Young horse bucking rodeo style - what to do!

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Kezza

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Sorry it’s a long one! I’ve had my new horse for 4 months, he’s just turned 6. He was broken just over a year ago by his previous owner and subsequently trained by a very good rider to novice/elementary level dressage before I got him. I have no idea how experienced his previous owner was in breaking him. He was gelded in May. He’s a generally a laid back, lovely, friendly horse.

He was ridden a lot in draw reins (standard kit in some high class dressage yards – I won’t mention where he was trained) and needs to build up his back muscles behind the saddle which we’re doing slowly. He is andalusian so naturally uphill and soft in the mouth.

The problem:

After having had him a month I bought him a new dressage saddle as he’d been using one which didn’t fit very well, I had it fitted by a VERY reputable master saddler and switched the girth to a leather one. I took him into a new arena and he was “unsettled”. I warmed him up and then cantered him and after a few strides he threw in 2 rodeo style broncs. I stayed on luckily but it scared me. I persevered and eventually cantered him again and he was fine for the rest of the schooling session.

I switched him back to the original Kieffer neoprene girth I had borrowed from my friend and he was fine and has continued to be fine until last week. He’s been having chiropractic treatment by a McTimoney trained, well known chiropractor who noticed he is a bit sore on his right side through the lumbar region. She is not overly worried and wants him on 3 month intervals, he’s had 3 sessions so far. I am also using an equissage on him and doing some stretching exercises to help build up his back. I am also teaching him long and low as he doesn’t find stretching down natural.

Last week I bought him a new girth, a wintec one. Half way through my lesson he spooked in canter and started bucking me rodeo style round the arena, this went on for some time and I just rode it out till he eventually stopped. I lost confidence again but pushed myself to eventually canter him again on both reins and he was fine.

My very experienced and capable friend rode him the next day and she’d only been on him seconds when he started to rodeo buck her and she came off after the 5th one. She got straight back on, he tried again and she sent him forwards round the arena at canter until he settled. He continued to work lovely after that and no bucks.

I changed him back into his previous neoprene girth and all has been fine. However, I lunged him last night and a bird in the tree spooked him and off he went rodeo bucking round the arena. I am now concerned at getting on him tonight, sadly my friend is away and I must ride him for the saddler as he’s checking the new saddle for me as I want to rule pain out.

The vet checked him yesterday and agreed he is a little sore through the lumbar region but that I should continue the long and low stretching and hacking etc to help build the muscles up and didn’t think it would be causing the bucking episodes. We agreed that we thought it might be the girth pinching him as he’s quite sensitive.

My question is this: If the saddler says the saddle is fine tonight and the chiropractor and vet say he’s fine, how do I train him out of this rodeo bucking?? And if he does it again to me, should I try a one rein stop or push him forwards? Should I lift his head?

His teeth were checked in May and were fine and are being checked again Sept.

He was allowed to rodeo buck on the lunge during his training before I got him and he still does this although a bit less now as I’ve kept his lunge sessions to nice quiet sessions. I will be lunging him before I ride him tonight but I’m not sure it’s good for him to be allowed to do it on the lunge either but how do I stop him?
 
hi hun

hope your ok !! very hard to know really though gadget was like this and i found actually not lunging him better !!

Also for you confidence maybe keep it to walk and trot to?? not sure really what to recommend its hard - have you tried a fluffy on the girth i found this helped with gadget xx

also what dressage saddle did you buy is it a lot heavier than your wintec?? xx
 
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hi hun

hope your ok !! very hard to know really though gadget was like this and i found actually not lunging him better !!

