You just can't trust some professionals

[Ouch05]

Warning long post. Totally gutted today. Work meant yard move back in may and that meant the hunt for good repeatable farrier, saddle, vet and physio.

Got three out of four right. Given the name for sports physio had her out twice since I moved in may. They get six weekly treatments and treated just before move. No not high competition horses just low level dressage fun but one is quite a tense sensitive sole.

He has always had issue and my last lady was brilliant kept on top of things so we bobbed along nicely.

A difficult year I went way for a few months with work COVID etc meant not seen to properly as I would like then a forced move.

Had a lady recommend to me in the new area. First treatment was ok but I was not overly taken. Second six weeks later she stated oh better than last time. Which I knew was not true he was feeling way off. Something was going on. I cancelled the third and now having been in the area longer received a recommendation.

She came today. She was brilliant I left in tears my boy is a mess more than I thought. Rehabilitation for six to eight weeks in hand. I would do it for a year if I thought it would help.

I'm heart broken. I've done everything right for ten years he has everything but I still failed him. Devastated. My gorgeous boy could have dumped me but know he kept trying. Worse that I knew in my gut something was not quite right but she said he was fine.

No point to post sorry

 

[Uliy]

It’s a hard lesson to learn! I used a useless physio and a useless saddler, both now resolved. My poor girl had put up with so much in the interim, but how are we to know! The best you can do is get a second opinion when you realise something isn’t right, which is what you’ve done. Hopefully all will resolve soon!

 

[paddi22]

that seems a massive about of constant treatment? we get rescues in bits in and it's usually three physio treatments and they are done for a good period, unless it's a more serious issue. I wonder if the physio is just easing the symptoms instead of tackling the underlying issues?

 

[AmyMay]

Clearly you’ll have a vet involved in a formal diagnosis and treatment, but I’m at a loss to understand what the previous person had done that was so wrong. Are both professionals registered?

 

[paddi22]

I think all the physios have been unprofessional in not recommending vet analysis?. that isn't natural for a horse to suddenly just have to do inhand and for you not to know why? did they give any explanation? I do tons of inland with various horses, but you are always told exactly the reason they need it, not just vague descriptions like 'tight' or 'sensitive'. did the physio give any more info? I've a yard her with kissing spine, SI, sciatica horses being rehabbed, but you have a solid diagnosis for them all. did physio give more info at all?

 

[Ouch05]

Clearly you’ll have a vet involved in a formal diagnosis and treatment, but I’m at a loss to understand what the previous person had done that was so wrong. Are both professionals registered?

We discussed vet involvement and felt at this time correct rehabilitation for six to eight weeks then re access.

The previous person after watching and talking to my old physio was clearly more a sport pyhsio then a physio as said it was my mistake.

 

[paddi22]

but what are they saying it is? what are you rehabbing to fix? sorry to be pushing that, but you just see so many people spend an absolute fortune on physios, when all along the horse needs xrays or a lameness workup. there is something causing your horses issues, and it sounds like the physios are only reliving the pain a bit and then it comes back? the fear is that you will end up going on like this for years while it could have been fixed with KS injections or dealing with PSSM

 

[Ouch05]

I think all the physios have been unprofessional in not recommending vet analysis?. that isn't natural for a horse to suddenly just have to do inhand and for you not to know why? did they give any explanation? I do tons of inland with various horses, but you are always told exactly the reason they need it, not just vague descriptions like 'tight' or 'sensitive'. did the physio give any more info? I've a yard her with kissing spine, SI, sciatica horses being rehabbed, but you have a solid diagnosis for them all. did physio give more info at all?

Yes the one one today gave a full debrief written assessment explained everything to me and why inhand will help. Ridden is also to do with the school I have at the yard which I'm not willing to discuss here but will answer pm

 

[paddi22]

you're grand, I don't need to know, I have never seen the horse and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone. I just think it is SO odd for a horse to need that much physio? we rehab horses all the time and we would never treat them that often.

 

[Goldenstar]

No physio should be recommending that sort of rehab without input from a vet .
I would be very wary indeed .
Get the report the physio did forwarded to your vet at once .

 

[Goldenstar]

Just wanted to add six week physio is standard here for horses in work .

