Young horse critisism (long, sorry)

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I just wanted to sound something out and get a few opinions. I have a young pony who I have backed myself a couple of months ago and have taken everything slowly with. He is a pleasure in every way, leads the way bold as brass out hacking but with a spooky edge so we go out in company for confidence and he is fabulous. Riding in the field I still feel very much as though he is still learning to balance under me (had saddle checked today and it was tipping me back and dropping me to the right) and he has had a tendency to stop. By this I mean a few weeks ago he was stopping every few strides in walk.

People keep telling me he is napping and someone today told me I should really get after him and drive him forwards as it will become a real problem. However my gut feeling is that he isnt being bad. For starters he is REALLY sensitive - after a lot of ground work he halts as soon as I get to the 'ah' in 'and stand', he does this in hand and under saddle, so i noticed that he was stopping everytime i took a deep breath. If I give him a second and then look ahead and ask him quietly to walk on, he will do so willingly. If he doesnt I gently move his forehand til he is off balance and he has to take a step, and he walks on from there. A few weeks ago he wouldnt and I got cross (only time I ever have with him)and tried kicking him and he just planted and refused everything, and threatened to go up. I have had a lesson since then and he has been lovely, only halting unasked a couple of times each session Like I say, Ive just been giving him a second and then asking him forwards politely.

I have always been accused of being too nice to horses I ride, but have tried to use this critisism and become clearer and more focused with what i am asking my boy, rather than wishy washy. but the chap today made me feel like unless I really start to get after him and force him through the issue I am doing a terrible job and will have a problem horse, he said hes just being naughty (to be fair, pony was unusually bad about it today). This is a professional person I really respect so his comment has really got to me as I really feel I am doing the right thing. I know a lot of other 4 year old are jumping and cantering and competing at shows, but if i hope to have this horse for the next 30 years, does it really matter that we are still quietly working through basic issues like this? Do I boot him and have a fight, or go with what i am doing which may be slower progress but calm, quiet and without stress? (I am capable of having a temper and i REALLY dont want to ever ever lose it under pressure).

I have another lesson this week to boost my confidence and his back is being checked too. He is also losing baby teeth.
 
Ignore the muppets (professional or otherwise ) and carry on with what you're doing. It sounds like a wonderful job to me.

People just have to stick their nose in don't they????

EDT: Funnily enought not many 4 year olds like doing things on their own......
 
how old is he? is he 4? and he's a pony?
i think you are right to take it the way you are. difficult to know without seeing him obv, but he might well be weak, he is still learning to balance under you, his mouth's not 100% if he's losing teeth (has he still got wolf teeth, btw?).
patience and kindness is always the answer, unless he is being downright defiant and saying NO I WON'T, which is not the same as No, I Can't (do it, understand, cope, etc.)
tbh it sounds as if lessons aren't boosting your confidence at all... i'd beware who you have them with... as long as you have the pony doing what you want, and going where you want, that sounds good for a 4 yr old. you aren't losing any battles with him, you are taking your time and keeping it all sweet and nice. sounds good to me.
fwiw, of my two 4 yr olds - one has been backed, ridden away, got to being able to trot a figure of 8 in an indoor school, and hacked out with people walking beside, then chucked away to grow again. nothing high powered or competitive for her this year!
the other one - cantering under saddle, we managed a 20m circle for the first time the other day, and jumping 1' high fences. no competing yet.
so, not everyone is doing amazing stuff with 4 yr olds!
if the pony does start taking the pee, refusing to go where you want, etc, that's the time to get more vociferous and determined. sometimes they need to know that you really will insist if necessary. but if he's just taking his time, but then doing what you want, i'd be happy with that.
 
Thanks, thats kind of what i wanted someone to say. Hes such a lovely, sensitive, beautiful horse im terrified i'll cock it all up.
 
I have to say that my instructor is great, a lovely lady who is so motivational and easy to understand - I had a real crisis of confidence a few weeks ago with the stopping but after 20 mins with her we have been great the last 2 weeks, purely because I was happy and reassured that i was doing okay..i was really proud of me and the pony in fact. It was just the chap today that has thrown me. You're right though, i have to make sure I know the difference if he does start to say 'won't' instead of 'can't'.

Oh, and he's 4 years old, 14hh (im 5'3 but with a long torso so my tipping with the saddle i think will have unbalanced him a little more than normal), spanishxwelsh b so not mature yet, and he has had his wolf teeth removed 6 months ago before i even bitted him as they were enormous and I didnt want to have anything that would cause him problems from the start.
 
