etc. The easier way may be to see if the yard has a Care and Control insurance policy. That is to ensure the horses are not damaged or injured while in the care of the yard.
 
Bosworth said:
Negligence is a hard case to prove, I am sure if you talk to the legal people on here they will say tort law is nowhere near as clear cut as contract law. I only remember basic bits from my business degree. Welfare people will probably have no interest Kokopelli as they never really do much on the preventative side which is wrong. You may be able to get some interest under the animal welfare act - but that is DEFRA who are responsible for the implementation of the animal welfare act, but they are unlikely to want to get involved with a couple of small cases, the only way you will get something done for definite is by proving the yard owner negligent in court. In order to do that you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they know for a fact that the field was the cause. Scientific proof from experts. The owners of the horse need to be prepared for a long hard expensive battle. can you prove beyond any doubt that there was a known problem with the field. And I don;t mean rumours, hearsay etc. The easier way may be to see if the yard has a Care and Control insurance policy. That is to ensure the horses are not damaged or injured while in the care of the yard.
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We can prove it was the field no doubt, two horses died in there and one got ill. This is backed up by our vet. We were considering going to court about it all, will go speak to a solicitor and see where we stand. Thank you very much for you help.
 
it will require scientific proof, not just the vet agreeing to it. Grass sickness is very newly diagnosed problem. it may be worth going to the experts on grass sickness and seeing what they advise. there are all sorts of things that are thought to cause it from harrowing to sweeping to minerals and chemicals. The grass sickness experts will be able to help you decide what to do. Also if you have your horse insured you will have a legal helpline included in that insurance which you can use. Even if you haven;t got that then household insurance has a free legal helpline which you can use. You may be able to use your horse insurance policy to fund a legal case but I would talk to your insurance legal line andthe grass sickness people first.
 
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