You were ALL right :'( [pelham]

FlorenceBassey said:
Thats complete rubish, An english hackamore in the right hands can work wonders and is NO WHERE near the strength of a pelham, My Connemara X hates anything stronger than a cherry roller in his mouth, but goes best in a hackamore, if it was as you say 'as severe as a pelham, if not more' was true their is no way he would put up with it, Every sinlge bit has the ability to be harsh if its in the wrong hands!!

OP well done for realising you where wrong and admiting it, time to try a different instructor i feel.
Click to expand...

Woah wait a sec....that's what I was implying. I'm all for going back to a snaffle and startingover like what's been said from the start. I'm just saying until you can ride with confidence that you can ride her quietly with soft hands, swapping to a hackamore is not necessarily the best option and just because there is no bit in her mouth, doesn't make it any less severe if ridden hard-handedly in also.
 
FlorenceBassey said:
Thats complete rubish, An english hackamore in the right hands can work wonders and is NO WHERE near the strength of a pelham, My Connemara X hates anything stronger than a cherry roller in his mouth, but goes best in a hackamore, if it was as you say 'as severe as a pelham, if not more' was true their is no way he would put up with it, Every sinlge bit has the ability to be harsh if its in the wrong hands!!

OP well done for realising you where wrong and admiting it, time to try a different instructor i feel.
Click to expand...


I beg to differ. Just because a horse has a particular reaction to a certain bit doesn't mean it is or isn't harsh tbh.
Hackamores ARE strong. Yes, you can use them lightly - you can use a pelham lightly too! (In theory, with a straight bar pelham, almost as lightly as a straight bar snaffle!)
My Welsh Sec A used to be hard to stop in a pelham. He stopped wonderfully in the hackamore. My light mouthed TBx went equally as well in the hackamore. (a horse you could hunt in a happy mouth).
But you only have to look at the shanks on them and consider the leverage you have when holding the reins - they're pretty strong.
 
Ditto above. Maybe my wording wasn't great but due to previous posts....I wasn't going to write a huge essay of what to do and not do etc as it's been done till death.

I'm always used to German Hackamores personally, which can be extremely severe. Hackamores just are not something I'd recommend for a rider learning/horse reschooling combination.
 
FlorenceBassey said:
Thats complete rubish, An english hackamore in the right hands can work wonders and is NO WHERE near the strength of a pelham,
Click to expand...
Rubbish? ANY bit in the right hands can work wonders. The strength of the bit is all relative and depends entirely on the horse. My horse, for instance, has no steering in a hackamore and is severly over-braked. She WILL go just fine in a dutch gag though...
 
I don't know your issues with regards to bitting/rushing problems but although yes schooling will help a lot there is no reason to change your instructor if you get on with her/him. An additional instructor for flat work though may well help.

As far as bitting is concerned you need to just try different ones to find out what your horse is happiest with. Being a TB (is that right?) they do not have an awful lot of room in their mouths so you have to be careful with bits. I never quite get why people always advise to get your horse in a snaffle - this may not work. What i would look at is maybe the action of the bit, what pelham did you use - straight bar, nutcracker, one with a port? was it metal, happy mouth, vulcanite or rubber? there are sooo many different bits andquite frankly a 3 ring gag may not be the worse suggestion BUT try different types of mouthpieces, she may need a softer bit.

I actually had (well still have) a 14.2 extremely neurotic pony who rushed fences. i tried numerous bits but he was very sensitive - when I bought him he had a 3 ring gaga (god knows why) but he backed off so much. I put him in a snaffle - fine for hacking etc but jumping he seemed to panic if you didn't have control. After trying numerous bits I ended up using a rubber (or it may have been vulcanite) pelham but i completely removed the curb as I realised after a test hack that that just stopped him dead in his tracks if you applied any pressure.

Think what exactly your mare does - does she throw her head up (in which case avoid a gag bit) or down? I certainly wouldn't rule out a bitless, it can work well for horses who have sensitive mouths.

Unfortunately I decided with my pony, as talented as he was, no amount of schooling or practice was going to make him happy or consistent as a jumper so I stopped jumping him, just hacked him and it resulted in a much calmer, happier pony. If you believe she does enjoy her jumping then I would perservere and beg steal or borrow what ever bits you can!
 
brighteyes said:
^^ beg to differ - chasing her round will make matters worse. Learn to longrein and get her working low and through her back that way. A couple of weeks doing that every other night will help enormously.
Click to expand...

/\ /\ Please take Brighteyes' advice here. That and progressing to just quietly hacking in walk. I really don't think free schooling would be a good idea with the way that your horse goes at the mo.

I'm not against free schooling, it helped the last horse that I re-backed with his jumping immensely, but it's not for all. I once bought a project pony who had been free schooled to a ruin as he'd been 'chased' over every fence he'd ever done before he came to me. Poor little pony (14.1) could pop 4 ft plus, but he was never going to enjoy it after the start he'd been given in life. :( :(
 
DON'T use a hackamore.......if a curb chain has done damage, a hackamore will do worse! You could maybe try a Dr Cook's or a Scawbrig - if the horse has nothing to fight against it will probably relax. Also check your saddle fitting. Good luck!
 
I have to agree with the sentiments of "find a better instructor".
A good SJ Instructor will focus as much (if not more) on how you get to the fence (flatwork) as the fences themselves.
To give you an example, the pic below is my new lad. He's rising 5 and this was taken at his first comp (BSJA BN). From the look of the pic you would say he was going great yet I took him to Matt Lanni a few weeks after this and was told to stop jumping him as his canter wasn't good enough. Just confirmed what i was already feeling. His canter is far too long to make the distances comfortable. He can make a 4 stride related on 2.5 strides without pushing, just his normal canter. So I have lots of work to do getting him to shorten and lengthen between poles set at BS distances. Until he can do these comfortably I'm not allowed to jump from canter. I can still jump him but only from trot without any contact on approach so he learns to sort himself out.
As I'm sure you would agree, the pic of him jumping would suggest otherwise.
A good instructor is worth their weight in gold. :D
img004.jpg
 
JunoXV said:
I have to agree with the sentiments of "find a better instructor".
A good SJ Instructor will focus as much (if not more) on how you get to the fence (flatwork) as the fences themselves.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more... I go to an instructor who taught my parents to ride 30 years ago, and subsequently taught me, my sister and most recently has helped my OH learn to jump. She says she doesn't teach dressage, but SJ.

Having said that when OH first went for lessons on my lad it was 3 or 4 lessons before she let him go near a jump. She said he had to learn to manage Ron's stride, and get the approach right. Once he did that and was allowed to jump it was fab. Ron will jump anything off any stride, but it's not pretty or comfortable. Just a few tweaks and it's a totally different jump.

take the advice you're given on here OP. Like others have said give her a break for a couple of weeks, find a different instructor (get recommendations) and chat to them before you even book a lesson. A decent instructor will be happy to chat about you and your horse and their techniques. Then spend time on your flat work in a snaffle and a cavesson noseband.

Don't expect miracles, and they're more likely to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top