young eventers attitudes

At the top levels you do not see many snotty Young Riders they cannot afford to be as they have worked bloody hard to get their place. There used to be a time where you could buy a place on the junior team but not so any longer they are all making their own horses. The only team you can buy your way onto is ponies now as the good ones go round and round different riders.
I feel desperately sorry for GS because there are other riders who looked appalling and yet have not had any criticism. One Sjing round was hideous to watch. There has been no crit of Rosie Thomas and yet she has far more experience and made a similar mistake. GS inexperience showed but you have to start somewhere. The owners clearly think she is competant and are happy for her to continue so we should back off. If the horse had been the middle of the road average horse no one would even be commenting.
Pippa Funnell and others making mistakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvJVTHk2m74
 
Thank you to Spotted Cat and ElleJS for some common sense. I read Georgie's blog and can't see what the fuss about?! Are you all reading something different to me?! Confused...
 
ElleJS said:
Can we please just stop getting at Georgie, YES she made a mistake but seriously quit with the high and mighty!
Actually Silu most the time the young riders are the ones that bring on the 4* event horses!
I brought mine up from an unbroken 4yo to 4*, Sarah Stretton brought on Skip On since a naughty 4yo, Emily L the same with Pardon Me, Nic Malcolm the same with Mcfly, Alice Pearson brought her horse on from intermediate level, Lauren Shannon the same with hers and she has had some horrid falls and tough times on the way and now look at her! Beautiful riding! Angus Smales and Aarron Millar with their horses too and i can throw in a ton more names that have produced horses to advanced 3* level! Had Georgie gone clear none of this would be said...
SERIOUSLY TO RIDE AT 4* LEVEL IT IS NOT HANDED TO YOU ON A PLATE. No one I have ever encounted has acted like a spoilt brat in this sport. Never ever. You just don't know how much blood sweat and tears go into it, however expensive your horse.
Jealousy... such a horrid thing.....
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I have only read the first 2 pages of this thread, but well said! These posts are so infuriating!!!
 
TheoryX1 said:
I
However, I do agree with a poster further on up. A lot of kids expect it all on a plate. I have seen it in our PC and on our yard. I could write reams on a kid on our yard regarding her quest to be an event rider. Mummy has to pay out for expensive horses, kit, training, tack etc. Said kid does not want to work hard, just expects horse to stick it head down in the right place and shove its hocks underneath itself with no help from her. Her results are mediocre and its all down to the horse, and I have seen her kick her horse in the stomach because her dressage was not good. Her old horse is now sold and she has yet another poor horse to blame for her shortcomings. I've also seen it in our PC, where parents go out and buy the most expensive pony for their little darling, who really cant ride even one side of it. It all goes horribly wrong, pony gets sold as a bad job and another pony bought.
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But I think this is exactly the point - money does NOT buy success at the upper levels. (Absolutely, it's expensive, but just shelling out won't make it happen.) The kids who have done enough to qualify for 4* at so young an age have worked hard and have no doubt had the requisite knocks. It's really not comparable. And I still say, at least you can forgive youth - I'm far less inclined to forgive grown ups, who should know better, for making bad decisions and not wanting to know.
 
I have just read the blog before coming onto here and seeing this thread... I think she was very obviously worried about MM, sorry but IMO OP has completely misread her blog!!

I also watched the fall yesterday online and the first thing I said to my husband was that I thought the commentators were a bit harsh in what they were saying and that I felt she rode the first element exactly the same as many before her that had got it just right, my opinion was that MM had misread the question and done a Murphy Himself and just got a bit gung-ho!!

I am no expert I have only competed up to Novice myself but that is what I thought before reading hers or anyone else's opinions on the fall!! My own horse is by cavalier and is typical of his breeding and can be very gung-ho XC most of the time he is great but every now and again he'll take me by surprise and put in and extra or take out a stride, after all at any level the horse still thinks for itself, and sometimes will not agree with its rider!!!
 
Just goes to show the power of the written word! I read the blog earlier, and didn't read it that she was blaming the horse, the only comment really relating in a very very tenuous way was 'that he was having too much fun and showing off'! My horses do this at local shows and god forbid you see them in the paddock at a P2P. Horses as clever as MM do play to the crowd.
GS will be sore, but will go away work with the classy horse she has EARNED the ride on and will learn from her very public mistake (whether that be hers, the horses or the combination!)
And for your information silu, I don't know if you know how hard it is to secure good rides on decent horses, but a friend of mine once had a 3* horse at an event yard with a YR of another nation and she was constantly recieving letters, references, requests for meetings with other YRs who all stated amazing cases for taking over the ride. If the owners wanted someone else to ride MM believe me they would already have a list!
For the record no jealousy on my part as I am well past it, and couldn't be bothered any more! :grin:
 
ElleJs-I believe you are harking back to your own performance being mentioned on here and some of yuor defensiveness comes from remembering that experience-I cannot remember the details at all but you are very defensive and determined that no wrong can be done by any top event riders-equally 'pathetic' as you like to say imo.
She rode poorly. It was her first 4*, so she threw the horse at the fences at times, it happens to many at their first move up, and generally ends up in tears, as it did this time. The horse was too honest-yes but that was his only fault.
And yes, it is a young persons attitude to write as she did, if you put youself out there you can't expect to only have 'yes you're wonderful' comments.
 
