Young boy attacked by dog.

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Thanks so much for that post Prose...so nice to hear.
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You're welcome
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I also know of two Pit Bulls that are certified therapy dogs, and go to visit sick people in hospitals. They both wear vests with the "Ask to Pet Me, I'm Friendly" badges on.

Another couple of positive plugs: the " Pit Bull and Chicks" video from You Tube; lots of positive stories about Pits as K9 dogs, service dogs and such.
 
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most people wouldnt know a pitbull if it bit them on the ass quite frankly

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Too true! I can't tell you the number of people who have taken a few steps back when encountering my "baby Pit"
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And friends with larger Boston Terriers (25-30lbs) are continually told they are "irresponsible" for having "such a dog".
 
its up to the goverment now, they due stupid things like banning the docking of tails instead of allowing licensed profs to dock tails but they cant sort out what IDIOTS have dogs who dont deserve to!
 
How sad for that boy! He must be terrified! I was terrified of German Shepard's for years as one had my face in its jaws once - I cant say attacked as all he wanted was a lick of my Ice Cream and I was a toddler and it was young and over zealous, not vicious.

There are no such dogs as bad dogs, just bad owners. But some people just dont get that they help bring out the bad traits in their dog - like my mate who has a Jack Russell. They are territorial, so she lets it sit at the house gates and bark at people "cos thats just what it does" it never gets reprimanded. It then began thinking that everyones garden was its territory, then one day it came into our garden and attacked our dog - a mini schnauzer so same size/power. My ex picked the JR up and threw it away as it was going mental and he didnt want bit - the owner went mental at us even though our dog was the one bleeding. She was never 100% after that and I do think that wee JR was responsible for the broken vertebrae and damaged neck that eventually led to our dog being put down.
So its not just the size of dog, people need to pick a dog to match their temperament, and know enough about the breed to spot potentially dangerous behavior. If our dog got protective or bit over any of her toys they were taken away from her. If she got too rough playing a certain game, you stopped that game. The only thing we encouraged was catching mouses and rats as that was her 2nd job.

I am a firm believer in dog licenses though. And that you must by law have your dog spayed unless you either pay a substancial fee or have a further license. We were told by the kennel club that our dog must be spayed as she is not to be bred from under any circumstances.
 
ah yes - but don't forget that any moron is allowed (and encouraged by the tax and benefits system) to breed children, 'own' children and deal and rear children without any qualifications, license or training whatsoever.

Yet teachers etc, even at pony club, have to have their past checked by the criminal records bureau and have to take 'child protection' courses before they are allowed to deal with children !!!!!!!

so if it's legal for any old idiot to breed, rear and 'own' children then why do we expect it to be illegal for any old idiot to breed, rear and own semi-dangerous dogs ?!?!?!!?

Perhaps the answer is that no-one should be allowed to have children unless they are CRB checked and have been on training courses. After all - look at the checks and hoops people go thru before they are allowed to adopt a child. Wonder what would happen if the same rules and checks were applied to people who wanted to 'breed' a child ?! (slightly tongue in cheek but still a valid point)

and also could extrapolate as has been discussed extensively in other posts in Lounge to whether people who know nothing should be allowed to own and keep horses ....

Basically - yes - it's not the dogs fault - but as with horses - some dogs are more prone by temp. etc to be intolerant of bad handling and abuse than other breeds. Similarly you wouldn't expect a high mettled TB to put up with mistreatment in the same way as a more placid Exmoor would.(apologies to owners of TBs and exmoors !!)
 
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its up to the goverment now, they due stupid things like banning the docking of tails instead of allowing licensed profs to dock tails but they cant sort out what IDIOTS have dogs who dont deserve to!

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Funny you should bring that up TH, seen docking done pre ban by scissors and the pups cried a heck of alot less than mine did when having their hind dew claws snipped off.
 
<font color="peru">Yet more bad press for bull breeds. It should be irresponsible owners that're culled, rather than the dogs!

On a serious note, it really does infuriate me how much the media are leaping on any case of an aggressive bull breed. Yes, they are by nature more predisposed to agression than say, a beagle, but it is the owner who holds the responsibility to ensure that the dog is trained so that this is not an issue - and there are countless examples of loving, affectionate, well trained bull breeds. No dog is born bad, it is irresponsible owners that create problem dogs. Precautionary measures such as never leaving a dog of ANY breed alone with a child, for example, should just be common sense - but it appears many people are severely lacking in that.

