young eventers attitudes

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silu

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I have just read georgie strang's analysis of the fall at Burghley. I am some what shocked that there was not one mention of it possibly being her fault. I am slightly at a loss as to why the younger generation of eventers seem to always blame the horse. It sometimes comes across that they forget if it wasnt for their horses they would be no where.
 
Not all of us are like that as I am sure you know :) It does seem to be the case though and I can see where you are coming from, however I don't think that just the younger generation can be blamed for blaming the animal first.

I for one always blame myself as nine times out of ten it is my own doing. I also take the blame for the fall that led to my broken arm.
 
Going to don my tin hat and agree with you Silu re: the article, I thought the same when I read it too :o
But I disagree with you re: young eventers- cant tar everyone with the same brush ;)
 
I think the powers that be usually have a quiet word and put them on the straight and narrow. I'd also take that blog with a pinch of salt - the girl had a bad fall, didn't remember what happened and had temporary memory loss. I should think once she sat down and rewatched it with her coach, she'll have a better handle on what went wrong.
 
I think it's unfair to label all of the "younger generation of eventers" as having this attitude. There are plenty of brilliant young event riders and, equally, plenty of adult riders who could do with a reminder on where to pin the blame when things go wrong...!

I always blame myself for things going wrong- I know that 99% of the time it will have been because I got carried away and didn't do something properly. I am much more of a numpty than my horse and happy to admit it! ;)
 
Dont get me wrong I am not tarring all young eventers with the same brush! Certainly older more experiences riders do the same but they just seem to do it more often. I occasionally read horse heros and young riders blogs on their own web pages and it does strike me that 9 times out of 10 they blame the horse. I am not saying its never the horses fault, god sometimes it just is that simple they are not machines everyone knows that. I just think that these riders are the future mary kings and william fp of the eventing world and perhaps should look to themselves first before assigning blame.
 
Thanks Nutkin. I've read the blog and I'm a little :confused: that everyone is reading this to be her blaming the horse? I haven't watched their round on Burghley tv (will try do that this week when I've time), but from reading the blog, she firstly writes;

The next thing I remember is sitting in the ambulance, with my hat, boots, body protector on the floor and my stopwatch beeping at 40min! My Mum and Dad then arrived and apparently all I kept asking was is Ben ok? What happened? Was it my fault? Over and over again.
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So her first worries were for the horse and "was it my fault". Hardly blaming the horse?

And she goes on to write;
In hindsight I would have come in a lot steadier and tried to just pop the first rail so he couldn't have jumped so big, but you can only learn from your mistakes and the possibility of doing one stride hadn't crossed anyone's minds.
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However I watched the course preview with Mark Phillips and he talked about riders really needing to attack the A element of this combination in order to make the long 2 stride distance to the corner. So she was doing what the course designer wanted her to do, it's just her horse was a little too bold.

I think the criticism has been a little harsh, but maybe I'll change my mind when watching the vid. Just my opinion though. :o

PS- I also think that as long as the horse is fit, sound and happy to do it's job, it should matter what "number" is describing it's age. Albeit I am riding nowhere near 4* level, my horse is 19 and I will keep her going as long as she's happy. I hope MM has many more years of fun ahead of him, sounds like he truly loves his job and wasn't struggling up until this mistake/accident which could have happened had he been 9yrs old, never mind 19.
 
I should hope that would be her first concern after all it wasnt the horses decision to be competing! She did blame the horse what else are you supposed to read from what she said?


"After a lot of analysing we think he either may not have read the back rail on the corner and therefore would have cleared it if there hadn't been one, or he was a little over enthusiastic and had possibly wanted to show off for the crowds by doing what no other horse had tried, however I will never know."
 
When I saw the fall on TV it looked to me that the rider simply missed (quite badly). Her blog comes across as being a bit confused, though, so I don't think we should be too hard on her - horses do miss too, sometimes. Sounds like she's just in a muddle about what actually happened.
 
I agree i dont think the horse was to blame there what so ever... and he really is a top, top class horse. however would hope that you dont think all young riders are quick to blame the horses... :) i cirtainly cant blame my horse for anything... he hasnt been foot perfect, but hes taught me to ride, and thats what we brought him for. Ive made alot more mistakes in our time together than him, so surely i have to forgive him for the odd mistake if the majority of them are my fault?
 
silu said:
I have just read georgie strang's analysis of the fall at Burghley. I am some what shocked that there was not one mention of it possibly being her fault. I am slightly at a loss as to why the younger generation of eventers seem to always blame the horse. It sometimes comes across that they forget if it wasnt for their horses they would be no where.
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In your OP you said there wasn't one mention of it possibly being her fault, which isn't true (as I highlighted in my previous post) and that it comes across as forgetting about the horse- she said she went straight to the stables to give MM kisses and carrots, hardly forgetting about him?