I feel very sorry for Georgie she was obviously very excited and enthusiastic and she and her horse didn't quite read the fence correctly and they had a nasty fall.

She's not blaming the horse!!! she sounds confused and concerned as to what happened after a nasty bang on the head like that is anyone surprised? for all those critisising her you should be ashamed of yourselves....just remember riders learn from their mistakes and it is a very long learning curve.
 
I just don't see that it's any of my business to pass judgement on SOMEONE ELSE'S decisions. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone and all that. Can anyone here really say hand-on-heart that they've never made a mistake at a fence? Master Monarch is a big strong enthusiastic horse and she is a small girl. We can't all anchor a horse like Andrew Nicholson. I'd like to see the detractors do a better job TBH. OP, I know that might not have been your original post but others have posted and it's good for Georgie, if she's reading to know that there are people out there who do understand that it's not as simple as 'bad riding = bad fall'.

I've met a couple of young riders and they have impressed me with their drive and talent. Yes, they are young and they see things in a young sort of way. But if you're older and wiser (and there are a fair few of those type of posts on here tonight ;)) then it's much more your job to educate the next generation, not just nuke their self esteem.

I'm sure Yogi B or similar will have a word if required. And frankly that's his job - not ours, IMHO!
 
Everybody learns from mistakes and sadly we learn less when things go right. However, that she made a mistake is not my concern, it is that while she was qualified by the letter of the law, she lacks mileage at a lower level. This is why the FEI have changed the wording to MINIMUM REQUIREMENT rather than qualification. MM would be the eventing equivalent of a Ferrari, so everything tends to happen very quickly. At 4* level there is less margin for error and inexperience probably doesn't mix well with a sports model at that level. Also it is 3 years since he ran at that level so it was a step back up for him too. I have no problem with Georgie learning from him at a level that is easy for him so he can help her out when necessary. At a higher level he needed more help to be safe so maybe a step back and learning the correct way to present him to fences is the best way forward. Toddy came to the same spot as her so maybe watching what he did would be a good lesson and a chat with Yogi would also help.
 
FigJam said:
Thanks Nutkin. I've read the blog and I'm a little :confused: that everyone is reading this to be her blaming the horse? I haven't watched their round on Burghley tv (will try do that this week when I've time), but from reading the blog, she firstly writes;



So her first worries were for the horse and "was it my fault". Hardly blaming the horse?

And she goes on to write;


However I watched the course preview with Mark Phillips and he talked about riders really needing to attack the A element of this combination in order to make the long 2 stride distance to the corner. So she was doing what the course designer wanted her to do, it's just her horse was a little too bold.

I think the criticism has been a little harsh, but maybe I'll change my mind when watching the vid. Just my opinion though. :o

PS- I also think that as long as the horse is fit, sound and happy to do it's job, it should matter what "number" is describing it's age. Albeit I am riding nowhere near 4* level, my horse is 19 and I will keep her going as long as she's happy. I hope MM has many more years of fun ahead of him, sounds like he truly loves his job and wasn't struggling up until this mistake/accident which could have happened had he been 9yrs old, never mind 19.
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You missed this bit ..

After a lot of analysing we think he either may not have read the back rail on the corner and therefore would have cleared it if there hadn't been one, or he was a little over enthusiastic and had possibly wanted to show off for the crowds by doing what no other horse had tried, however I will never know.
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Sounds like blame/passing the buck to me.
 
Poor Georgie, I certainly did not read her blog as some others did, I read it as a young girl that had a terrible fall, scared for her horse, and dissecting every second of what had happened through limited memory, an open honest account of how she was feeling at the time of writing.

MM is a superstar horse, to be going at the level he is at at his age, to so love the sport still, and trying his heart out, Georgie I believe reading her blog cannot believe her luck at having such a star in her stable, and adores him and certainly is not blaming him for their fall.

Surely a hard fall at 4* or at Novice is still a hard fall for horse and rider, accidents do happen and mistakes happen on both sides, that is what makes our sport so hard because it is a partnership with an animal that does not understand english, but that is what makes it so endearing to so many of us.

We forget some of our "heros" now have had horrific falls, that as the years go by we forget about and they are now gods of eventing, if forums had existed in their day then I am sure they would have been slated, told to regroup, think of the welfare of their horse, worded their blog better. They have still ended up as heros with or without forums, I am sure Georgie will do the same.