If they continue with this notion to ban all bull breeds...well they better ban retrievers, yorkshire terriers, jack russells and collies too. I've known plenty of far more aggressive no-bull dogs. Take the case a year or so ago, or the dog that ripped someone's face to shreds, I believe that was a retriver/labrador? And yet the coverage of it, and similar non-bull attacks, is tiny in proportion to that of bull-attacks.

Sorry about the rant...it just really infuriates me when bull's are pigeonholed by the media as all being nasty, aggressive dogs when the truth is majoratively far from that.

Agreed there should be some form of liscence to own a dog, of ANY breed - or even an exam if it were permissable, just like potential adoptees have to go through! But unfortunately, as the DDA has proved, no matter what laws are put in place, there will always be idiots who ignore them.

My condolences to the boy's family.

TNN
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I did this debate for my English coursework. i will not bore you with all of it (over 3000 words long) but here are some key points (it get a little fancy in sum places!)

The current law situation in the United Kingdom is the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act, that dogs labelled as dangerous, like the pit bull terrier have to be muzzled in public, and the dog must be insured and neutered. Owners are not allowed to sell the dogs. If the dog attacks someone then the dog must be destroyed and if the dog’s owner is convicted of having an ‘illegal dog’, then they may receive a criminal record, up to a £5000 fine and up to six months in prison. However, that law was introduced in 1991. It is now 2007. Do you not think that a law needs to be updated regularly, and not be left dusty for 16 years? The metropolitan police acknowledge that there is a “significant increase” in dog attacks that the law is “too weak”.

So what breeds are dangerous? The law defines these types or breeds as dangerous: Pit bull terriers, Japanese Tosas, the dog Argentinos, and the Fila Brasileiros. Cross breeds are also covered by the law. Other dogs “appearing… to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose” are also outlawed. But, however, it is very difficult to categorise a dog when its jaws are snapping and the teeth are bared at you when you are trapped in a corner! Other dogs are dangerous as well, such as the Staffordshire bull terrier, as when it bites it holds on. It was originally bred as a fighting dog, and has arguably has lost some of its ferocity, and is considered to be a good companion especially to children. However, Emily Prescott, 16, suffered horrific nose injuries in an attack by the Staffordshire bull terrier she was cleaning out on work experience. This incident happened in a RSPCA centre. What would have happened if the attack had been on the street and not in a place where there are dog handlers?


Disturbingly though, the police are aware that a new fighting breed has been developed, the ‘Bandog’. These are hybrids of a Neapolitan mastiff – which can weigh 15 stone – and the American pit bull terrier. They are reputably the world’s deadliest dog, they are fast becoming regular sights on the fighting rings for dogs, and they are feared by the police. If the police are scared of this ‘Bandog’, then who are going to protect us, the general public?


Recent debates undertaken by the magazine “readers digest” have shown that 49% of the population believe that it is the owner to blame and not the dog. We are all familiar with the cliché “a bad workman blames his tools”, so what if the ‘bad’ owner blames their dog for the attacks? The Kennel club, the leading U.K dog experts, has the following opinion, “through the victims of irresponsible dog owners and the Kennel Club may disagree on the means of protecting the public there are areas of accord. We have discussed the matter and we are in agreement that the Dangerous Dog Act is flawed and needs amending, a matter that they are currently working on. We are agreed that irresponsible ownership is the main area of concern.” So ultimately, the Kennel Club says that yes the law is flawed, but the owners are more to blame than the dogs.

The metropolitan police believe that more and more people are “using dogs to intimidate or attack.” As the police recognise the increase of dog use in crime, surely the government must realise that the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 is not working? Another use of dogs in crime is to hide illegal drugs under their collar, as the police are too afraid to go near to a snarling, ferocious 15 stone fighting dog



cookies to all who read that!

