Young dog started being aggressive to other dogs.....

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L&M

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16 mth old whippet, non castrated currently, came to us at 4 mnths.

Initially he was very timid of other dogs, to the extent that if he felt threatened he would either cower, or run away. But over the last couple of mnths he has started to show agression to some, (but not all), other dogs. He lives with one other castrated male dog at home whom he adores and has never had any issues with.

Times he can show aggression:

- we live near a cycle network of lovely paths to walk on and regularily meet other dogs - most of the time he is fine but occasionally I can feel him tensing, and if my wits aren't about me he will lunge and bark at them. There is no rhyme nor reason to the dogs he chooses to bark at, but if I sense him tensing, can make him walk to heel and give a firm 'be nice' command', which stops any unwanted behaviours.

- at home we have a front garden that opens onto a lane that leads down to the aforementioned pathways, so we have dogs going past on a regular basis. Recently he has started to charge at the fence and bark agressively towards certain dogs, and to me appears to be a territorial thing?

However if we go out for the day to a public gathering with other dogs such as a p2p or Game Fair, he never reacts at all, and is a paragon of virtue, possibly because he is not on his 'own turf' so feels he has nothing to defend?

I have spoken at length with my vet about castration - initially we didn't want to consider it as was so timid with other dogs, hoped by leaving him whole, he may 'man up' a bit, but am now wondering if we have made a mistake. However my vet said that if his aggression is caused by a lack of confidence, castration could be the worst option as removes the one thing that is making him braver ie testosterone.

Hand on heart I really do not think he would actually attack another dog, and that his behaviour is a self defence mechanism. My concern is if he gives out these signals he may provoke an attack on him, and certainly can't see him coming off well. Also I do not wanting any outdoor time at home ruined as we can't trust him not to upset other dogs walking past with his anti social behaviour.

He has never shown aggression to humans and in public places, is kept on a lead.

Any advice?
 
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Gosh I've been thinking of writing the exact same post about Ted, although he's a bit older and castrated.

Our your cycle paths narrow? Do you walk on an extendable lead or is he on a short lead?
I live on a canal and it's our go to walk but recently my dog has started doing the same thing as yours, again no reasoning that I can see, just every so often. I think the close proximity of the canal path is definitely a factor in whether he feels threatened or not.

Same with the home turf theory, if he's out at a country show or in town he's everyone's friend ?‍♀️

Following, as someone with actual knowledge will be along with advice hopefully.

What I've started doing is just rather than waiting to distract from someone I can tell he's going to be aggro with, is just everytime i see another dog coming or passing us I get him to heel and "watch" me, treating him when we get by with no interaction.
 
Our litter sister Rottweilers went into showgrounds etc from being 3 months old and just got used to ignoring other dogs - completely dog neutral, even if the other dogs were noisy. But one of them went through a phase of not being happy to see other dogs walking on 'her' territory, if we didn't go in the car. She obviously thought that if we could walk there it was hers.
She grew out of it again, just because we persisted in walking her and insisting on 'heel' if there was another dog around, with a food reward if she ignored the dog.

We did wonder if she would revert when she started taking the Lab pups out and about but no, she has been just the same.
 
Thanks for your reply Tinkerbee, and how strange we are having a recent and similar issue!

The paths are a good 6 ft, with wide verges on one side and a narrower verge and fence with the canal on the other, so plenty of space to share.

He is walked on a flexi lead, and up until he was displaying these tendencies, would quite often go off the lead as has good recall, and enjoys playing ball chase with our other dog.

I have to say these types of paths can be a double edged sword, as dogs can be 'forced' to socialise, whether they like it or not. We have had a couple of incidents when he has been intimdated by other dogs, especially ones off the lead, which is perhaps where the root lies? For example he was 'dominated' by 2 loose Sharpei's at around 9 mnths old - owner nowhere to be seen and resulted in them standing over him, hackles up whilst he cowered in the bushes...….

But equally we meet a lot of nice, well socialised dogs, and if they are friendly on approach I am now asking the owners if they mind if he has a few minutes to interact to learn that all other dogs are not a threat.

Like you I can now read the situation and distract him, so worry about his behaviour at home more, as don't want the charging at the fence to become a habit and having to restrict him to the back garden.
 
I have no experience but am sort of quoting CC in saying that when he barks at dogs passing his space, they go away so he has won, in his eyes. This may extend to being out and about as well.
Personally in my limited experience I would not let him bark at the fence while dogs go past.
 