Also for you confidence maybe keep it to walk and trot to?? not sure really what to recommend its hard - have you tried a fluffy on the girth i found this helped with gadget xx

also what dressage saddle did you buy is it a lot heavier than your wintec?? xx

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do you know what, I lunged him the day before he did it to me last week and he did it on the lunge, prior to that he hadn't done it on the lunge for ages but then again, I also hadn't lunged him in a while. The chiro wants me to lunge him in the pessoa to help build up his back muscles. I haven't changed saddles recently, only girths. He is in a bates isabelle werth saddle which was the only saddle to really fit out of many as he's got high withers and a sloping back. The trainer was using a leather saddle witha rear riser so not ideal. Not tried a sheepskin girth sleeve yet. What worries me is that the girth might be slipping back as his tummy doesn't hang down, it slopes up if you get what I mean so perhaps leather and plastic slip whereas neoprene doesn't? So I thought perhaps sheepskin might slip as well? I'm really upset as he is my dream horse and a buck I can live with but rodeo I can't ... even though he's only done it 3 times in 4 months, it's not acceptable imo x
 
What does he wear underneath the saddle??

Are you just using his old saddle now? Maybe he genuinly doesn't like the feel of the new one and could be a little cold backed.

Or he's just a git, that needs to go hunting to get rid of all that excess energy!
 
I'd try lots of combinations of all the equipment you use - old girth+new saddle, new saddle+old girth etc etc etc.

Only because my OH lovingly bought our moody mare a humane girth thing, she hated it and got really stroppy. Changed back to the old girth and she was fine!

It might also be that he's a little s**t though, and in which case I have no advice. Well done for sitting though!! xxx
 
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What does he wear underneath the saddle??

Are you just using his old saddle now? Maybe he genuinly doesn't like the feel of the new one and could be a little cold backed.

Or he's just a git, that needs to go hunting to get rid of all that excess energ!

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I changed saddle 4 months ago. It's his girth I changed again recently. He wears a variety of saddle cloths under his saddle. I think he does suffer with girth pain but my question is more about how to deal with it once he starts doing a rodeo bronc session as I am currently just sitting there waiting for him to stop, terrified! Thanks
 
When he's broncing, heels down and ride him forward and try not to let him get his head down!

BTW I cant sit for poo, but I'm just reciting what people said in a previous post!

xxxx
 
[ QUOTE ]
When he's broncing, heels down and ride him forward and try not to let him get his head down!

BTW I cant sit for poo, but I'm just reciting what people said in a previous post!

xxxx

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but because he kind of spooks and then goes into one I worry that if I drive him forwards he'll end up bolting if that makes sense? Your natural instinct is to pull on the reins to try to halt ... x
 
I would push him forward, its never nice, had a conversation with my trainier (pro event rider and BHSI) who said the same thing - will scare you sh*tless but forward is the best thing.

Sounds like he doesnt like saddle either!
 
Lol I know exactly how you feel - the other day I got bolted with and I was pulling like mad even though I KNOW and I was thinking it at the time that I should be releasing his head.

I think the basic theory is that a buck is just a canter stride in the air, and also remember when they bolt they're just going really fast - you can sit for walk/trot/canter so its just like a really fast canter (I am aware this is easier said than done btw). If I were you (and could find the confidence) I would sit back, try and canter a circle or whatever and then when he's not bucking like mad would aim for halt.

If you're in a school, just think there isn't really anywhere he can go even if he does bolt. Different when you're out though I know xxx
 
Well your doing all the right things, having things checked so your going in the right direction to eventually resolving things but, please please double check things, just because one saddle fitter says something is ok (which it may well be in your case) but their not always right, same goes with a chiropractor.

It could be that he indeed has been sore and its built up to the point where he flips out, saddle or working in the school = pain so it may be that he's not really in pain as such to the point where he throwing he's avoiding pain with your new saddle or girth combination but needs to work through it, because he's expecting it to cause him pain, however if it is totally out of character and he is also doing this without the saddle on, say for example when your lunging him etc (so breaking out of a walk and asking for more skeletal movement) and you are sure its not just high spirits then I would have him looked at again and your saddle checked again by someone else (just for safe measure).

