Young horse bucking

SEL

SEL

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Only yesterday I was thinking this was getting out of hand and I needed a body protector. Should have acted yesterday because I got well & truly splatted this morning and am sitting here with my back in spasm and a cocktail of drugs from the GP.

The horse concerned is my EPSM / PSSM horse so there is underlying pain issues, but she's pretty well managed these days and the bucks tend to come when she's feeling well rather than sore. I THINK this is young horse enthusiasm but they are massive, come out of nowhere and have an evil mid air twist. First time off this morning because the nasty horse eating deer didn't go away & I didn't manage to sit 3 in a row, but I'm struggling to know how to manage them (plus feeling a bit shocked if honest - adrenaline got me back on and back to the yard, but I was in agony driving home so went & collapsed at the GPs)

So WWYD? My yard owner is a bit of a cowboy and says to gallop it out of her but she tends to buck when she wants her own way with something. She doesn't really understand the aids for canter yet so when I ask her we get carthorse trot. She bucks when SHE wants to go faster or when she's feeling fresh. I'm thinking that if I then let her go faster she'll learn to buck and run - which would just make things worse.

Our indoor school is very small so not really suitable for a freelance instructor and although I've got plans in place to buy a trailer that's not until Xmas. I do need someone on the ground, but any thoughts in the meantime? I won't put anyone else on her because she's very unpredictable and I'd rather it was me in pain than someone else!
 
She finds lunging too hard - that is the PSSM affecting her muscles. Loose schooling she does understand but she's not great in there with a rider on her back at more than a trot. The surface isn't great and it's small so not ideal for a draft x with a muscle disorder. I was hoping that straight lines outside would be more effective. She does get that I want her to go faster but the legs just don't seem to coordinate themselves into canter! Following other horses is ok but she finds it all very exciting and that's when the bucking starts.

Technically she was lightly backed / sat on 2 years ago (she's 6), but she was passed to my yard owner last year where she promptly threw herself over on top of his groom whilst being lunged. I took her on (she was going to be shot) & restarted her last summer and within a few weeks realised there was something amiss. Time off, vets involved etc & PSSM diagnosed in Feb this year so she's at the stage I would expect a recently back 4 yo to be at really - albeit one who does have some underlying issues and has seen nothing of life outside.
 
She sounds very green, unbalanced and probably doesn't fully understand what's being asked of her. If she can be loose schooled then she should be able to lunge but not on a 20 circle. You can lunge round the outside of the school, it just requires you to move about a lot more. It would be the easiest way to teach voice aids that can be used whilst ridden, so she understands what you want. Should also help her learn to balance a bit on her own. Good luck!
 
She's definitely unbalanced - bodywork every 6 weeks at the moment to try and free up her right hand side.

Think you're right - bit more ground work & focussing on canter transitions. Can't imagine my poor back will be sitting in a saddle for a fair few days anyway.

Bucking this morning was out of a trot when she spooked & took advantage. Nice to have her feeling good after all these months. Just wish she could express herself differently!
 
Hia, your horse sounds very similar to the issue i am having with my mare at the moment minus the pssm. She is 6 and originally an rspca rescue who then went to a home as a 3/4 year old where she was mainly hacked but did very little till i got her 6 months ago. She has trouble with canter ridden aswell as on the lunge which appears to be because she is unbalanced but she is a horse that likes to be upfront on a hack and if someone is infront of her she bucks into the upward transition so i'm guesssing a mixture of panic at getting left behind and being unbalanced. I agree with others , i am lunging but using the whole school as 20m circles are hard for an unbalanced horse, i am also getting an instructor ( last one was unreliable) to help through the issue before it becomes a learned behaviour. Luckily mine's a hefty cob so her bucks aren't that big but she is doing them more often, usually to get her own way and get to the front so i really need to nip it in bud now. Hope you are on the mend soon and it hasn't knocked your confidence
 
Mine is a draft cross Appy, but I'm thinking the athletic Appy genes are kicking in for the bucks - they're huge! She comes up in front too and launches into them for added power. I've seen her do it in the field, but she never did it under saddle until she got more confident and started feeling well. Lucky me.

I want to nip this in the bud because apart from my inability to sit them it's bolshy behaviour and she needs better manners. I've stopped a lot of her other behaviours but if I can't ride her through this then I'm not sure how to correct it!
 
When did you last have her saddle checked? Young horses change shape so quickly that the saddle could be uncomfortable as you ask for a transition.
I know you said you man age her PSSM but what do you feed her on? Could that be causing a reaction/ making g her feel tender?
 
On the body protector front I hate them have never worm one even hunting or jumping...... but I invested in a racesafe provent and it's so flipping comfy it's unreal!!!