 

[AmyMay]

No physio should be recommending that sort of rehab without input from a vet .
I would be very wary indeed .
Get the report the physio did forwarded to your vet at once .

Exactly.

 

[Ouch05]

Ok the point of the post is I used a recommendation physio who said he was fine. I've now used a different one and the results are hugely different the take away is my boy is now being treated where as before i could is carried on riding thinking he was ok.

Please no more comments on vets pssm.ks etc I am fully aware and after rehad and not getting on him we will reassess if no change he will have a full work up he is insured and I have owned him for ten years he will receive what ever he needs and if that is retirement or low level work, x-rays mri.injections to make him comfortable so be it.

 

[paddi22]

I don't think anyone is questioning your love or care of the horse, you are obviously a really caring owner who adores and wants the best for their horse. , but you have been doing the same thing for years now, and spending an absolute fortune on physios, and keep going back to square one. A physio will just say 'the back is tight, needs more muscle, slightly off here or there, but I fixed that'....but there is something causing that, and to find that you need a vet to properly pinpoint it. I can guarantee exactly what will happen, your horses will do inhand for weeks, build muscle, you'll ride and he'll feel good.. and then 6 or 8 weeks or so later he'll feel a bit off and you'll be ringing physio again. because thats what's been happening for years by the sounds of it. healthy horses don't suddenly need inhand, your horse has an underlying physical issue causing it. I'm not saying it to be harsh, I'm speaking from hard learned experience and my own horse from years ago who would have been much more comfortable if I'd gone to vets instead of constant physios. and I love my physios! they do great work. but they need to be vet led if it's a reoccurring problem.

 

[Ouch05]

No physio should be recommending that sort of rehab without input from a vet .
I would be very wary indeed .
Get the report the physio did forwarded to your vet at once .

Hey wait a minute she recommended pole work in hand to build his top line. As stated before there is also issues with the school and that fact he does not hack well meant in hand was the beat option for all

 

[Ouch05]

I don't think anyone is questioning your love of care of the horse, you are obviously a really caring owner who adores and wants the best for their horse. , but you have been doing the same thing for years now, and spending an absolute fortune on physios, and keep going back to square one. A physio will just say 'the back is tight, needs more muscle, slightly off here or there, but I fixed that'....but there is something causing that, and to find that you need a vet to properly pinpoint it. I can guarantee exactly what will happen, your horses will do inhand for weeks, build muscle, you'll ride and he'll feel good.. and then 6 or 8 weeks or so later he'll feel a bit off and you'll be ringing physio again. because thats what's been happening for years by the sounds of it. healthy horses don't suddenly need inhand, your horse has an underlying physical issue causing it. I'm not saying it to be harsh, I'm speaking from hard learned experience and my own horse from years ago who would have been much more comfortable if I'd gone to vets instead of constant physios. and I love my physios! they do great work. but they need to be vet led if it's a reoccurring problem.

I get the the physio Every.six weeks because I can not because he needs it. I like them to be happy. It is something I have done since o have owned horses. You don't need to compete at a high level to justify have a physio

Sorry I didn't realise it was only getting someone out when there was a problem. They get regular treatment because I like it.

I never once said I get physio out for issues. This is the first time in ten years that I knew he was not right and I knew she had it wrong.

 

[AmyMay]

He has always had issue and my last lady was brilliant kept on top of things so we bobbed along nicely.

I never once said I get physio out for issues. This is the first time in ten years that I knew he was not right and I knew she had it wrong.

I’m confused ??‍

 

[paddi22]

I obviously got the wrong end of the stick too. I had picked up on " he was feeling way off. Something was going on'.
buy physios don't leave horses 'in a mess'. if your horse is in a mess at any stage from just doing low level fun dressage, then there is something up. I hope you enjoy there inhand work though, its brilliant for horses and there's so many good resources online.

 

[Goldenstar]

Why is his top line lacking ?
Why is this the fault of the other physio ?
Theres no way I would embark on a rehab programme without knowing why the horse had the issue and no physio can tell you that .

