Young horse bucking rodeo style - what to do!

Horrible experience for you - I have had a bad fall which knocked my confidence. I hope you are OK.

Totally different approach - does your horse ever get a change of scenery i..e does he just school in the menage? or do you hack him? I have an old horse (now 30) who has only ever dumped me in the arena.
 
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Might be interesting to see what he did if you didn't hold the rein? after his half hearted spook, if it is not a mega spook and you had completely loose reins he might find that highly confusing and do nothing. - use a neck strap if you try it!

From your descriptions I just wonder if he is generally very sensitive so after a spook if you loose your balance a bit or something then he is reacting to that.

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Totally agree, as I said in my last post, these horses are very very sensitive and a rider losing balance is enough to set them off.

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I thought they were meant to be placid, gentle, laid back horses lol. He is all those things but extremely sensitive too it seems! Of the 5 I tried, 2 of them bolted, one with me and another with my friend! I almost changed my mind about getting an andalusian!!
 
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Horrible experience for you - I have had a bad fall which knocked my confidence. I hope you are OK.

Totally different approach - does your horse ever get a change of scenery i..e does he just school in the menage? or do you hack him? I have an old horse (now 30) who has only ever dumped me in the arena.

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yes he used to be stabled 24/7 when he was a stallion, he is now out for 12 hours a day and hacked once a week. Thanks, I feel like I'm right back to where I was when I first got him, scared to ride him but beating myself up for being so OTT! I mean I stayed on didn't I??!! I've ridden him numerous times in the last 4 months and he hasn't done it much has he!! I had just forgotten about the first time he did it to me and there he goes and does it again, just as we were really getting on with our dressage.
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Of course, he could've been ridden in draw reins to help prevent the broncing for all I know! They did lunge him before they got on almost all the time and as I said, they allowed him to go round broncing on the lunge, they said it's cause he likes being lunged so much. err yeah whatever!!!

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HE'S A GIT.
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I hope you can sort it.
 
When you have ruled out pain.......

Just a random thought but if he has had draw reins on for a while and now he doesn’t he might just be feeling the freedom in canter. If he struggles to take the contact low and forward then there is a chance he is holding himself behind the vertical therefore in the canter the back end is free to do what it wants ie buck.

I agree with everyone else and i know it is hard but you need to put your leg on and sit deep, lift your hands and ride him from your leg to your hand if you can get his back end underneath him then he wont be able to buck.

You must get him to carry his weight on his hocks if they are working then to bucks will stop, make him work his a*se off then he wont have the energy to through his toys out of the pram.

A friends horse hated her moving in the saddle so if he unseated her he would kick off till she hit the deck, this might be a little to with what you are experiencing if he is spooking then bucking it could be when your weight moves in the saddle. It might be worth you doing some exercised in the halt like touching him behind the saddle and leaning forward and back till he gets use to the weight movement.

Good luck!
 
yes he is behind the vertical, he was overbent when I first got him and I have been working to sort this out. Do you have any tips for the canter if he goes overbent? And yes I will get my competent friend to try the touching him when she's on board. thanks
 
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Might be interesting to see what he did if you didn't hold the rein? after his half hearted spook, if it is not a mega spook and you had completely loose reins he might find that highly confusing and do nothing. - use a neck strap if you try it!

From your descriptions I just wonder if he is generally very sensitive so after a spook if you loose your balance a bit or something then he is reacting to that.

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Totally agree, as I said in my last post, these horses are very very sensitive and a rider losing balance is enough to set them off.

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I thought they were meant to be placid, gentle, laid back horses lol. He is all those things but extremely sensitive too it seems! Of the 5 I tried, 2 of them bolted, one with me and another with my friend! I almost changed my mind about getting an andalusian!!

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They are gentle and trainable, but, and it is a big but, they are hotbloods and as such can also be a real handful. They are also extremely sensitive and, whilst that sensitivity makes them trainable it can also cause real problems.

I love my PREs and would not have anything else, but placid and easy they aint I'm afraid. I would put my granny on Sirena now but between 4 and 7 she was a real hothead and would capriolle unasked at the drop of a hat, if I had not ridden her forward through it she would still be doing it now. My younger mare is 6 and is typically sensitive, her forte is to jump up and down on the spot and then buck for England - I HAVE to ride her forward through it or this will keep happening, I did, of course, have her back, teeth and saddle checked and all are fine, she is sooo sensitive it even matters what numnah she is wearing and I would not ride her in anything other than the kieffer girth.
 
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what numnah's do you use and can you come and sort my boy out please lol! He's ever so handsome ...
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LOL! I have to sort my mare out first!

