young horse bucking (losing the will)

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1alex1moose

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Hi there,
I recently bought a 3yo warmblood - when i went to try him he walked, trotted and jumped a wee tiny pole on the ground and we also had a small canter (in a force 6 in the snow outdoors!!). since getting him home he has been bucking quite a lot and generally appears to object to having a saddle on. He's had me off a couple of times (once was first time I sat on him at home and the other was after I leant forward to check his girth!). I've bought a new saddle which fits nicely and also had his back seen by a chiropractor and had his teeth done but I lunged him yesterday and he was still having a good buck with his ears back. The chiropractor says he has a lot of tension in his back particularly his quarters. Any suggestions for how to sort this out? He really doesn't like the massages i've been told to do. I've also been offered some help from an experienced rider but I am concerned that the horse will then be fine with this other chap on and still be a pain for me if I get him to ride. I also think half the problem is that the horse likes me being on the floor because if he gets frightened he hides behind me and if I'm not there he gets upset. How can I wean him off this? i always knew he was going to be a bit of a challenge as he's the first young horse that i've had but he is perfect in all ways except getting on... if he doesn't ping you off in the first two minutes then he's fine and settles down. i thought he may be cold backed but I always lunge him first. Am i just being a wimp?? Cookies for getting this far...
 
umm, it sounds to me as if he doesn't think the saddle fits properly, even if the saddler does... at the very least i'd immediately stick a prolite underneath it until you can try something else maybe.
also, can you have someone on the ground for the first 5 mins or so, to wander around with him, give him polos etc, distract him, get him used to having someone else there while you're on top. i always do this when backing.
good luck!
 
Agree with having some-one on the ground with you, especially as he is still a baby. I would also have the saddle checked again, by a different person.
 
Once I'm on and settled and he's walked around more than half a circle he is absolutely fine. Almost no steering or brakes but I don't mind that!! He seems to have a real problem with you moving in the saddle at all or the saddle moving, getting on, checking girth etc.... The saddle I had before this one was too long, so I wonder whether he is just expecting it to hurt - but yesterday he just seemed to be thoroughly annoyed with the whole idea of having a saddle on at all - the one he has now does fit nicely - sits right, doesnt slip and isn't bridging etc... i'll bung a pad under it and see if that helps but I wonder whether i'm going to be better off restarting him from scratch....
 
How long had he been broken in??? Either way - he's still not an 'established' horse, so I'm not sure that at this stage of his development you could expect to just get on and go as such........

Could it be time for him to be turned away for some maturing??
 
i would spend ages standing on the mounting block above him, with someone at the front, and push down all over the saddle, eventually wiggle it about, lift the flaps, faff with the girth and the stirrups, pat him all over the shoulders, withers and bum, then get so you can give him solid hardish pats all over the bum. he mustn't be precious about it, you just have to put the time in until he doesn't mind if you have a bongo-drum party up there! honestly, i was doing this yesterday on tania01's 3 yr old before she got on, using him as bongo drums!
when he's being ridden it's inevitable that sometimes the rider will move in the saddle and he has to just accept the wobble etc and not react to it at all... for instance if a horse spooks violently and you move in the saddle (as most of us will!) it's a nightmare if they then try to get rid of you because of the movement.
he sounds green as grass and i'd go back to square 1 personally... but he really does not sound comfy in that saddle. i'd prob try a different type of girth too, something he thinks is comfier.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How long had he been broken in??? Either way - he's still not an 'established' horse, so I'm not sure that at this stage of his development you could expect to just get on and go as such........

Could it be time for him to be turned away for some maturing??

[/ QUOTE ]

Took the words right out of my mouth!
 
3yo--sorry what do you expect?
You change homes with a baby and he hides behind you--you are all he has got he needs you to be his leader
Soft skin--new saddle, new girth could be nipping
Teething
Please for both your sakes do lots more ground work--long lining, not too much lunging his bones etc a long way from maturity
 
I would strongly recommend getting a 2nd opinion on his saddle. If there is 'tension' under the saddle there is almost certainly something causing it. I would also take it a bit slower, he is just a baby. Just hack him for now with a steady companion or possibly even think about turning him away for a little while
 
He is so young still that I wouldn't expect anything of a just sat on three year old warmblood He may have been backed but he should be in a field being a horse. He also needs time to get used to / bond with you and his new surroundings. You can instill his trust in you by doing some ground work with him.

Personally I would bring him in as a four year old and start his education slowly, warmbloods don't mature quickly IME, ensuring all his tack, teeth etc are checked to make sure he is comfortable.