 

[Ouch05]

I’m confused ??‍

Ok my bad not issue as such just a tb that holds himself. What I meant was when has an abscess he tense himself she helps

 

[Ouch05]

I obviously got the wrong end of the stick too. I had picked up on " he was feeling way off. Something was going on'.
buy physios don't leave horses 'in a mess'. if your horse is in a mess at any stage from just doing low level fun dressage, then there is something up. I hope you enjoy there inhand work though, its brilliant for horses and there's so many good resources online.

I never said she left him in a mess.
I said I was not happy.

 

[Ouch05]

Why is his top line lacking ?
Why is this the fault of the other physio ?
Theres no way I would embark on a rehab programme without knowing why the horse had the issue and no physio can tell you that .

This is a longer story and happy to tell in a pm but not on a public forum.
I never blamed the physio for that.

 

[paddi22]

what I meant was even with all the previous physio treatment, including from your good physio, he shouldn't be a mess..
is he an exracer?

 

[Ouch05]

what I meant was even with all the previous physio treatment, including from your good physio, he shouldn't be a mess..
is he an exracer?

Yes he is. There is a story from the last year that not willing to post.

I guess I should not have used the words a mess. He is not lame but i hate seeing him sore at all I try and do everything I can for him and just feel I failed.

I can't ride him where I currently am so inhand was recommended.

 

[TPO]

I get where you are coming from @Ouch05

Long story short my mum bought a horse from the yard I liveried on and the previous owner was remaining on the yard with another horse.

Mum knew he was lame when she bought him (owners didn't notice) and wanted me to go over him. I've done different therapy training for horses. I gave him a quick going over and found a tonne of issues but I didn't want involved in his rehab because mum would repeat what I said to old owner and there would end up an atmosphere. So she got a highly recommended ACAPT physio to him who found a handful of issues and worked on them.

The vet was involved in so much as mum explained horse was a crock and rehab project. Trotted horse up for vet and think he was 3/5 lame. Proceeded with physio with vet approval.

Everyone raves about this physio and they have a national presence doing other equestrian type stuff.

Had about three very expensive sessions with her and really no difference in the horse so were about to go back to the vet. At this time an old acquaintance/friend of a friend qualified as a veterinary physio so I suggested giving her a go.

She found all the issues that I had and a few more. She wrote out a more detailed rehab plan and initially I think she came either weekly or fortnightly but that soon progressed to 6wks, then 8wks then 12. Her sessions made a big difference and he was soon back under saddle.

Mum had a French trainer who did a lot of classical and straightness training so that every session was like pilates/yoga for the horse and nearly all in walk.

Trotted him back up for the vet next vaccination time and at a push the vet said 1/5 but that was mechanical because of scar tissue over a fetlock.

So whilst the first acapt physio didn't make the mess they didn't help with the cleaning up of it. Nor did any of their sessions improve things for the horse and when vet physio (who's qualifications and training are often dismissed and looked down on on this forum) had the initial consultation his list of issues and sore points were upsetting. This is because the "best" had been tried and fallen short.

Another long story is wr had an Arab mare that would crouch like something off star wars when being mounted. She was seen by a vet, went into vet hospital for a stay and thorough work up including xrays, had master saddler out to make made to measure saddle, was seen by acapt physio and no one ever got to the bottom of it and vet diagnosis was "just" cold backed.

A yard friend was doing EBW training and needed guinea pigs for her and a course mate. Her course mate was a McTimoney-Corley practitioner. She took one look at the horse and said that the pelvis was out of alignment. When I put my fingers on the point of the hips it was THE most obvious thing ever. How all these other professionals had missed it was beyond me.

it tied in with an accident thr mare had before we got her. She spooked out hacking getting "chased" by a lorry and fell when jumping a 5 bar gate. She was turned away to recover, with no vet or physio appointments, and we bought her more or less from the field. She had been picked up a little and she was seen by a vet after purchase who said she was fine and to crack on. Obviously vet back out when Star wars behaviour started the hospital etc

Anyway McT-C lady gave a 12wk rehab programme for in hand and pole work and visited regularly for McTimoney-Corley and spoets massage. Horse straightened and strengthened and didn't have any issues again.

So basically Ouch I think I understand where you are coming from!

Can't do right for doing wrong sometimes

 

[Ouch05]

I get where you are coming from @Ouch05

Long story short my mum bought a horse from the yard I liveried on and the previous owner was remaining on the yard with another horse.