I found the gently numnah by HKM (got it on ebay) is what suits Lluna best will get you a link


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HKM-GENTLY-GP-JUMP...34.c0.m14.l1262

They come in all sorts of colours and have a soft felt underside, I have the dressage one - which reminds me, I should get another one!
 
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yes he is behind the vertical, he was over bent when I first got him and I have been working to sort this out. Do you have any tips for the canter if he goes over bent? And yes I will get my competent friend to try the touching him when she's on board. thanks

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You must ride forward, my lad will come behind the vertical and back off the leg which allows the back end to buck. I would lift my hands carry them slightly further forward and slight wider apart then push with your seat and leg. My lad is also very light in the hand so you want to keep that but you must not get confused, he can be light in the hand which is good but he can also be behind the contact which is bad. Don’t draw your hands back.

Keep your hands still and give him a forward contact to go into so that when you put your legs on it doesn’t all escape out of the front door.

Hope that helps.
 
not had chance to read all of the replies but if it really is just when you use a different girth, what about one with a neoprene sleeve? I have 2 dressage girths like that which i have to use for one of mine who has a really sensative girth region. He has a weird shape down there and girths can so easy rub him, i have no probs with the neoprene sleeved girths.
 
Just read the whoe thread and here is the picture i have- A young stallion was kept confined for 24 hour a day. When exercised he was ridden in draw reins. Horse goes overbent. Was also ridden in a saddle that didnt fit, so riser pad was used. Gelded at some point (?), new owner (OP) now turns him out but he is sensitive to girth changes. Has a new saddle, a bates. Hope this is all correct?

My answer to all this- 1)The horse is bound to have issues from previous management, which is totally innappropriate for any horse.
2) Being ridden in draw reins and an overbent outline means the horse has probably never gone forward properly. If he was physically too immature to work in an 'outline' (even a crap one) then he will have sore muscles. This is backed up by broncing, which if a horse is going forward he will find this hard to do. If a horse is overbent he will find it easier.
3) The horses back was probably sore from an ill fitting saddle. A riser pad just moves pressure from one place to another. it is not an answer.
4) The girth could be a result of 2 and 3. an uncomfortable horse will try to move in a way to produce more comfort and hence strain more areas. Kieffer neoprene girths are nice and wide, so good for pressure dispersal and hence this may have been the most comfortable. He may however have a sore sternum because of 2 and 3.
5) A sore horse becaus of 2/3/4 that is kept in will not be able to ease stiffness discomfort by rolling and walking. Horses are not physically designed to live in a 12x12 area.
6) The saddle doesnt fit. If he needed a riser pad on another saddle i very much doubt that a wintec/bates will fit. They have banana shaped trees and sit off the back (at the rear of the saddle) on most horses, let alone one with a sloping back. To test this, girth it up without a numnah in the correct place behind the shoulder. ge someone to lead the horse for you in a straight line and on a circle on each rein. look to see if there is gapping at the rear of the saddle. If it fits it should touch the back all the way along.

All in all you have inherited a horse with issues because of the way he has been looked after/trained previously. These have been brought out by circumstances/his saddle.

This is turning into an essay but for those who have said the horse is a git, i would strongly disagree. Horses cant speak, they can only communicate through behaviour. This horse is trying to communicate something and it is up to the owner to find out what. This doesnt make it a git! That is an easy answer when you dont know/cant be bothered to understand horse behaviour. It is behaving this way because of previous human influence/pain/discomfort/current feelings.

Good luck OP, i hope you get to the bottom of it. You obviously care and i would advise going back to the beginning with training and getting your saddle checked again.
 
Fair play teddyt, but that's kind of what I meant in a long-winded but clearer way. This horse has lots more issues than the wrong girth and it had them with the last owners.

I'm sure you're right that it's not the horse's fault its screwed up, but screwed up it is, and I'm not sure the OP signed up for a screwed up horse.
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Hiya, I don't normally reply to this type of post but it sounds like you are totally doing all the right things so I thought I'd tell you about my youngster- she started behaving oddly in the last 2 weeks, spooky sharp- and then bronked in the field and out hacking- all abnormal behaviour. My Mctimothy lady comes out every 2 months or more often as needed (horse has SI damage) and I was riding in a treeless whilst waiting for my new Strada saddle to arrive.
SO called physio who came as ASAP- horse must have got cast had several misalignments throughout spine and pelvis, sore from treeless (expected with my sensitive backed horse but I'd only been hacking for 5 weeks in it!) and due to dye from a previous numnah dyeing her skin, the dye had reacted with sunlight (I'd not had a flyrug on her for 2 weeks due to no flys) causing swelling and extreme sensitvity (I didn't notice- bad me).
Anyway, what I am trying to say is keep persisting- my horse is extremely sensitive (TBXWB laid back but thin skinned!) she is only 5 I backed her last year and I am currently waiting for my 4th saddle.
Play around with girths and numnahs, get physio to recheck and if you are seriously not happy with your saddle give the Strada saddles a bit of your time http://www.stradasaddles.co.uk/ I cannot wait until mine comes- my horse is not hard to fit (shes not high withered or narrow) and yet not saddle seems to fit her except these- I rode in one with no girth and didn't move- walk, trot and canter.
Good luck and I hope you solve your problem.
 