I do think the criticism is a little unfair, the written word can be misinterpretted pretty easily. I don't think her blog comes across as uncaring or brat-like at all. Maybe the horse did misread the fence as surely if he'd realised the spread on it, he wouldn't have jumped from where he did?

Sadly, we can't ask him for his opinion, so will have to rely on the rider who has more experience of how he behaves/reacts and his character.
 
I posted this thread, NOT to get at Georgie Strang in particular or riding an aged horse at 4* level. I posted it because every young rider is incredibly priviledged, tho sometimes it wouldn't appear they think that, to be riding at such a high level, as I doubt there will be many horses at 4* level TOTALLY brought on by someone under 25, without massive amounts of help. I think I am right that the VERY knowledgeable commentators never mentioned anything to do with the horse being at fault? My only gripe is that it would appear that many are slow to blame themselves and quick to blame the horse...maybe they are not experienced enough to know? If that is the case they shouldn't be riding at 4* until they admit to their shortcomings.
 
I think that is the youth culture of todays attitude, you see kids out and about and they want it handed to them on plate, not just in the equestrian world.
They seem to think that its god given right, for it all to fall on their lap!!
I had the DELIGHT of taking two youngsters hunting last season, they treated ponies like a machines and refused to wash them off saying that was MOMMYS job!!
 
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I hope that as time passes and Georgie's memory becomes clearer possibly with the help of the video, she realises that there is a whole difference between riding positively forward IN BALANCE and with a stride that is adjustable with the correct pace and power for the question being asked so that the horse can read the fence and is in a position to make the necessary adjustments and what she did which was ride fast at the fence on a long flat stride so the horse had to pick up off 1 stride as there was insufficient room for the 2nd stride at the length he was at especially as he had landed so far out (inevitable with that approach). The 2nd stride would have taken him at least to the base of the fence, if not into it, which would have resulted in a far worse rotational type fall. All in all she was very lucky that she was riding a horse with the class and scope to be an olympic horse and that there is hopefully no long term damage to either of them.

However, I have to ask myself if it is not better for young riders to work their way up through the ranks, gaining enough experience at each level before moving on to the next. This particular rider had only done 1 advanced class before going 3* and has only ridden in 2 advanced classes in total. She has done 4 3* (2 CIC, 2 CCI) and the open at Gatcombe. Before getting MM her intermediate experience was very limited and with him 5 2* and a couple of OI. How can she have the necessary experience? Bravery is not enough.
 
To be fair, there was some VERY considered and mature riding from quite a few of the "kids" at Burghley. I suspect if you went to a random event and watched grown ups at any level (and listened to them afterwards in the lorry park ;) ) you see at least as much poor decision making and entitled behaviour. You also see a lot of people defending such decisions by saying they know it was there fault, but them not doing anything to avoid the same problem happening again. I'm not sure this is preferable.

I'm sure Georgie will hear A LOT about this incident (this thread for example) and be forced to think long and hard about something which she probably doesn't really remember clearly anyway. How many of us would relish being in that position? Yes, she genuinely made a mistake and is probably lucky it wasn't worse. And maybe she lacked the experience to jump that track but she had qualified and we get back to that old discussion, how much do you control people for their own good? I don't think it's an age thing - look how many "first timers" at 3/4* are on their first "big" horse?

I thought the kids we saw interviewed were, by and large, extremely well spoken and educated about their sport, possibly more so than previous generations. I thought a few of the comments in the "looking back" segment came off less flattering! And the clip of Ginny on Murphy was positively terrifying! :eek:

While it's true getting to 4* at that age takes a large support system and investment of time and energy from many quarters (which would be true for anyone at that level, I'd wager . . .) it also takes no small amount of talent. There are lots of kids - good riders - who are also well supported and well mounted who never get close to that level with any success.

I'm kind of old now ;) and I remember some pretty stroppy kids from way back when, so I'm not sure it's "modern" so much as "people".
 
