You need a bit to do dressage - discuss

[tazzle]

I don't think debating which is better - bit or bitless is the point.

Any equipment used on a horse can be used sypathetically or harshly depending on the hands behind them.

The point is that BD is not giving horse owners the choice on what to use and that (IMO) is wrong.

I agree definately .... I choose bitless but not because I think all bits are the work of the devil ... its because my horse prefers it.

 

[Jenni_]

That's amazing - that us saved in my favourites! What an absolutey amazing rider!

 

[Holly Hocks]

I don't think debating which is better - bit or bitless is the point.

Any equipment used on a horse can be used sypathetically or harshly depending on the hands behind them.

The point is that BD is not giving horse owners the choice on what to use and that (IMO) is wrong.

I totally agree with this. I have given up competing my gelding as he just doesn't get on as well with a bit as he does bitless. He is good with a bit, but far better without - he goes forward, carries himself beautifully and is light in the hand in the Dr Cooks. Even with a bit, riding without a contact, he tries to evade the bit itself, and I've tried a lot of different bits.
So BD is losing competitors and that's something that should concern them. I could understand if you had prelim riders wanting to ride in a double bridle, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about using something which is actually milder than any bit, so surely it can't be seen as getting an advantage.
Come on BD - we're in the modern day now - catch up!!!

 

[jeeve]

our local adult riding club, allows riders to ride without a bit

 

[Jennyharvey]

Out of interest if BD should allow the owners to choose do you think BD should allow anything on the head and any type of bit(s) on a bridle at all levels?

At the moment BD also don't allow many types of bits or bit combination, not just bitless and below Elementary level only certain snaffles are allowed so there is already a limited choice for horse owners.

I think that if bitless was to be allowed, i think it would be certain types of bridles, same as with bits. Such as the Dr Cooks, or a sidepull.
This would be better than having people ride in just anything, because as others have stated, there are bitless bridles that can be quite harsh and have leverage, such as hackamores.

 

[Ebbw]

What I find most strange about the apparent exclusion of bitless from competitive dressage is the fact that riding without a bit is nothing new.

Long before the formation of the FEI dressage masters were schooling horses in riding cavessons at least to the point in the training scale before collection. The curb bit was then introduced to assist with collection as its action is different to cavesson or snaffle and is better for encouraging the transfer of weight backwards without shortening the neck detrimentally (if used correctly).
There are some Portuguese trainers today who still use such methods if the horse warrants it(I daresay there are others but those are the ones I am aware of).

 

[Holly Hocks]

Well I e-mailed BD asking them to confirm whether a bitless bridle could be used as there is nothing on the website rules saying that one CAN'T be used - only the bits that can be used, and asking whether there were any plans for changes in the future to allow bitless. Here is their reply.
..........................................................................................................................

Thank you for your email. I can confirm that bitless bridles are NOT permitted under BD rules. We only refer to the use of Snaffle or double bridles, so there in no need to state that bitless bridles are not permitted.
A fundamental requirement in the education of the horse is the concept of submission and this includes the willing acceptance of the indications of the rider. This also means the acceptance by the horse of the bit in its mouth, just as much as the acceptance of the riders weight on its back.
Dressage training is all about producing the equine athlete, which means developing balance and suppleness. A major ‘key’ in this development is creating suppleness at the poll, both laterally and vertically, and this helps the musculature of the neck to help development of the paces. The most important muscles being the splemius and brachiocephalic and this allows the power to come through from behind. By a mellow acceptance of the bit in the horse’s mouth the rider is able to induce a relaxation of the lower jaw and from this to develop a more supple poll.
The bitless bridle acts by leverage on the neck of the horse, but not the jaw, so is not really regarded as the best way to produce submission that is the ‘hallmark’ of a dressage horse.
Thank you again for you email, however I’m afraid that this ruling is not going to change and should you wish to compete in dressage competitions then you will need to ride in a bridle with a bit.
Kind Regards
..........................................................................................................................
It would appear that they believe that suppleness and balance cannot be achieved without a bit, nor suppleness at the poll, and clearly have no idea how a bitless bridle works. Leverage on the neck?? Have they looked at the riders who ride with overbent horses with the "broken neck" look in a bit?
I always thought dressage involved a certain amount on self-carriage on the part of the horse - self carriage does not necessarily mean a bit in it's mouth as the video the OP posted has proved.
I'm not against riding in a bit in the slightest - I ride one of mine in a bit, but to imply that the same, or better results can't be achieved by riding bitless is ludicrous.