One thing I am sure of is that Georgie would have had to be an outstanding prospect to have MM, as having an intermediate horse that possibly might go to a junior next year and upon advertising the fact the amount of riders that have come forward for the ride is astounding, so 4* being like hens teeth to get a ride on, his owners saw something special in her.

It is very strange a horse has a heart attack or breaks a leg out hunting, thats fine it died doing something it loves, if it dies in any other equestrian sport then it has paid the ultimate price.
 
She's a sportsman, criticism is part of the package. I'm sure a lot of you slagged off the England footballers following the world cup, or have moaned about our cricket team losing a test. It's the same thing.
 
Seth said:
She's a sportsman, criticism is part of the package. I'm sure a lot of you slagged off the England footballers following the world cup, or have moaned about our cricket team losing a test. It's the same thing.
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Not at all. I have no interest or knowledge in football or cricket. Especially footballers who are grossly overpaid ... although that's a whole new thread.

That's not directed at any one footballer by the way ;)

Moaning about a team is completely different to 'moaning' about an individual. Footballers etc do not have an animal that they love and care for in their responsibility.
 
i do believe the commentators later on in the day were talking about how the experienced riders have the ability to make those ultra fast decisions which often save them from becoming a cropper. This didnt happen in georgies case but at the end of the day it was her first four star and I'll bet she doesnt ride strings of horses all day every day like the rest of them. good on the girl i say. at no point reading her blog did she come across as brattish or blaming the horse, i think what shes trying to get across is 'the horse thought he knew best and sadly I didnt react well enough to help him'.

at the end of the day she made a mistake. it happens to EVERYONE at EVERY level and i applaud her for her talent and work she must have put in to get where she is. Even people with pots of money and all the best trainers dont get offered horses like that. Theres a lot more involved with the sport than just having the 'best of everything'.

also, as i bet 99.9% of us on here have never ridden at that level then who the hell are we to judge to comings and goings of competing in the top flight? yes we can have our own quiet opinions but to get so vehemently opnionated over it when REALLY we dont know the ins and outs in my mind is wrong.
 
GrandPrixToBe said:
Not at all. I have no interest or knowledge in football or cricket. Especially footballers who are grossly overpaid ... although that's a whole new thread.

That's not directed at any one footballer by the way ;)

Moaning about a team is completely different to 'moaning' about an individual. Footballers etc do not have an animal that they love and care for in their responsibility.
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So if after the world cup I had said 'England were absolute rubbish' then it would have been ok, but had I said 'Rooney was well below par and was useless' then that would have not been? You think football fans would have rushed to his defence and said we aren't allowed to judge him since we aren't pro footballers ourselves? Hmm.
 
silu said:
It's a pity that many people do not READ what other posters say. I thought I had made it quite clear in my original post that this was NOT a witch hunt of Georgie Strang in particular, if it had been her named would have been mentioned in the post's title! Elle JS didn't disappoint by predictably retaliating with the jealously card...yawn, thank god for frangible pins and hope the old boy isn't too sore.
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Maybe you'd like to re-read the first line of your OP?! Not quite sure how this OP is "not" referring to GS?!

silu said:
I have just read georgie strang's analysis of the fall at Burghley. I am some what shocked that there was not one mention of it possibly being her fault. I am slightly at a loss as to why the younger generation of eventers seem to always blame the horse. It sometimes comes across that they forget if it wasnt for their horses they would be no where.
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I think it's very sad that so many folk come out of lurking around about Badminton/Burghley time purely to be so critical and negative. :( Agree with ElleJS and others and stand by my previous posts on this matter.
 
Yes, but saying Rooney played badly is a bit different to someone on here saying that Georgie riding is putting the horse's life in danger and that she shouldn't be riding. That's a pretty hurtful thing to say TBH.

Maybe it's me being a bit more world-weary than some but I just don't understand why people get so worked up about a bad ride round Burghley?! The way people express themselves on here is quite alarmingly involved with something they know nothing about! There are some really awful things out there in the world (a quick jaunt round Nairobi would be worth getting upset about) but this is not my business and I don't sweat it.

Oldvic, I see your point and agree. I'm sure someone high up will have a word as required.
 
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery" (James Joyce)

I'm sure Georgie will learn from her experience and become a better rider as a result.

In her previous blogs she is clearly humbled by her fab horse:

"I couldn't be riding a better, more experienced horse than Master Monarch (Ben) round my first four-star, he is a total hero and owes me nothing. Just to be going there riding such a star is an absolute privilege".

Think she deserves a break!
 