I had my saddle checked by a master saddler and despite my concerns (which is why I got him out) and being told it fitted, I continued to use it for another month..again I was not convinced, his behaviour showed classic signs of back trouble and had the chiropractor out to double check, she found problems (when other people were telling me he was just being naughty) which at times I do admit he can be, hence it can be difficult to tell between the two but she confirmed that the saddle didn't fit and that the saddle had caused the sore area at the back of the saddle, which in turn caused him to have these bucking sessions again like a rodeo horse like you are stating (even when lunging him with his tack on), which he'd calm down once he'd got it out of his system, like your horse, but this you see caused further problems to his pelvis area, so it escalated into something else because of the way he reacted to the first problem.

Anyway sorry I have waffled on but I think you get my point.
smile.gif
 
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I would push him forward, its never nice, had a conversation with my trainier (pro event rider and BHSI) who said the same thing - will scare you sh*tless but forward is the best thing.

Sounds like he doesnt like saddle either!

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but then he's been fine in the saddle whilst I've been using my friends neoprene girth.
 
So sorry to hear you have problems with your Andy.

Andy's are super sensitive and if I were you I would stick with the neoprene girth, I ride both mine in them and my big mare especially is noticeably happier in it, it could well be that the leather girth slips back but I also think that the kieffer neoprene girths are very much softer and therefore more comfortable for them.

Your chiro says he was a little sore through his lumber region, some Andy's have a minimal pain threshold, which coupled with their sensitivity can make even the slightest discomfort cause a reaction (am going through a similar thing with my 6yo at the moment) so don't rule out back pain and continue with the pessoa to help build up his muscles.

Keep at it, you will not regret it, think positive, once you have gotten through this you will have found your horse of a lifetime I am sure.
 
imo you need to ensure he 100% is not in any pain from the saddle/girth/back issues before you get back on him.

if there is even the slightest niggle that is setting him off, you will only be reaffirming that being ridden hurts and turns the occasion episode into a habit.

once you are totally sure he is not in pain, you have to ride forwards out of rodeo style bucks. horses can buck much bigger and more violently the slower they are going so keep your head and hands up and try to keep him going forwards.

the natural reaction is to pull the horse up but it won't help in the short or long run so i am afraid you have to do what feels totally wrong and ride him forwards.
 
Does he immediately react to the new girths or is he OK for a few days then chuck a fit? If he reacts straight away, then I'd say that's likely it and he's particular about which girth, but if its more random than that I'd be more inclined to think he's being a git.

I'd try more work, less food, good instructor, etc, and see how you go on.
 
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Does he immediately react to the new girths or is he OK for a few days then chuck a fit? If he reacts straight away, then I'd say that's likely it and he's particular about which girth, but if its more random than that I'd be more inclined to think he's being a git.

I'd try more work, less food, good instructor, etc, and see how you go on.

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immediate e.g. first time of riding in it after about 20 mins and canter number 3, he spooked and then off we went! Next eve, my mate got on (she's about 3 stone heavier than me), she hitched the girth up one hole tighter than I had the eve before and off he went, rodeo broncing and off she came ...

I am so confused as chiro says some pain but to carry on making him stretch long and low and ridden work and hacking and he's been fine except for these 2 girth changes. BUT he does like to bronc on the lunge. I even used the neoprene girth last night on the lunge roller and he still did it. Perhaps I should try lunging him with nothing but his bridle and see if he broncs then??
 
when he does this, does he spook then buck?

Am just wondering if he is spooking poss out of naughtiness then tweaking something which triggers him to let rip.
 
[ QUOTE ]
when he does this, does he spook then buck?

Am just wondering if he is spooking poss out of naughtiness then tweaking something which triggers him to let rip.

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yep, he kind of does a half hearted spook and shoots forwards, I hold the rein and he goes into a bronc sesh. Having said that when my mate rode him last week he immediately started broncing rodeo style and certainly wasn't spooked. And as I said, all 3 times he was not in his neoprene girth.
 
