Young horse 'bunching up' when schooling

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saddlesore

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I hope you know what I bean by bunching up! Like he gets shorter and tense through his frame. Horse is 4 1/2. Done very little schooling, lots of hacking and is very forward going. He has a very active trot and his canter can be lovely but sometimes when I ask for canter he gets tense and bunches up. This only happens when schooling. Any ideas how to fix this?
 
I would be trying to canter from a long, stretched out trot circle, after doing some spiraling in and out. To encourage engagement and relaxation on a soft contact. Easier said than done! Is he rather onward bound in canter? Are you anticipating and subconsciously holding in front or anything?
 
Actually his canter, whilst forward, is less enthusiastic than his trot lol. However I suspect I might tense up once he starts bunching up as it reminds me of a pre- buck feeling. However he has never bucked so I don't know why that's in my head. Sadly our outdoor school is flooded so I'm trying to school in our small indoor. It's about 25/30m sq.
 
saddlesore said:
Actually his canter, whilst forward, is less enthusiastic than his trot lol. However I suspect I might tense up once he starts bunching up as it reminds me of a pre- buck feeling. However he has never bucked so I don't know why that's in my head. Sadly our outdoor school is flooded so I'm trying to school in our small indoor. It's about 25/30m sq.
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That's a fair part of the problem (unless he's under 14.2!) My 17hh 4 year olds struggle with canter in a 20x40 - they'll get 4 or 5 strides on the long side and THEN they have to turn - plays havoc with the balance.

i'd be inclined to give up cantering in the Indoor for now - give him lots of LDR trot work, poles etc. Only canter out hacking. Do that until weaher improves and you'll be amazed by the improvement in canter!
 
Do you think the small space is stopping him making the transition? He's very forward thinking so it's an odd one for me. If anything I'm working on slowing him down at the moment. What does LDR mean? He's 15.2 but a heavy weight cob and not the most supple as I've focused on hacking out to get him confident and forward. The latter has definitely been achieved!
 
I agree with Janet, it will be a big ask for a heavy cob that is still weak and immature to canter properly in such a small space, work on getting his walk and trot going leaving cantering to hacking, he will benefit and the canter will come when he is ready. LDR = low, down, round he needs to work on lifting his back, working his core, finding his balance so he can relax and slow down into a rhythm .
 
Do you hack routinely in canter? If so, practice collection out and about. I think at this young age, when horses are grappling with balance, it's better to play with the tempo on familiar ground.

Schools are really hard going for youngsters, I cannot express this enough. If your youngster is not used to surfaces, it's challenging. Very different feel to the ground. I sprained my ankle on a surfaced arena. They are surprisingly hard going.
 
There is no reason whatsoever to be doing your schooling in "the school". School your horse on hacks. He will be struggling with his balance in a school, the corners come round far too quickly! Let him learn to balance himself on different terrain, in straight lines, long gentle curves, up and down gentle slopes.
 
Yes I canter quite often but he is rather forward bound and ive let him get on with it tbh as I can't stand a lazy horse and I wanted to teach him forward. As it stands collection is something of a disagreement and I tend to hack in a stronger bit so I can just check and release. This is clearly something I need to work on however. Would you let him run on then ask him to come back to get him on his hocks then let him forwatd again? Does everyone agree I should forget the canter in the small school for now?
 
He is a 4 year old heavy cob so unlikely to be anywhere near ready to have any degree of collection yet in canter, be careful you are not pushing him so forward that he is rushing in trot and canter, there should no reason he needs to run on as you risk putting him more out of balance and onto his forehand, having a strong bit to help contain the speed seems counter productive to me, I can see where you are coming from but it must be confusing for a green horse to be told to go then checked and released they need a consistent contact to help maintain a consistent rhythm in all paces until they are ready to stay in self carriage which takes time to establish.
 
He's really only learning about contact now I've started to do some schooling tbh. Once he could go, stop and turn I started hacking him out. The stronger bit is for hacking in a group when we will be going for canters as he really belts on and I want a degree of control. He actually responds really well to the check and release and cantering out hacking isn't an issue. It's in the school, making the transition. Once he's in canter he's fine and doesnt rush on too much. The trot on the other hand can be very rushed and I'm working to slow this and get a rhythm atm.
 
JanetGeorge said:
That's a fair part of the problem (unless he's under 14.2!) My 17hh 4 year olds struggle with canter in a 20x40 - they'll get 4 or 5 strides on the long side and THEN they have to turn - plays havoc with the balance.

i'd be inclined to give up cantering in the Indoor for now - give him lots of LDR trot work, poles etc. Only canter out hacking. Do that until weather improves and you'll be amazed by the improvement in canter!
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This completely. My feral carthorse is doing the same. He is naturally well balanced for his age (4 this summer), his trot is established and he has done 4 W/T tests scoring very well. However canter is a problem and he got very anxious, with a 'I can't do this' outlook. Cantering in the fields is easy for him but of course, he has not been doing any cantering now the winter is in and the stubble in ploughed.