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Can we please just stop getting at Georgie, YES she made a mistake but seriously quit with the high and mighty!
Actually Silu most the time the young riders are the ones that bring on the 4* event horses!
I brought mine up from an unbroken 4yo to 4*, Sarah Stretton brought on Skip On since a naughty 4yo, Emily L the same with Pardon Me, Nic Malcolm the same with Mcfly, Alice Pearson brought her horse on from intermediate level, Lauren Shannon the same with hers and she has had some horrid falls and tough times on the way and now look at her! Beautiful riding! Angus Smales and Aarron Millar with their horses too and i can throw in a ton more names that have produced horses to advanced 3* level! Had Georgie gone clear none of this would be said...
SERIOUSLY TO RIDE AT 4* LEVEL IT IS NOT HANDED TO YOU ON A PLATE. No one I have ever encounted has acted like a spoilt brat in this sport. Never ever. You just don't know how much blood sweat and tears go into it, however expensive your horse.
Jealousy... such a horrid thing.....
 
I thought her blog read very well and she really cares for the horse, all of the younger riders rode so nicely and I agree some of the old footage was terrifying!

I can only imagine how hard it is too get to that level I find intros scary enough.
 
^^ here here!

I have always been told that it's much more likely that riders take the horses that they've produced round 4* successfully than horses bought at that level. Not to mention that very few riders aged under 25 have the funds to buy a brilliant 4* horse. Don't know riders stories personally like ElleJS, but I think SO much prejudice and stereotyping has popped up in this thread! Ridiculously unfair on substantial chunk of the population!
 
I certainly don't know enough to make any kind of comment about her riding. However, given that she can't remember what happened, what she's written must be based on what she's been told by other people and now probably isn't the time for other people to be too critical. She won't be needing her confidence to be knocked any more than it has been by the fall and I'm sure if she made a mistake she will acknowledge it sooner or later.

If she'd not written the blog we'd have had nothing to write about so good for her for having the courage to put her feelings into words so soon.

Incidentally, I have seen brattish behaviour but it's been from a (very) few of the junior eventers' parents rather than the kids ;)
 
Just on the subject of making one's own horses, the reason people make such a big deal about people like Mark Todd, Andrew Nicholson etc. successfully taking on horses that are relatively advanced is actually THAT is the exception. I really don't think anyone just hops on a made horse at that level and pays for their trip. Yes, young riders do sometimes have a more experienced horse in their history (invaluable if you can get it) but it's usually one on the way down/at a lower level and not a top class, huge money horse.

I did think one of the classiest rides of the day was the Swedish boy. His horse is clearly not the quickest or the snappiest but he rode it in a lovely rhythm, making decisions that suited the horse. I doubt many older riders would have ridden with as much thought. And, as I said before, I thought on average the young riders rode fantastically, far better than you'd see a lot of older people riding at any random event.

Interestingly, I had a discussion on Saturday with someone who had been surprised to find out successful competitors/professionals feel connected to their horses and don't just treat them like commercial products. I don't know why that's a shock. Good horsemanship is as much about humility and feeling as it is about technique and ambition. Oddly, a lot of great horsemen "talk tough" - I think because they think it's expected of them - but seeing them alone with their horses, and how the horses react to them, it's a whole different story. It's such a hard job, why would anyone do it if they didn't love it?
 
ElleJS said:
Had Georgie gone clear none of this would be said...
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Tbh, if she had gone clear and given the nature of internet forums, it would have probably been remarked that she was very lucky to get around and be in such a position to be given a proven 4* horse to ride at that level. Tina Cook's certainly been quoted in Eventing I think it was about YRs being given 4* rides and how it doesn't help in the general scheme of developing ability, skills and learning about progression of levels, unlike the majority of the generation before. AFAIK and this is merely an observation, GS's rides at advanced level have only been on Master Monarch, not something she's produced from the bottom which is slightly different to those other riders you mentioned, including yourself :)

At the end of the day, it happened and thankfully they both walked away from it (stud holes in her hat for example). People said the same about Pippa Funnel in the press (and it probably would have been said online if internet forums had been around in the 90s too) and look at her now. I for one really hope GS bounces back from it as she was looking pretty good before then.

Interestingly though, I don't think I've ever heard Mike Tucker react in such a way during his commentary as he did over GS's fall.
 
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I know this is an open forum and the OP is entitled to their opinion but you’ve honestly made me so mad, once again witch-hunting and stating silly statements which if you read the article like Figjam has pointed out she does realise her mistakes.
This poor lass has had a bad moment- can you honestly say you haven’t the difference is you’re the lucky one who can probably do it in the shadows compared to this

If anyone knows Georgie please let her know that I am grateful that she did the H&H blog and I felt she came across very well and I enjoyed gaining a little insight on her and Bens new partnership and hope that they are both well and ready to fight another day.

This girl had a horrid fall and can’t be feeling her best then she hears the gossip mill’s turning – give her a break!
 