Clodagh said:
I have no experience but am sort of quoting CC in saying that when he barks at dogs passing his space, they go away so he has won, in his eyes. This may extend to being out and about as well.
Personally in my limited experience I would not let him bark at the fence while dogs go past.
Click to expand...

All well and good but our front garden runs approx 100 yds along the side of the lane, so if our backs are turned, or we are in the workshop, we don't always see a dog approaching, and if he is at one end of the stretch and we are at the other, have no hope of catching him before he starts creating........
 
It sounds like nervous aggression to me.
He has always been nervous and has had a couple of scares so is trying to make dogs give him space.
I would guess that at events he has either;
Not had a scare so is not so nervous in that environment or shuts down as he is in sensory overload.
I agree with your vet and would not castrate.
I would change where I walk so he only encounters dogs that are on lead or where you have lots of space to avoid other dogs, reward him for ignoring other dogs and relaxed behaviour.
I would also look at double fencing the garden, only putting him out there with supervision and with something to do. Start with training out there as far from the fence as possible, sit out there and read a book, drink your tea, read your post, have him on a long lead, have a pot of treats, talk to him when you see a dog approaching, stay calm, give treats when he focuses on you, gradually move to slightly nearer the fence but not until he pays passing dogs no attention, scatter feed him out there once he can reliably relax far from the fence but stay around, you need to stay calm and nice, if he reacts then he is under too much pressure and you need to just walk away/indoors taking him with you calmly, slowly and nicely remember not to 'run away' in an anxious state as that may reinforce his fear.
Remember it can just take one negative experience to set him right back to the beginning again, you may never be able to leave him unsupervised in the garden with the path running past it, to be honest I would not do that anyway as it would only take one dog to upset mine in the garden and there would potentially be bedlam.
Good luck
Pm me if you want any help and sorry for the essay.
 
twiggy2 said:
It sounds like nervous aggression to me.
He has always been nervous and has had a couple of scares so is trying to make dogs give him space.
I would guess that at events he has either;
Not had a scare so is not so nervous in that environment or shuts down as he is in sensory overload.
I agree with your vet and would not castrate.
I would change where I walk so he only encounters dogs that are on lead or where you have lots of space to avoid other dogs, reward him for ignoring other dogs and relaxed behaviour.
I would also look at double fencing the garden, only putting him out there with supervision and with something to do. Start with training out there as far from the fence as possible, sit out there and read a book, drink your tea, read your post, have him on a long lead, have a pot of treats, talk to him when you see a dog approaching, stay calm, give treats when he focuses on you, gradually move to slightly nearer the fence but not until he pays passing dogs no attention, scatter feed him out there once he can reliably relax far from the fence but stay around, you need to stay calm and nice, if he reacts then he is under too much pressure and you need to just walk away/indoors taking him with you calmly, slowly and nicely remember not to 'run away' in an anxious state as that may reinforce his fear.
Remember it can just take one negative experience to set him right back to the beginning again, you may never be able to leave him unsupervised in the garden with the path running past it, to be honest I would not do that anyway as it would only take one dog to upset mine in the garden and there would potentially be bedlam.
Good luck
Pm me if you want any help and sorry for the essay.
Click to expand...
 
twiggy2 said:
It sounds like nervous aggression to me.
He has always been nervous and has had a couple of scares so is trying to make dogs give him space.
I would guess that at events he has either;
Not had a scare so is not so nervous in that environment or shuts down as he is in sensory overload.
I agree with your vet and would not castrate.
I would change where I walk so he only encounters dogs that are on lead or where you have lots of space to avoid other dogs, reward him for ignoring other dogs and relaxed behaviour.
I would also look at double fencing the garden, only putting him out there with supervision and with something to do. Start with training out there as far from the fence as possible, sit out there and read a book, drink your tea, read your post, have him on a long lead, have a pot of treats, talk to him when you see a dog approaching, stay calm, give treats when he focuses on you, gradually move to slightly nearer the fence but not until he pays passing dogs no attention, scatter feed him out there once he can reliably relax far from the fence but stay around, you need to stay calm and nice, if he reacts then he is under too much pressure and you need to just walk away/indoors taking him with you calmly, slowly and nicely remember not to 'run away' in an anxious state as that may reinforce his fear.
Remember it can just take one negative experience to set him right back to the beginning again, you may never be able to leave him unsupervised in the garden with the path running past it, to be honest I would not do that anyway as it would only take one dog to upset mine in the garden and there would potentially be bedlam.
Good luck
Pm me if you want any help and sorry for the essay.
Click to expand...
 
Not an essay at all and makes total sense. I totally agree re the 'nervous aggression' and do wonder if a dog has approached the fence when we have been in the house, and given him a scare......fortunately he is very food motivated so will give your approach a go.