On the bucking issue, once saw instructor deal with it by jabbing horse in mouth the second it thought about bucking. Horse had bucked owner off on road outside instructors house and instructor road it back (I was behind her on my horse) and you could see it thought about having her off and she immediately snapped horse out of it by jabbing horse in chops, it worked !!
 
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meesha said:
On the body protector front I hate them have never worm one even hunting or jumping...... but I invested in a racesafe provent and it's so flipping comfy it's unreal!!!

I bought a Racesafe Provent thinking I should get one as I am getting old and don't want to get hurt anymore, but thought I would hate it and never wear it. Like you I love it, find it makes me sit up straight as well.
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Sounds just like my boy as a 4 y/o when I rode him in the field, he would just take off on a bucking lap of honour at random points during our lessons not in a nasty way, he wasn't trying to get me off, I beleive he was trying to show his frustration and hindsight is a wonderful thing - I think the bucking was due to frustration of doing too much mentally and I stopped the "lessons".

I just hacked for a while then introduced him into riding in the field by myself, keeping things really short and sweet, building up the time gradually starting from a pathetic 5 min walk around the perimiter each way, it really worked.

I think we forget that even if our babies are physically capable that they still need time to mature mentally and we have to set them up not to fail and I wish I could have seen that first off when I was having the crap lessons and the instructor was calling him every name under the sun!
 
Food wise: off the grass & I soak about 50% of her hay because our supply is too mixed to test for sugar. She's then on around 500g Copra, 500g kwik beet, alfalfa chaff (double handful) split across 2 meals. Supplement wise - forage plus lami balancer, 2 scoops of their Vit E (I think that's 5000iU but need to check). MSM and up to 500ml veg oil a day. Alcar was no help. I ran the diet past Liverpool recently & they said it was fine. The only thing I've changed recently is moving from the FP winter balancer to their lami balancer because it had yea sac & magnesium in it already. What do you think?

Her back was done 3 weeks ago and saddle checked a couple of months ago. I genuinely think she's bucking because she's feeling good. When she's uncomfortable she head shakes violently which is my usual cue to get off and call her back lady. I might be wrong, but there is a LOT of enthusiasm in the bucks & she's keen to go out, whereas she used to nap badly. She also comes up at the front first so she can really throw herself into them. It's only hacking - hates the school, but never done it in there.
 
I'm going to look up that make of protector. I've dithered over buying one because the one I had 15 years ago was like a bullet proof vest and I could barely move in it. I was backing a youngster and had a v difficult horse on loan so it was necessary - but it disintegrated in time and I never replaced it.
 
I have to say, if they come out of nowhere and are so huge, it sounds to me like a response to pain/discomfort. At the very least, I would assume it's a response to being unbalanced/lacking strength to be able to do what is asked, coupled with a lack of understanding.

I wouldn't take her in the school at all at the moment, especially if it's small and the surface isn't good. Have her saddle rechecked and get her hacking, hacking, hacking to build up her fitness/strength, until you can get to a bigger school with a better surface. To be honest, with a horse who has muscle stiffness issues, she might never be up to much in the school if you push the issue now. Sounds like she needs a lot more time.

Hope the issues resolve for you.
 
Clare85 said:
I have to say, if they come out of nowhere and are so huge, it sounds to me like a response to pain/discomfort. At the very least, I would assume it's a response to being unbalanced/lacking strength to be able to do what is asked, coupled with a lack of understanding.

I wouldn't take her in the school at all at the moment, especially if it's small and the surface isn't good. Have her saddle rechecked and get her hacking, hacking, hacking to build up her fitness/strength, until you can get to a bigger school with a better surface. To be honest, with a horse who has muscle stiffness issues, she might never be up to much in the school if you push the issue now. Sounds like she needs a lot more time.

Hope the issues resolve for you.
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If my vets weren't so clueless about PSSM I'd ask their advice, but I think I'll give my back lady and the saddle fitter a shout. There is a muscle relaxant that I've been recommended, but I'm going to need to find a vet that's prepared to prescribe it - if I can trial her in that & the bucks stop then obviously it's a pain issue. Thx.
 
SEL said:
If my vets weren't so clueless about PSSM I'd ask their advice, but I think I'll give my back lady and the saddle fitter a shout. There is a muscle relaxant that I've been recommended, but I'm going to need to find a vet that's prepared to prescribe it - if I can trial her in that & the bucks stop then obviously it's a pain issue. Thx.
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Maybe try a different vet? Whereabouts are you?
 
I have an Appy and an Appyx neither of them can tolerate alfalfa (the well mannered older one will start rockig front and back, on the road, if she has it!) the younger one becomes bonkers in hand. It would be the first thing I would do to remove the alfalfa from her diet. I woud also get the saddle checked, we have bought Solution Saddles mainly s the youngsters muscle up they change shape so much.
 
I can't feed one of mine any form of Alfalfa or it sends him absolutely ridiculous. Finding a chaff without it is hard, but there are a couple out there. Might be worth knocking the Alfalfa on the head and seeing if there is any difference.
 