Don't be in a rush and you should have a nice horse at the end of it.
 
He's nearly 4 so not a total baby... I lunge once or twice a week (huge circles on the end of the line walk mostly and a trot in total about 10-15mins (no canter unless he decides he's off!!)
He gets walked out twice a week in hand for half an hour and is good as gold in traffic / on his own etc... so long as he can hide behind me when things frighten him!
He has no teeth trouble as the dentist only saw him three weeks ago.
I really don't have the space to turn him away or a horse to turn him away with - i was planning on doing a bit with him before I gave him the winter off to grow as I really don't think he has remembered enough / been broken in well enough to turn away at the moment!
I just think I should be able to sit on him and walk and trot around on a big circle on each rein before he's turned away. I also think that unless he has dealt OK with me moving the in the saddle at all then he is going to be difficult to bring back in to work. Am i expecting too much??
 
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Am i expecting too much??

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I'm not sure necessarily too much. But the thing with youngsters is that they are just that youngsters. And you need to think outside the box a little when dealing with them.

I think your inexperience is comming through a bit. Who do you have to help you??

And still not sure how long he's been broken in for.......
 
He was broken in a couple of weeks before I got him ( and to be honest I think it may have been the throw someone on while the horse is walking about when it's already been worn out school of breaking rather than the long rein / lunge etc version!)

He learns really quickly and then forgets again, so I suspect he dealt with everything they threw at him when he was backed and now I'm dealing with him realising what's going on!! He was also very underweight and had terrible feet/teeth etc when I got him so I think some of the leaping about may just be him feeling well!!

We do loads of ground work, inc leading out, clicker training etc so he does get plenty of handling.

At the moment I have got one or two people who will help me at a price - so I'm trying to find as many solutions as I can... think I'm going to have to break open the piggy bank...
 
yes, if he's feeling better now that will make a difference, as will the spring grass coming through, the new yard and new people, etc etc.
first, i really really would try a different saddle. he's saying it's not comfy, as eloquently as possible.
i would not turn him away, i would spend lots of time doing groundwork to get him less precious about stuff happening up there on his back. he needs to learn slowly that nothing's going to hurt etc etc. if the saddle's not comfy, he'll never believe you...
best of luck!
 
Get the back, saddle and teeth checked again. My chap can go a bit off when he is having a growth spurt and his mouth seems to change every couple of months at the moment.

Personally I would be bringing in someone who is an expert with youngsters to assess and get on him. Then continue to come in and monitor and give you support and a plan to work to.

I have done this with my youngster who is my first , since he was 18 months and he is now rising 4. My instructor comes twice a month.

Whilst all youngsters are different, mine is a fairly easy going gypsy cob, he has just established walk in a good outline taking contact and is just starting a few strides of trot in an outline. Canter - well we can do it but are a bit all over the place. I have not considered jumping apart from the odd pole on the lunge for another year.

We are about to embark on our first walk and trot dressage test at the end of the month, which will be interesting.

I have taken a very long time to get to this point - he was bitted at 18 months, gentle ground work from 20 months, sat on at 2 1/2 with 5 - 10 mins walk every other week, then did a little hacking as a three year old with a little trotting and started schooling at 3 1/2. He started canter two months ago. Whenever he was bum up and mouthy, I dropped the ridden work so he has never been ridden when uncomfortable.

My WB took forever to grow up and was a very insecure sort and everything had to be done very slowly and carefully. Some of them are like this, hence why I recommend expert help if you are not 100% sure what you are doing - I am not suggesting you are incapable, but I gather this is your first youngster and as I found out - a hell of a lot different from an older if green horse.
 
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He was broken in a couple of weeks before I got him

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on this statement, chuck him oput in the field for a few weeks at least, let him settle, then start again as if he is an unbacked youngster.
 
Personally i would say maybe the horse needs a break. If he was only just broken in before you got him then i would be inclined to have turned him away for a while just to mature in his head a bit then start reworking him again later on once he's had time to grow a little etc.

We had a horse we got as a 4 yo and he'd been hunted about 3 times a week as a hirling, we don't think he had ever been turned away it was just all work work work and in hindsight we should have chucked him out to grass for a bit. He turned out to be a bit of a loon and it started with rodeo bucking which eventually stopped and then he resorted to rearing. I think had he had time to mature in his mind he would have been a much better, relaxed horse. Take the pressure off would be my first though definitely, some horses just cannot cope with too much too soon.
 
youve said you cant turn him away so i would be doing a lot of ground work. being broken in a couple of weeks cant have been good. do you know these people that broke him in? i would be long reining him everywhere. also if he is sore on his back i wouldnt be getting on at all. did you get him vet checked?
 