i feel soooo sorry for the boy and agree that the law really needs changing
 
Gosh, you Brits are all so smart! Nice to see a discussion with some sense involved all round.
It isn't the breed it's the owner is so true. In American the dog which bites more children and adults is the Cocker Spaniel. Surprised? However! Unless any law passed is inforced it is useless. Only the licensing of dog owners and then the people to enforce licenses will work in the long run. The comment earlier about the "pit bull" being held at Stonehenge was so on point! I saw the same program. This dog seemed extremely friendly and nicely socialized, but the owners didn't seem to give a toss where their dog was or with whom!
I can tell you this about the RSPCA and the SPCA (American remember, I have far more experience with them!) I would NEVER turn one of my dogs over to them, much less take a dog somewhere it was not supposed to be in the first place and hand it over to some stranger with an RSPCA jacket to be shoved in a questionably clean crate and left all night while I went off to have a laugh with my friends. Should I have found myself in such a position unexpectedly, I would have gotten back in my car and left. Period. But see, that's what responsible dog owners do!
As to all this hubbub about tail docking and dew claw snipping, I chose salukis because they are shown very naturally, but I did clip off the dews (in America) because they are easily broken in a running dog. I did this at 2 days old and pups went right back to nursing and the site was healed up the next day. Now I find if I did the same here I could go to jail! Yet it seems preferable to take day old pups to a veterinarian where every germ and virus thrives (I mean they take sick dogs there, don't they?) to have a simple proceedure done. Thank God I only do rescues now, and while one came in without dews the other two have them. I worry constantly when we take them to the dog park to have a run (one at a time, we don't do packs!) that a dew claw will break resulting in surgery to repair.
You can't win for losing!
All we can do is care for our own dogs, watch out for everyone elses and pray a lot!
Suzi
 
actually not that surprised about the cockers - over here there has been a reasonably well publicised problem with cavalier king charles spaniels due to puppy farm type inbreeding causing the dogs to be nasty tempered.

and only_me has clarified what I was struggling to remember - it's certain dog breeds that have jaws that are bred to 'lock onto' their prey rather than bite and run - really is what I was getting at in my post about stub nosed v pointed nose breeds
 
Yes, you are correct about the difference in the type of bite between bracycephalic breeds and those with different shaped heads like say a laborador or even a border collie.
And you are dead correct about the puppy mills and what happens to breeds that become popular whatever the reason...usually lately due to becoming fashion accessories.
The poor staffies have now become the must have fashion accessory for the yobs who stalk our streets now. They are "things" to be used and abused as needed. There are no controls on breeding staffies at this point but there will be, mark my words. But it won't make a bit of difference because NO ONE will enforce laws already in place. And well the staffies, boxers, Boston Terriers, all the rest will get lumped into one box...the BAD box.
What happened in American Cocker Spaniels in the states was Walt Disney and Lady and the Tramp. Everyone wanted one. Everyone got one. Then somebody down the street had a male and you had a bitch and wow, some puppies, and on and on...no bother if the first breeding was full brother to full sister...hey, they were the same breed right? The AKC gave them "papers" right? Well, it's only taken the AKC about a billion years to start saying that AKC registration is NOT a guarantee of quality. Gee, yeah!!!! I mean, who is there to witness the breeding? It's all a matter of honesty and one knows honesty can't be legislated for can it? Now the AKC is talking DNA tests etc. Well, so be it. I'm not showing or breeding anymore, so I couldn't give a toss. Except for one thing, and that is it is the good honest breeders who will comply with the rules and the scum that will find a way around them.
Some world we live in, huh?
Suzi
 
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it's certain dog breeds that have jaws that are bred to 'lock onto' their prey rather than bite and run - really is what I was getting at in my post about stub nosed v pointed nose breeds

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Is it really a jaw shape thing, though? I mean, my Boston will hang on to one of her toys for dear life, but all terriers seem to share this trait, don't they, regardless of whether they're a pointy Fox Terrier or a snub-nosed Boston?
 
You cannot ever ever leave a child with any dog ( or horse for that matter)

Their responses get misinterpreted and then it's tragedy all round.
I have GSDs and Terriers and 2 and a 8 yrs olds that adore the animals. You may think your 'pets' are safe but I would never trust an animal alone - apart from it not being fair on the animal....
 
Here's a link you may be interested in Prose. It's rather long but well worth reading particularly as it is about NYC.