I am a great believer of hacking babies out, getting them swinging along and balancing themselves. Physically they are weak and mentally even weaker.
 
Thanks for that - oddly 'I can't do this' had never entered my head as he has always been such a confident youngster (ive had him since he was 20 months and backed him) but that makes perfect sense given how keen he is when hacking out. I'll lay off the canter just now unless he offers it and focus on suppling exercises and pole work over the winter. It's grim here on the west coast of Scotland- feels like 40 days and 40 nights of rain. Can't see us getting to do fun stuff any time soon- the whole place is a bog.
 
We are all up against it given the time of year, but being in the north must make your life even more difficult with trying to educate a young horse. Don;t be worried about knocking him off work, he is a baby.

I can only comment on the problems we have encountered with our heavy cob, some of which you are experiencing with yours.

Mine is forward going to the point that his willingness (he is not hot) can make him anxious and get him rushing, this could be mistaken as being 'strong', when the reality is an on the forehand and a 'closed up' way of going. I would advise against using a stronger bit. There is no reason a correctly broken young horse would have a poor mouth, remember is takes two to pull or lean. Forget collection that is for the future. The horse has to learn to balance and to work from behind before collecting the resultant power. Also remember heavy cobs are not Valegro in hiding ! they mature slowly, are not really built to find ridden work easy but crucially they normally have a wonderful attitude.

I found these pictures, we always keep the dreadful pictures, it helps with monitoring the progression. Please forgive the dress code, my breaker was unorthodox in more ways than one !

First canter, this was August and although we can get him into canter in the arena, he finds it impossible.

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Oopps and whoa

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Don't despair OP you will get there in time.
 
Cantering can be a bit of a Dark Art for cobs; after all, they are vanners, designed to trot. I know you lot are all big fans of hacking, but the school is the place to teach proper balance, bend and baby collection (collection is what all horses have to achieve in order to carry the rider at all well). Cobs, of all creatures, really do have to operate on the bit otherwise their balance is all over the forehand and they never learn to engage those lovely big hind ends :-) Far from letting the horse flop along LDR (Long Deep and Round), it is better to get the transitions crisp and keep the canter strides short, and only do maybe half a circle in canter before making a transition. I'd also do a lot of walk-to-canter transitions.

Oh, and get some lessons from a competent instructor with experience of cobs too.
 
Are you near a nice sandy beach, that's where I am doing nearly all my schooling with my cob. It's an easy surface for them with as big a circle or straight line as you need.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Are you near a nice sandy beach, that's where I am doing nearly all my schooling with my cob. It's an easy surface for them with as big a circle or straight line as you need.
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Sadly not :-( we have fields we can ride in but not at the moment- everything is flooded. Getting canter is no issue in fields at all and there is no tension- just very onward bound. Oddly for his breed his prefered pace is canter but not in the school!
 
Tbh it's hardly a rigorous regime! Once or twice a week and a big hack at the weekend. Trying to get him a bit more flexible through his neck and shoulder so circles and figures of eight. Mostly in trot as his walk, despite being very forward elsewhere, is going nowhere and he starts chewing his bit 😳 the occasional pole but he is clumsy so not pushing that. Attempts have been made at canter- when he offers it it's actually nice and balanced, but as I said he can back of my leg and get tense and not canter refuse to canter.
 
I stopped cantering my 16'3 tank for six months, according to him I'm.mean, because he was rushing his trot and on the forehand in walk so all we did was walk and trot for six months out hacking and in the school asking for softness in the mouth and working over his back.

After those six months his canter was amazing, still started off in little.bits if it but it really helps getting your balance and speed better in the walk and trot before you start cantering in my experience.
 
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How is his lateral work? Shoulder in to canter or leg yield to the fence before asking for the transition can help to get the body positioning and legs in the right order to make the transition easier.
 
Oh dear... sorry, I didn't mean collection as in start piaffe and passage btw!!! Collecting in the early stages is actually all about starting them being on the aids and starting to teach them to lift the 'chest' up between the shoulders and shift the weight backwards and I think heavier breeds need this in the early stages tbh. Getting them low in the neck is counter productive as at this stage they have nothing to stretch yet. It will just drive them further on the forehand. I think lateral work is very important at an early stage and I don't know why people think they need to wait... nothing wrong with getting them to move the quarters and fore independently of each other. You could just start by asking for bend from the poll.
 
tallyho! said:
Oh dear... sorry, I didn't mean collection as in start piaffe and passage btw!!! Collecting in the early stages is actually all about starting them being on the aids and starting to teach them to lift the 'chest' up between the shoulders and shift the weight backwards and I think heavier breeds need this in the early stages tbh. Getting them low in the neck is counter productive as at this stage they have nothing to stretch yet. It will just drive them further on the forehand. I think lateral work is very important at an early stage and I don't know why people think they need to wait... nothing wrong with getting them to move the quarters and fore independently of each other. You could just start by asking for bend from the poll.
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My cart horse picked up sideways very quickly. Ted in concentration, love this picture. We are optimistically hoping he is going to be a dressage horse. Judges need to see more than warmbloods in the arena !

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