Just watched Georgie's round- my heart was in my mouth, she appeared to be going VERY fast, like a bat out of hell!! Thought she was going to come a cropper at any moment, what a horse to have jumped so well for her and to have got so far.
I seriously hope that the officials will be having words with her, both for her own and the horse's sake- this is exactly how deaths happen, I hate to say that but its true.
I'm shocked that her/her trainers/her parents/the owners can't see what went wrong- its as clear as day she was going far, far too fast and unbalanced- scarily so.
Georgie certainly has talent and ability but I do hope she learns from this and someone points her in the right direction to lessen the chances of such a thing happening again.
I hate to write posts like this as I know I'm in no position to judge- but seriously, safety is whats important here.
 
I have to be honest I havent read her blog, nor seen what happened, however, all I do know is that it takes guts and skill to ride at that level, not matter how old you are. She is one lucky girl to have a horse of that calibre and I am sure she will learn a hell of a lot from this experience, and I dont think its really right that she gets pilloried.

However, I do agree with a poster further on up. A lot of kids expect it all on a plate. I have seen it in our PC and on our yard. I could write reams on a kid on our yard regarding her quest to be an event rider. Mummy has to pay out for expensive horses, kit, training, tack etc. Said kid does not want to work hard, just expects horse to stick it head down in the right place and shove its hocks underneath itself with no help from her. Her results are mediocre and its all down to the horse, and I have seen her kick her horse in the stomach because her dressage was not good. Her old horse is now sold and she has yet another poor horse to blame for her shortcomings. I've also seen it in our PC, where parents go out and buy the most expensive pony for their little darling, who really cant ride even one side of it. It all goes horribly wrong, pony gets sold as a bad job and another pony bought.

You may think I am bitter, but I am not. We have a lovely mare, Mini TX is doing ok thank you, ok it could all be better, but then again you cant sit on your laurels in eventing. I just get hacked off with the 'Have it now' attitude of some kids (not all I would add), which spills over to horses. I've ridden for a long time, have never got anywhere, mainly because I am not ambitious and its a bit of fun and my chillout time, and this attitude was not around a few years ago. Yes there are lucky kids with top horses who work at it, yet there are just as many who dont. Talking of the parents, oh dont get me started. Go to any BE90 and walk around the lorry park afterwards. You will witness some pretty horrible displays of temper and thats from the parents not the kids!
 
well said elleJS...i really can't comment on the riding, i haven't seen the video and i am also crap so couldn't even try to comment :eek: however, i do think she comes across very well in the blog- she does question whether she was to blame (or she seems to to me?? :confused:) and clearly loves her horse to pieces. i really do think that some of the comments on here (not all by any means) are really quite arrogant and opinionated...would love to see some of the posters on here go round burghley :rolleyes: ;) (and i DO realise that some have :) )
 
I hate these posts. I suggest all those criticising poor Georgie go away and read the autobiographies of any of the top riders - pretty much without exception they recount tales of riding badly at high levels, pushing horses up the grades they now look back and know were not 4* horses etc. It's just they all did it back when it might have been occasionally televised but not often, and there was no Internet, so one could not watch in great detail what everyone did then discuss/slate them on an Internet forum. All the true top riders went through the phase of making bad decisions, they were just lucky enough to do it in an age when it was not all in the public eye. I seem to recall pippa Funnell's bad decisions being the subject of a H&H column!

Having watched Georgie (in the flesh not on video) it actually looked like she was trying to anchor him and he was having far too much fun. All the distances walked long apart from the arena, so I think she was unlucky. As she said in her blog, she knows what she should have done.
 
First of all, I'm not an eventer, I've not competed affiliated and you can hear what I say and take it or leave it...

When I first read the article I thought she was totally blaming the horse.

I then read it through again and realised I had totally misread it, and I actually think she realises it may have been her fault, and she was genuinly concerned for MM.

She is only young, she has to be talented to have got to that level in the first place and isn't there a well known saying - we all learn from our mistakes?

How about we give the girl a break and let her do just that, be grateful that they both walked away in one piece and not dwell on what may have/have not been.

Finally, lets support our young riders - they're the MK's and WFP's of tomorrow remember!
 
It's a pity that many people do not READ what other posters say. I thought I had made it quite clear in my original post that this was NOT a witch hunt of Georgie Strang in particular, if it had been her named would have been mentioned in the post's title! Elle JS didn't disappoint by predictably retaliating with the jealously card...yawn, thank god for frangible pins and hope the old boy isn't too sore.
 
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