Dont' post very often on here, but felt I had to on this one. I think its ridiculous to stereotype all young riders on one blog that has in my opinion been misinterpreted. I say good on the girl for writing the blog in the first place - goes to show how much our young riders have moved on from previous times. They are now articulate, happy to be interviewed, and willing to partake in things like the blog everyone is discussing. How many of you guys would be willing to do a similiar blog - especially updating it having had a bad fall, concussion and a stud to the head. Never mind the fact that she already had a lot of pressure, riding an amazingly well known horse, in the shadow of those that have ridden it before her.

Good on her I say - for leaving the start box in the first place, being determined and brave enough to get to that level and striving to keep this country a leader in eventing - because lets face it, you could all be sitting here explaining how the sunshine comes out of a particular orafice of hers in five years time!
I particularly loved the You Tube link - showed more about learning than 1000 words could... bet Pippa would have been slated by the armchair critics 10 years ago.

I guess the good thing to come out of this thread is that if the rider hears of it, it will perhaps help her to develop the rhino skin needed to make it to the top in eventing. Just seems a shame that there are more people enjoying picking over her misfortune, than supporting a young person who is doing her best in a tough, tough sport.

I'd be embarrassed to admit how many times I've "missed" a horse at a fence at home, or schooling x country, or in competition. I'm just lucky in that I don't have the eyes of the world on me and have learned from it... .as I'm sure this rider will (and I feel has, as detailed in her blog).
So come on, lets look at the positives of these great events and riders.
 
kit279 said:
Yes, but saying Rooney played badly is a bit different to someone on here saying that Georgie riding is putting the horse's life in danger and that she shouldn't be riding. That's a pretty hurtful thing to say TBH.

Maybe it's me being a bit more world-weary than some but I just don't understand why people get so worked up about a bad ride round Burghley?! .
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Maybe because of what you said in your first paragraph - about putting lives in danger? 4* eventing is very dangerous, we all agree on that.
 
QR - if posters are considered capable of judging a good ride, then why are they incapable of judging a bad one? You can't have it both ways.

Ride at international level, and you have to be open to criticism. It goes with the territory, and if you can't take it then ignore it. Otherwise, you're not cool headed enough to be there in the first place.

As far as forum discussion goes, an unemotional dissection about why a certain combination fell is both informative and educational for those that might not 'see' why it happened. Unfortunately, when people jump in to defend a friend/fellow competitor, it immediately become as if it's personal, and that is wrong.

The more info out there about how difficult and dangerous this sport can be, the better. Far too many seem to mention about a combination 'just' missing.

Which 'just' might cause a fatality if occurring regularly and recklessly.
 
Yes, eventing is dangerous. But not just 4*. You can't have it both ways. You either want to see horses go XC at Burghley or you don't. And if you want to see them go, you WILL see missers from all riders and all horses. Would people be so upset if he wasn't old, I wonder? At the end of the day, I'd be pretty narked to be told what I should and shouldn't do with my own horses by people who knew neither me nor my horses. It's her life, her decisions and her business TBH. As it was last year with ElleJS and HER horse - nobody's business but hers.
 
kit279 said:
At the end of the day, I'd be pretty narked to be told what I should and shouldn't do with my own horses by people who knew neither me nor my horses. It's her life, her decisions and her business TBH. As it was last year with ElleJS and HER horse - nobody's business but hers.
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I don't remember telling ElleJS anything about what to do with her horse? Or anyone else?

And why can't this be discussed factually without it becoming personal - the rider rode it badly - if you don't think that then it's worrying. It's a discussion, not an attack. It's interesting and educational, even possibly helpful to someone, to hear the different views on why it happened. I don't really get the 'attack' mentality?
 
kit279-I didn't see anyone saying that she shouldn't be riding? More that she made a mistake, and should realise that and maybe rushed the whole riding round a 4* bit on a relatively new combination.
TBF-I think that people learn from mistakes but a bit less gung ho attitude is all that people are saying..
And yes-I'd say the same at 9 or 19-makes no difference to me.
People are entitled to their opinions, and just because they are not positive ones does not make them wrong/jealous/armchair riders. Alternatively just because they are positive does not make them right/'not jealous'/etc (in fact imo a lot of the positive ones are more likely to be jealous ones..)
 
On the other thread, someone said she shouldn't ride him in case she kills him:-

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=397927&page=17


equinedriver said:
nullabor

I can only assume that you think running him again with this girl riding is in his best interests????????

I have to be candid in saying that I found her blog post about "crashing" disgusting. She obviously doesn't get it. Tries to blame the horse, and then does somewhat concede that "maybe she could have steadied him a bit". YOU THINK??????? Since when does riding a 4* involve running a horse as absolutely as fast as he can go at every fence out there with absolutely no support from the rider?

It would be nice if ANY of the adults in this situation would think of the best interests of the horse here. If she literally kills him on course somewhere, it will be to late.

I admit the horse looked great but if you are going to put him out there, at least don't put him out there with someone on him that is endangering his life any more than the sport itself does.........
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I thought that was unduly harsh for someone who doesn't know the horse/rider.
 
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