Oh- also I just had a thought- have you tried using a human back massager ( you can buy from Lloyds pharmacy for a about £4) and massaged his girth area specifically- maybe benificial before girthing up? I have one which I used when physio reccommended after she seemed tight in thar area (prob because I had over girthed her) anyway- it worked a treat!
 
Oh, sorry and another thought- I think Dozzie is refering to this aswell (I haven't read whole thread) but bucking can cause tighness/ misallignments in lumbar regions as well as tighness/ misallignments in lumbar regions causing bucking if you know what I mean!
 
From a person who got a 6 year old with broncing problems due to back/hip misalignments i can fully sympathise. It is horrible, frustrating and time consuming. I never got to the bottom of why my mare did it, believe it was many contributing factors but i did my best in keeping her sound and out of pain and towards the end we started to get past the bronc sessions and she learnt work didn't hurt, but it was a long journey.
She too would spook at something, snatch the rein, then give you five good bucks, drop her shoulder and spin 180. For such a clumsy, long green mare she sure was perfect and athletic in this department. Unfortunately it took away all of my confidence so i know how you feel.
I believe hers was all pain related. This was her form of escape. Through pain checks, backmen, dentist, good saddle and good schooling we managed 9 months with one bucking session. Luckily she caught me in a bad mood and i stubbornly stayed on and rode through it. After that good as gold although unfortunately i then had to retire her due to foot problems (yes everything that could go wrong did!
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So on a scientific level i can't help although i do tend to agree with Teddyt. But on a friendly level i really hope you get sorted and don't lose heart
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don't really have advice- there has been loads of great advice here- but just wanted to say that i don't think he's being naughty and i think you are doing all the right things to get to the bottom of it. my 4 year old is very sensitive and has rodeoed me off a fair few times whilst we were breaking him in. i put it down to him being nervy and a bit cold backed, but reading this i'm wondering if its a bit of girth pain/sensitivity and am off to investigate neoprene girths. the thing for me is that i've been able to work through this with my guy before it becomes an issue- it might just take you a little longer to break a problem but persevere! i think from what he's telling you he likes the neoprene girth so stick with that.

i'd keep pessoaing him but maybe avoid lungeing him before you ride if you notice a link to the bucking. perhaps take him for a walk in hand first (tacked up) so he can warm up a bit and feel saddle and girth on but without rider's weight- and you can gradually do up the girth without being on him. once he does start a bucking session then you need to get him as forwards as possible- its hard but i would rather do the wall of death than be rodeoed off!!
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good luck, i'm sure you'll crack it, he sounds lovely, i love Andys!
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thanks so much for your advice and encouragement. Saddle is still a perfect fit which I expected. Saddler also rates the kieffer neoprene girths so will stick to that. Saddler said something interesting which is that he should not have been lunged with his tack on and no rider as saddles are designed to be weighted by a rider and can move without a rider on board, also the fact that they allowed the stirrups to drop and hit his sides was wrong. No wonder he bronced on the lunge saddler says. I am to try lunging him with nothing but his bridle and see if he broncs. I rode him last night and he was lovely. I am really getting there with encouraging him to go long and low and stretch his nose forwards. I got a lovely big trot at the end of our schooling session last night. I am not using spurs for now as I'm pretty sure that is what made him bronc for longer last time as I no doubt dug my legs into him where I was gripping for dear life! I used a whip instead last night which he accepts to back up my leg aids. The saddler thought his lumbar region and sacrioilliac (sp?) were much better than when he first fitted the new saddle back in June so I am doing something right! He has very sensitive skin in general and when I had him vetted the vet made a note of that as he spotted a few dermatitis type patches. He's chestnut and very red and apparently it's common for red horses to be even more sensitive than greys. I have a lesson tonight so fingers crossed I get my canter back to how it was as I was backing off when asking for canter last night and feel like a sack of potatoes despite me thinking, relax, relax!! I adore him and was in tears last week as I was so shocked that he'd done it again as it's so out of character for him and I was so worried I had hurt him some how. I am keeping everything crossed that it was the girth. x
 
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