My 3yr old used to trample me like Scooby Do when she was scared, so on that basis, if I were you, I'd forget the riding for the mo, and concentrate on establishing your partnership from the ground.

Mines just started understanding the long reining after a few false starts, and last night we bended round blocks, walked between poles and practiced reverse (that went all over the place!) and walked over plastic and paper feed sacks and trotting poles.

She wouldn't have done that even a couple of months ago in hand. Would've been scared and jumped on my foot!

A new home for an unestablished youngster is a scary place to be.

Do the ground work, leave the saddle off for a bit and then reintroduce it to your long reining/lungeing/ walking out in hand, so the saddle becomes part of the furniture and a means to having fun, interesting times.

It's possible the saddle isn't the problem as such, just that your horse knows that means he's on his own (as you're up top)
 
This is exactly how mine reacted when we got her home. I had everything checked & the physio that came to see her diagnosed the equivalent of a slipped disc in a human & uneven muscle build up due to being broken too young, not ridden correctly & not left to mature.

I was advised to turn her away for a year/18 months & let her be. Just handle her, do groundwork etc.

I brought her back into work after just over a year, starting with gentle lunging etc. A couple of months later she was being ridden & has not bucked since.

I would get everything checked, saddle, back etc as possible. As soon as mine had a rider on she would fight the bit & as she was such a genuine pony, didn't buck until her back had got quite tender. She actually ended up bolting with a rider on the the third ride once we'd got her home.

Please do get everything thoroughly checked as he sounds almost identical to how mine behaved. She was near on the same age as yours as well.
 
Thank you all for the advice - i thought i might be asking a bit much and my suspicions are confirmed!!

I have just enquired about moving to a yard with all day turnout in a herd (he's currently in a patch on his own for just 4 hours a day
frown.gif
) He'll also be kept where he can see and touch other horses all the time rather than where he is at the moment where he only has one horse he can touch noses with which tries to kill him every time he goes near it!!

I'm going to go back to groundwork and forget about riding for at least a few more visits from the chiropractor. I think the stables I'm at has not helped as I seem to get asked every day whether I'm riding or not!!

Thanks again,
Alex
 
Sorry to hear about your problems, it will no doubt be the combination of what everyone has said, spring grass so there's lots of energy and because he's only young and green he'll display this in naughty tendencies like having a bronco session, a new owner so he'll be testing the boundaries, his age so he's bound to daft at times, a new home so he wont be in his comfort zone, could be cutting some teeth so he'll be feeling moody and sore, perhaps some discomfort in his back if your saddle is not totally ok for him which is why its good idea to have his back done and have a few experts look at his saddle, so your doing the right thing there.

Problem is they can learn from their behaviour and if its none of the above he's learnt he can get you off, my other horse when he was 3 had a spell like this. Do the all the health checks first, teeth, back, pelvic area, girth area etc and then start by process of elimination, diet, ground work, attitude to work.

Most importantly (and I'm not saying you are but thought I'd mention it all the same) the biggar the horse, the slower you should take it with there schooling and education. Little and often, a good 5 to 10 minutes every other day is better than a good 30 minutes a day every day because there minds will blow...not all but some will.

People are that pushed these days to get them muscled up and getting them working correctly at such a young age and wonder why they suddenly start with problems. Keep it short, fun and finish on good note, even if it means getting on him for a minute, not walking anywhere and then dismounting, lots of praise so your horse does not feel pressured into lots of work too soon which might of been the case with his previous owner, he's got lots of growing up to do and his social skills with other horses and yourself will not be up to scratch neither and you need to have all the time in the world to produce him on, he needs to think, ok I'll accept you, if you accept what I'm capable off.

I've got a 3yr WB and only ride him 3 to 4 times a week and only do short schooling sessions, and 5 minutes of it is warming up on a real long rein and when take his bridle off, his eyes roll back and he does so much yawning, so its very tiring mentally not just physically.

I'm sure you be fine in a couple of months time, good luck with him because all this will be worth it in the end.
smile.gif
 
Definately get him moved and personally I would take a step back and give him time to settle and work on the ground establishing a good relationship. I found limited t/o with my WB = time to launch!

Sounds like he has had too much too quickly done with him and no time to think about it. Not saying my way is correct, but I personally feel the way I have done Chancer (if you have the luxury of lots of time) where he does a little and then gets time to think about it really works well.

Good luck and update us with how things go.
 
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