We have a large garden that surrounds the property, with which both dogs enjoy having have free range (although we can isolate an area at the back if necessary), so would be a real shame if we had to make restrictions.
 
I would castrate - medically if you want to test the waters. It is very hard to anyone to tell the difference between a hormone fueled territorial barker and a nervous barker and I think a lot are put down to nervous when losing their balls will help.
 
I agree with Twiggy - castration won’t change a thing in this sort of scenario IMO. I would love to have dogs which I could let wander outdoors unsupervised (and I have a garden surrounded by 5 or 6 foot fencing!) but I can’t, I think I would just restrict his freedom to the front garden and show the same level of awareness you are already demonstrating when you are out walking
 
L&M said:
16 mth old whippet, non castrated currently,

I have spoken at length with my vet about castration - initially we didn't want to consider it as was so timid with other dogs, hoped by leaving him whole, he may 'man up' a bit, but am now wondering if we have made a mistake. However my vet said that if his aggression is caused by a lack of confidence, castration could be the worst option as removes the one thing that is making him braver ie testosterone.
Click to expand...

Listen to your vet and do not castrate.

At 16 months he could still be in his second fear period.

I hope these 2 links will be helpful. The second link gives advice on the best ways to help him.

https://www.canisbonus.com/2018/06/08/newsflash-dogs-have-two-fear-periods/

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Dog-Behavior-Understanding-Fear-Periods-in-Dogs
 
I like your vet, very refreshing to see a balanced argument re castration. So many just want to whip them off. I have a similar problem with my lab in the garden. We border a bridleway, huge garden and bridleways run along 2 sides of the triangle. Lab is perfectly behaved out and about. However in the garden he will stand at the gate and bark, even when no one is there. The other dogs bark when someone is passing (2 castrated male spaniels and an elderly staffie bitch) Lab is entire and a potential stud dog.

It's almost as though his job in the pack is sentry. Unfortunately my dogs have been attacked a number of times by dogs who are allowed to run free away from their owners and come to my gate to 'bait' my dogs. The gate is set back a good 10m from the path but these people feel it's ok. I've been subject to huge amounts of abuse from walkers when I've asked them to keep to the path and put the dog on a lead if they can't keep it away from my gate.
 
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A lot of dogs are boundary defensive. I'd be shocked if mine weren't. They potter in the back garden but if someone comes to the front door or another dog walks up the lane, of course they charge forward woofing.
It's the canine equivalent of 'hey, who goes there, get orf my land' and as mentioned, the 'intruder' always goes away - 'it works'.
So I try not to let them get into that situation, IE keep them from accessing the porch or usher them into the back garden if I hear footsteps or see Radar Ears. But if they do, I apologise but I don't get too annoyed about it. It is their garden.
I'm another one who cannot leave dogs in garden unsupervised, it takes a little effort but it's not the worst thing in the world.
If you don't want it to be a problem, either watch him or put up a secondary barrier.
You can't train him to do/not do something if you're not there.

I went to a friend's house for the first time last night, I know all her four dogs, but they still stood and barked at me for a few minutes as I was a stranger in their house, then they realised I wasn't threatening/leaving and went and lay down. That sort of thing would not bother me.

Re random dogs out and about, again, that's life. Dogs give off imperceptible signals and vibes that other dogs may find confrontational or scary.
Cycle paths are narrow and he probably feels restrained/unable to escape the scary dog so feels the need to get all 'Hold me back!!'. At the moment he tenses, that's when you engage him/distract him and let him know there's nothing to worry about.
I don't automatically get on with everyone I meet and neither do dogs.

Neither of those things would make me want to remove the dog's testicles.
 
L&M said:
We have had a couple of incidents when he has been intimdated by other dogs, especially ones off the lead, which is perhaps where the root lies? For example he was 'dominated' by 2 loose Sharpei's at around 9 mnths old - owner nowhere to be seen and resulted in them standing over him, hackles up whilst he cowered in the bushes...….
Click to expand...

There you go. It can only take one bad experience in the imprinting stages, especially if he's sensitive.

You need to take the lead and let him know that you're the one handling all interactions from now on. If you see a dog coming and feel it isn't going to be a positive interaction, either distract/engage and body block, or both.
My dog is much bigger and carries his ball everywhere. If I see another dog approaching at speed/with nefarious intentions, I turn him away and put myself between the two dogs. He knows that I will handle the situation and as such is a lot less reactive/doesn't feel like he is exposed/has to protect himself.
 
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