I've had Halleys stuff before so I'll drop an order in to them for non alfalfa - Its just hard finding the low sugar stuff. I've also decided re-reading all of these (thank you!) that I am going to get a bit bolshy with my vets and demand we put her on robaxim to see if it helps out. I don't want to be riding her if she's in pain and I also don't want to get splatted again. If its pure baby enthusiasm (& lack of education) then that's a different plan of action to there still being a pain issue. She has got sooooo much better in the last 18 months that I thought / hoped we'd got on top of the muscular problems - but this could even be a non PSSM issue.

Hobbled up to the yard this morning and she's really confused as to why we weren't off on our morning jolly along the hacking routes. Hubbie got to learn the weight of soaked haynets as he hauled them out of the buckets!
 
I don't have loads of time to explain just now but what I would do is keep an exercise diary and do the exact same amount every day and note her behaviours. Is it type 1 or type 2?

It's very difficult when you have a PSSM horse because you automatically and naturally think everything is down to that but what I've found in the last 2 years of managing my mare, is that it usually hasn't been that per say and instead it's been an additional problem (for us this has mainly been saddle, having been let down by a very well known specialist company).

The only time she has done massive bucks has been when she was lacking energy in the diet. Now that sounds ludicrous doesn't it but it's exactly the issue with mine who is also kept off grass. My mare is a very genuine and kind horse and I know if she bucks it's because there is a problem. She absolutely has *never* bucked from high spirits but both occasions where bucking has occurred (pro rider/saddle fitter) witnesses have tried to attribute it to that.

So in a nutshell when my horse bucks it's because I am asking her to do something she is unable to do which has been due to saddle fit, and recently due to running out of energy while jumping. She was saying to me F OFF asking me because I can't. Neither of these issues were sorted by anyone other than me, working it out.

You have to work it out yourself. The vet won't be able to help much I can say that from experience. Do your own research and keep copious notes of everything you do.
 
I haven't got anything to add to the bucking side of things as not familiar with PSSM, but if you're after a low sugar chaff/feed then the Agrobs feeds are all alfalfa free. My horse can go a bit loopy on alfalfa and this is what I feed him
 
She's PSSM type 1 btw.

Had the trimmer out to do her feet last night and we were discussing her outburst (mainly because I haven't even been able to pick feet out for the past 48 hours I'm so sore). She reminded me that we're still working with a horse who could only have her feet done under sedation until recently and still can't bring her back legs forward onto a stand - so obviously is not 100%. She also mentioned that feeding a diet high in soaked hay, even with a balancer, can send the calcium:magnesium:potassium levels out of whack so it might be worth looking at that too.

Even with all the lovely drugs the GP gave me there isn't a chance I'll be back in the saddle for another week or so (can barely walk) so I'll spend a bit of time back doing some groundwork and get her saddle & back checked again. My YO is convinced its baby high spirits - Shiloh is known for her bucking displays in the field - but we'll rule out everything else first and if it looks like it is youthful enthusiasm then I'm going to need super glue on the saddle.
 
My saddle. Its a disgrace and if I was a horse I would probably have bucked me off too.

So disappointed because 1) it was only refitted recently by someone who is locally considered v good and 2) when the flaws were pointed out to me they seemed flippin obvious and I feel so stupid for missing them.

I can't be bothered to go back to the original person so will get it sorted by someone I've seen in action and was impressed by or get a new saddle.

I am now going to turn into one of those annoying people who asks everyone with 'problem' horses if they've had their saddle checked!
 
I personally think that PSSM horses have so much to deal with that other horses don't, that things like saddle fit will send them over the edge.

If she can't lift her legs well it's not just saddle so I would still keep a diary as you may find it helpful in the future.

I have just started my mare on pro earth platinum as it appears to contain nothing problematic as some other balancers do. She likes the taste too, which is helpful!
 
I've got a physio coming out with a tens machine to see whether we can get a bit more movement in her hindlegs too - decided I'd throw everything at her. & yes there will be diary keeping because the vets still think I'm neurotic.

Yesterday was the first time I'd asked for trot in 10 days and it was that horrible PSSM 'shuffle'. Not surprised, but gutted after all the hard work over the summer. Sounds like she's going to have a bit more time off while I get the saddle sorted so I'll be digging out the long reins again.

Off to have a nosey at your balancer!
 
Can't help with the PSSM but can highly recommend Solution saddles. My Draft mare (not a youngster) had 4 saddles in 5 yrs, as she changed shape on her diet. She soon let me know when each one became uncomfortable! And was always a bit tense when being tacked up.
She is really relaxed about the Solution and moves better than ever before. We are using Solution for our youngsters as well, even though they are not cheap, it works out cheaper than having to buy a new saddle every few months.
 
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