 

[tazzle]

A fundamental requirement in the education of the horse is the concept of submission and this includes the willing acceptance of the indications of the rider. This also means the acceptance by the horse of the bit in its mouth, just as much as the acceptance of the riders weight on its back

so the concept of a willing partnership is never, ever going to be even considered never mind accepted.

By a mellow acceptance of the bit in the horse’s mouth the rider is able to induce a relaxation of the lower jaw and from this to develop a more supple poll.

do they REALLY think the jaw cant relax without a bit in its mouth .....

there are none so blind as those that will not see

 

[tallyho!]

so the concept of a willing partnership is never, ever going to be even considered never mind accepted.



do they REALLY think the jaw cant relax without a bit in its mouth .....

there are none so blind as those that will not see

That is BD for you...

 

[JustMe22]

All of you should just move to South Africa Compete bitless to your heart's extent!

Though I don't think being able to compete bitless at affiliated dressage makes up for some of the country's shortcomings!

 

[competitiondiva]

numpty here... but what type of bitless bridle is that?? Hackamores imo are more severe than snaffles (yes it does depend on the hands they are in of course, but generally), they apply poll pressure and any bit applying poll pressure is illegal in dressage. Hence the hackamore not being allowed, I'm not aware of other bitless bridles other than hackamores (english and german) and the western ones that are probably more severe??! what others are there? and do they also use poll pressure?

btw, gorgeous horse and partnership, lovel to watch!

 

[tazzle]

I cant see for sure cos its black bridle on black hoss with very little close up of the head ( plus my central vision yuk) .... but I think that it might be a crossunder bridle because I think I can see rings where the reins would connect to the straps about 8" back from the jaw area.

if it is then any contact is spread over the nose, under jaw and side of face ... in order to get any poll pressure you have to have quite a significant pull on the reins

this is a crossunder bridle

http://www.bitlessbridle.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23_1&products_id=551

 

[Ebbw]

Thank you Hollyhocks for sharing that reply. Very interesting. I'm not an expert in equine physiology but BD's view sounds a little misguided.

I understand that a relaxed jaw allows a free poll, but surely there are many roads to Rome (and as many barriers blocking each road).

It is my belief that it is only the horse who can determine which is the most effective tool to encourage his 'submission' (to use the BD phrase, I prefer cooperation. Word play perhaps but submission makes me think of a state achieved through only domination).

For one horse a bit may be the best tool. He may accept it happily and mouth it confidently and that may allow us to access the poll.

For another bitless maybe better as he may be upset by tongue, palate or lip pressure and as a result evade the bit e.g. opening his mouth. Of course we could strap his mouth shut and give him fewer opportunities to object. Or we could see if another means of communication coveys the message more effectively.

The human analogy which springs is imposing a single language on a group of friends. Rather than letting them converse in the language they find most effective and the one they are most comfortable instead we'll force them to all speak French, for example, despite a few of them not being able to understand it fluently.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Thank you Hollyhocks for sharing that reply. Very interesting. I'm not an expert in equine physiology but BD's view sounds a little misguided.

I understand that a relaxed jaw allows a free poll, but surely there are many roads to Rome (and as many barriers blocking each road).

It is my belief that it is only the horse who can determine which is the most effective tool to encourage his 'submission' (to use the BD phrase, I prefer cooperation. Word play perhaps but submission makes me think of a state achieved through only domination).

For one horse a bit may be the best tool. He may accept it happily and mouth it confidently and that may allow us to access the poll.

For another bitless maybe better as he may be upset by tongue, palate or lip pressure and as a result evade the bit e.g. opening his mouth. Of course we could strap his mouth shut and give him fewer opportunities to object. Or we could see if another means of communication coveys the message more effectively.

The human analogy which springs is imposing a single language on a group of friends. Rather than letting them converse in the language they find most effective and the one they are most comfortable instead we'll force them to all speak French, for example, despite a few of them not being able to understand it fluently.

I agree wholeheartedly with this - nobody is saying that bitless is better for every horse - just that it suits some horses better. If it was a case that a bit was better for every horse, then maybe there should be no choice in the bits that are allowed and it should be a bog standard jointed snaffle for everyone.
I also don't like the phrase submission - to me, the word "submission" means to be forced by pressure. Makes me think of a dog cowering in a corner having been chastised.
The reply I received makes me realise how much dressage is becoming a forced, false, pressurised sport with no concern for horse welfare, and it's an organisation I no longer wish to have any connection with. Classical dressage - Enightened Equitation I'm with you all the way!
In fact I remember the first lesson I had with a classical instructor. I asked her if it mattered if I rode in a bitless bridle. Her reply was "I don't care if you want to ride in a headcollar and bareback - your horse will be so light in your hands, you'll barely need a bridle on"