I've quoted a paragraph of it which I found interesting:

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The pit bull's unusual breeding history has produced some bizarre behavioral traits, de- scribed by The Economist's science editor in an article published a few years ago, at the peak of a heated British controversy over dangerous dogs that saw the pit bull banned in England. First, the pit bull is quicker to anger than most dogs, probably due to the breed's unusually high level of the neurotransmitter L-tyrosine. Second, pit bulls are frighteningly tenacious; their attacks frequently last for 15 minutes or longer, and nothing—hoses, violent blows or kicks—can easily stop them. That's because of the third behavioral anomaly: the breed's remarkable insensitivity to pain. Most dogs beaten in a fight will submit the next time they see the victor. Not a defeated pit bull, who will tear into his onetime vanquisher. This, too, has to do with brain chemistry. The body releases endorphins as a natural painkiller. Pit bulls seem extra-sensitive to endorphins and may generate higher levels of the chemical than other dogs. Endorphins are also addictive: "The dogs may be junkies, seeking pain so they can get the endorphin buzz they crave,"

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And here's the full link:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
 
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It's disgusting, it really is. I hope the little boy makes a full recovery.

For the person who said most childminders have staffies... where on earth did you hear that?
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I cannot think of ONE childminder who has a staffie.

On another note, re Anima's comments, you only have to go to your typical "kiss me quick" seaside resort to see the amount of penis extensions about. In the spring we went to skegness and there was a commotion in the street. On closer inspection there was a man (well, youth, complete with burberry) with a pit bull. The poor thing was so confused by the sheer amount of people walking by it was going at anyone who walked near it. As we passed by (at a distance) it's owner was trying the haul it back by it's harness. Suddenly the dog turned and attacked it's owner. Scary. That could have been someone's child
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. We've just come back from a few days away and I am still amazed at the amount of pitbulls we saw. I made OH carry our daughter on his shoulders most of the time as you couldnt walk down the street without coming across at least three.

I think any dog which resembles a Pit Bull (I know it's legal to have 'crosses' without a licence etc) should require a licence. Councils especially should ban them from estates (TBH that's where they're found the most).

Re the comments about cockers:we used to have a cocker.... and I would not trust one with my child. In fact, I wouldnt leave any dog alone with my child (afterall, any dog can turn if someone touches it and it happens to have a sore spot), hence why we don't have a dog at home atm, because we want to wait until the children are older and want to choose the right breed for our family.
 
Wow, now that's some wonderful evidence I am sending straight to my friend who's son was attacked. And it is what I have always believed.
Bracycephalic breeds with huge heads and underslung jaws were bred for all kinds of purposes including bear baiting, bull fighting etc. Man made the machine they wanted and then they got it.
No, your Boston is not anything like even a staffie, the ones I have known are wonderful dogs and great pets. Being from America I have known and judged hundreds and never had a problem with one ever.
As for leaving children alone with dogs or horses for that matter...well would you let your child play with a loaded gun?

The people who say Staffies are babysitters are WRONG in all cases. Staffies are wonderful dogs, but so are salukis. Now you would think that a saluki, whimpy dogs that they are, would be perfectly safe with children and they are. I've had two kids qualify for the Jr.Handling Championships at Madison Square Garden at Weminster Kennel Club. My kids grew up with them. A saluki wouldn't hurt a child for a second. And either would a staffie....EXCEPT under unusual circumstances. And here is an example. A child is running, falls down and immediately starts to scream. The scream gets higher pitched as the child wants his mummy NOW! That "prey" scream is the same scream a dying rabbit makes, or for that matter any prey in trouble. Dogs have been domesticated a long time, but there can be just that brief moment when that child becomes wild prey and it is injured and what does a carnivorous pack animal do when instinct turns on....that's when the child is in terrible peril.
I stopped going to my local riding club because the children there are completly out of control. This is a real pain to me as it is within walking distance and I love to go and help out with the horses when I can. But enough is enough. When no one tells a child that putting up spindly jumps made of brooms and step ladders directly behind teathered horses and proceed to jump them themselves, screaming and yelling it isa dangerous practice and a horrible thing to see if one likes children and horses. Mummy's stand right there beaming and smiling at their little tikes as they inch toward death and guess who'll be to blame? The horse that, having enough, takes a mighty swipe and then what?
All comes down to responsibility. Seems like I just keep typing that word over and over and over....
In this day and age responsibility seems a dirty word!
Suzi
 
Suzibn, this is off topic, but you MUST post some pictures of your Salukis in the dogs forum. I absolutely adore them, and only wish I'd snapped up "Montana", a Saluki we had last year at the rescue I volunteer with. What an angel she was
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Anyone that leaves their dog with a child is brave in my opinion. Sorry but your little angel might be pulling and poking and antagonising the dog to hell and back, and not able to read the clear signs that dog is giving them to back off.
Then the dog snaps and the childs arm is torn or its face. And then people will blame the dog. Poor dog and child are the ones who pay for what is ulitmately the owners negligence to both dog and child.
 