Mum knew he was lame when she bought him (owners didn't notice) and wanted me to go over him. I've done different therapy training for horses. I gave him a quick going over and found a tonne of issues but I didn't want involved in his rehab because mum would repeat what I said to old owner and there would end up an atmosphere. So she got a highly recommended ACAPT physio to him who found a handful of issues and worked on them.

The vet was involved in so much as mum explained horse was a crock and rehab project. Trotted horse up for vet and think he was 3/5 lame. Proceeded with physio with vet approval.

Everyone raves about this physio and they have a national presence doing other equestrian type stuff.

Had about three very expensive sessions with her and really no difference in the horse so were about to go back to the vet. At this time an old acquaintance/friend of a friend qualified as a veterinary physio so I suggested giving her a go.

She found all the issues that I had and a few more. She wrote out a more detailed rehab plan and initially I think she came either weekly or fortnightly but that soon progressed to 6wks, then 8wks then 12. Her sessions made a big difference and he was soon back under saddle.

Mum had a French trainer who did a lot of classical and straightness training so that every session was like pilates/yoga for the horse and nearly all in walk.

Trotted him back up for the vet next vaccination time and at a push the vet said 1/5 but that was mechanical because of scar tissue over a fetlock.

So whilst the first acapt physio didn't make the mess they didn't help with the cleaning up of it. Nor did any of their sessions improve things for the horse and when vet physio (who's qualifications and training are often dismissed and looked down on on this forum) had the initial consultation his list of issues and sore points were upsetting. This is because the "best" had been tried and fallen short.

Another long story is wr had an Arab mare that would crouch like something off star wars when being mounted. She was seen by a vet, went into vet hospital for a stay and thorough work up including xrays, had master saddler out to make made to measure saddle, was seen by acapt physio and no one ever got to the bottom of it and vet diagnosis was "just" cold backed.

A yard friend was doing EBW training and needed guinea pigs for her and a course mate. Her course mate was a McTimoney-Corley practitioner. She took one look at the horse and said that the pelvis was out of alignment. When I put my fingers on the point of the hips it was THE most obvious thing ever. How all these other professionals had missed it was beyond me.

it tied in with an accident thr mare had before we got her. She spooked out hacking getting "chased" by a lorry and fell when jumping a 5 bar gate. She was turned away to recover, with no vet or physio appointments, and we bought her more or less from the field. She had been picked up a little and she was seen by a vet after purchase who said she was fine and to crack on. Obviously vet back out when Star wars behaviour started the hospital etc

Anyway McT-C lady gave a 12wk rehab programme for in hand and pole work and visited regularly for McTimoney-Corley and spoets massage. Horse straightened and strengthened and didn't have any issues again.

So basically Ouch I think I understand where you are coming from!

Can't do right for doing wrong sometimes

Thank you. I'm just human trying my best for my best friend

 

[paddi22]

is there a particular reason you won't go to a vet? and I mean a proper equine vet. not a local practice who think once they trot a circle they are fine*


* I KNOW there are some good small vets with great horse people , but there are also some disasters! .I'm just speaking from my experience with my first exracer where a local vet kept saying he was fine and sound and nothing wrong, but equine hospital immediately diagnosed KS and SI.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. I'm just human trying my best for my best friend

It sounds to me as if you and your horse were let down by the original physio, tbh.

 

[Ouch05]

is there a particular reason you won't go to a vet? and I mean a proper equine vet. not a local practice who think once they trot a circle they are fine*


* I KNOW there are some good small vets with great horse people , but there are also some disasters! .I'm just speaking from my experience with my first exracer where a local vet kept saying he was fine and sound and nothing wrong, but equine hospital immediately diagnosed KS and SI.

Absolutely not. I trust my equine vet. But after seeing a horse that was 1/10 lame receive hock injections when no X rays where taken. I think they are quick to inject. I honestly think vets looks to bones before muscle issues.

I will follow the physio advice after six weeks see how he is if no better I will get the vet. He is not being ridden no harm is being caused no further stress on him.

I don't see how what I am doing is causing him any further issues. I'm happy to pm anyone with his last year history but a public forum is not the place. Plus the reasons why ridden work is not advised.