Have you bobbed on him bare back and rode him to see if it is anything to do with the girth and not just his back and just walked him (as an experiment). Horses that are fearful of pain do tend to be on edge more which causes them to spook more, sounds silly but I grant you its true.
 
just read you last reply, we have a girthy mare, you have to do her up in stages otherwise she has a tendency to panic- this normally is just shifting back and forwards and adopting a wide stance. (she went over in stable once, I was more careful after that) We always do the girth up then walk her a bit (not far just a bit) to get her to move off before mounting. It sounds like friend doing the girth tighter triggered him.

I would be really tempted to use a sheepskin on him, we use nuumeds on both of ours.
 
Might be interesting to see what he did if you didn't hold the rein? after his half hearted spook, if it is not a mega spook and you had completely loose reins he might find that highly confusing and do nothing. - use a neck strap if you try it!

From your descriptions I just wonder if he is generally very sensitive so after a spook if you loose your balance a bit or something then he is reacting to that.
 
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Have you bobbed on him bare back and rode him to see if it is anything to do with the girth and not just his back and just walked him (as an experiment). Horses that are fearful of pain do tend to be on edge more which causes them to spook more, sounds silly but I grant you its true.

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that's just it, he isn't spooky at all, he's well chilled. He just occasionally spooks.
 
imo from reading your post i think that the saddle no longer fits the horse!
as he is 6 he will be changing shapes anyway, and as you are doing all this work to develop back muscles he will be changing rapidly
smile.gif


I would get saddler out again to check saddle fit!
 
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Might be interesting to see what he did if you didn't hold the rein? after his half hearted spook, if it is not a mega spook and you had completely loose reins he might find that highly confusing and do nothing. - use a neck strap if you try it!

From your descriptions I just wonder if he is generally very sensitive so after a spook if you loose your balance a bit or something then he is reacting to that.

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yes I agree that I think I lost my balance and he reacted with the bronc and that he reacted with a bronc to the other girths as he wasn't comfortable. So it;s his "thing" to bronc when he's un-settled. How can I de-sensitise him to that? Get people to wave bags around when he's on the lunge lol? And also how about de-sensitising his girth area, how do I do that? tickle him with a whip whilst walking him along under his belly or something?
 
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imo from reading your post i think that the saddle no longer fits the horse!
as he is 6 he will be changing shapes anyway, and as you are doing all this work to develop back muscles he will be changing rapidly
smile.gif


I would get saddler out again to check saddle fit!

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saddler is coming tonight. Also he did it not long after having this saddle fitted. I have no idea if he was doing it in the other saddle prior to me buying him but I have my suspicions which tell me yes he was ...
 
oh good
smile.gif
may also be worth trying a different saddler for a 2nd opinion as well
smile.gif


The new saddle you got for him may not have fitted either though, always worth bearing in mind
smile.gif


when you run your nails down his back is he sore in any region?
does he rodeo when you are with other horses?
 
he's done it without another horse twice and once with another horse. yes he is a bit sore over lumbar region which is what the chiro is treating him for and is why I am to work on building his back up using long and low, pessoa and hacking and stregthening work. Chiro thinks the draw reins may have contributed. Of course, he could've been ridden in draw reins to help prevent the broncing for all I know! They did lunge him before they got on almost all the time and as I said, they allowed him to go round broncing on the lunge, they said it's cause he likes being lunged so much. err yeah whatever!!!
 
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Might be interesting to see what he did if you didn't hold the rein? after his half hearted spook, if it is not a mega spook and you had completely loose reins he might find that highly confusing and do nothing. - use a neck strap if you try it!

From your descriptions I just wonder if he is generally very sensitive so after a spook if you loose your balance a bit or something then he is reacting to that.

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Totally agree, as I said in my last post, these horses are very very sensitive and a rider losing balance is enough to set them off.
 
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