You are soooo right WRB!
I am NOT defending anyone here but the dogs...it's people that annoy me lol!
You know I have salukis and they have been bred for centuries to hunt. Because of the Muslim faith (typical where this breed was developed now) the dogs have been bred to hold their kill if large, or if small, to shake it and break it's neck. Because of the Muslim faith they can not eat of the kill if the skin has been punctured, so the dogs have been progressively bred to have "soft mouths". This did not keep me from being attacked and badly bitten (as well as were several of my top show dogs in this incident) by a rescue saluki I had taken in. She had been in the house for three weeks and had shown no agression towards any of the other salukis or to our family. It was as if something suddenly snaped and she just went nuts. The other dogs she attacked had been sleeping quietly on the floor. Once the other dogs had been safely crated and I thought things had calmed down, she turned on me, quite awfully! It turned out that she had a brain tumour, and I know this because I had her put down and a necropsy done.
This has not in any way stopped me from loving salukis and letting them sleep with me, share my food, lick my face.
But you know, there are times when Bently (the Scottish Goofhound who is half saluki/half scottish deerhound) is asleep and he smiles and sticks his tongue out when he does so...very idiotic to see!..and I look at the size of his teeth and I think, my God, how do these fabulous animals put up with people at all!!! They are armed to KILL. And they can.
And yet people will continue to let their little kids tug on their dog's ears, tails, kick them shake them, scream at them...and when the dog says enough...and they will in some way or another before attacking....if Mummy or Daddy isn't with the child then you know what will happen. The dog will be dead, it will be all over the news and whatever breed of dog it is will be tarred with the same brush.
Those of us who love dogs and live with them must be very careful to guard our own rights or we could end up with a ban on any breed!
Love yas
Suz
 
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For the person who said most childminders have staffies... where on earth did you hear that?
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I cannot think of ONE childminder who has a staffie.


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Just to be akward.....one of my cousins works for social services in child protection unit.
She has a wonderfull staffie.But he is a KC reg,nicely bred chap who has been raised properly,not a "lets make some cash off dog" type.

I really do belive ANY dog and ANY breed will be a good pet as long as it is well bred and properly brought up.
 
You are right there!!!
I'm all for correct breeding, correct handling, and obedience training for ALL dogs.
Darn it though, it isn't a perfect world is it?
And things like what happened to the little boy that started this discussion will go on happening.
I'm just afraid if some control is not taken soon we will all suffer....mainly the dogs.
With the new welfare laws (which I am all for, by the way and good on um for passing them) I cringe when I think of what could happen if say for instance I were in Fire Hills which is primarily a dog park in one section and I let it loose for a quick run. If my dog runs up to a child and barks, that could be seen as aggression, even if it were a play bark with a play bow! If the child is afraid, can I face jail, or can my dog be taken away? Well, I for one don't want to chance it.
What is a person to do?
Love ya
Suzi
 
I have a Rottie and she was fine (I have 3 kids) until the little fat 10 y.o. b**** nextdoor thought it was funny to repeatedly tease her by making loud fierce growling sounds from the safety of her trampoline net (I don't think so!) on more than one day. So now I have had to firmly warn the brat's mother and keep a very close eye on my dog as every time she sees the child in question her hackles are raised and she is on the defence. I know that after being brought up with Rotties ALL my life (I'm 34 btw) that if this 'child' continued it would only be a matter of time...and guess who'd get the blame??

That's the other side of the coin...there are some very stupid and very ignorant people out there...
 
Dont think so, as I understand it (and TBH my pets have always been looked after so have not bothered to lookinto it deeply) the new laws relate to neglect of animals.
Supose if you own a breed on the DDA you could get into trouble,but would think not.

In my family we own everything from the tiny yorkie to oversize great danes(and we all muck in with family dogs,sitting them when owner on holiday ect normaly me that gets called lol) and the only one I have found to be naturaly agressive is the yorkie.....who has bags of awwww factor and the one most likely to be swamped by children.
Even the akita was daft as a brush untill a brain tumor changed his behaviour,but that could happen to any dog
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