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Ignore the muppets (professional or otherwise ) and carry on with what you're doing. It sounds like a wonderful job to me.

People just have to stick their nose in don't they????

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I second this
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Hi
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my lad does the same and also sensitive. However not like it every day, only when something is up. He can be spooky and when hes having one of these days will let me know by planting himself, if i make a fuss, kick, use whip etc he will get worse and go absoloutely inside himself and turn into a jibbery wreck. He also does this however when he has a saddle on his back that he doenst like, he will walk, trot or canter then just come to a stop after a few strides (very clever huh
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ridden and lunge) also will refuse to back up with the saddle on.
Its hard to say as u will know yr horse more than anyone but i cant see how booting and yelling at a horse is beneficial, especially if he has a tendancy to be spooky this will just worry him more. id say check everything else out before "getting after him". after all, you are the one who has to be with him for the rest of yr time together, u dont want to ruin the trust u have started to create with him. He is only 4 after all. also dont judge your progress on anyone elses, it doesnt matter if other people are out competing their 4 year olds, all horses are different and progress at different rates, focus on u and him and things will work out
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good luck
 
I would check saddle, teeth, back, feet etc first and assuming all is ok carry on with your approach. If he plants, turn him in small circles, this will make him work a bit harder than just walking on quietly!! they soon get the idea! TBH he sounds a little insecure - mine went through this, he hacks anywhere now, so try not to worry. As for other young horses showing and jumping etc, IMHO alot of them are pushed too far to young - do what's best for your boy and tell other's to mind their own business. I used to get very despondent - i still do - when i go to shows and watch all the other welshies looking fantastic, when mine is still doing basic walk and trot, but on hell of a lot of these have been tied down to get the head carriage - won't do them alot of good in old age.
 
If your horse is stopping and it isnt on your terms..... then he is basically thinking umm my mum isnt the leader here... so i better do what i think is best... In your instant he is dictating the pace and napping.

I think you should heed the words of your instructor if you respect her opinion. You dont have to beat your pony up, i would suggest longreining him and if he starts backing up and stopping, then give him a short sharp smack and send him on. When he is confidently going forwards properly then go back to riding him.

It is VITALLY important to get them to respect you, if you dont you just end up with another problem horse if your not carefull. Also lots of hacking in company should help.
 
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In your instant he is dictating the pace and napping.

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Really? Is it not being an insecure recently broken 4 year old?????
 
i don't call it napping if they stand and think, then go forwards. hesitancy, but not defiance.
it's only napping in my book if they start running backwards, or trying to turn round, or trying to remove me by some means...
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keep him sweet, and teach him to go forward from your voice if necessary. oh, and ignore what anyone else is doing with their 4 yr olds... for every one going xc already, there will be one that's barely been sat on yet!
v best of luck!
 
Thank you kerilli, thats my opinion too. I'd like to make it clear that I dont just let him pack up and go home if he's stopped, I always persist and we only ever finish on a positive note, and i always dismount in different places, never where he has stopped of his own accord. He doesn't try to turn, or mess about so Im reluctant to turn him in a circle as I dont want him to go anywhere but forwards, although if he doesn't walk on after a second I will do a step of turn on the forehand or turn on the haunches to get his legs 'unstuck'.

He is a little insecure as he has only been at his present yard for 4 weeks...and we havent had the best weather since then!, but i think thats a good reason to keep everything quiet and consistent to build his trust in me.

I do appreciate your opinion daisychain, long reining him is a good idea as I suppose since changing yards I have mainly got straight on, whereas at the last yard I did long rein a lot to start with. And I will keep hacking him with a friend so that he doesnt lose his nerve - its a pity I can only do it at the weekends as I work every evening and my friend works every morning, I think more hacking would really help him to think forwards.
 
No, not from what i have read between the lines, i think she could have a problem developing if she isnt careful. The pony has already resisted when she did ask it to go forward more by resisting and threatenting to rear. Read the post not just one person but several are telling her the same thing.... My mum always says if you here the same advise off 3 people then perhaps you should be listening.

I break horses in on a regular basis, and this would have slight warning bells ringing for me.
 
Yes keep up the longreining, it is very effective way at correcting potential problems from arising! Good luck with him, and im sure you will sort it!
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how long has he been working under saddle?

if it was my 4yro i would be concerned if it was stopping all of the time without me asking and i think i would nip it in the bud.

is he responsive to your leg apart from the unscheduled stops?

i would be more concerned about the tantrum when you tried to make him go forward than the stopping itself- that says to be 'won't' rather than 'can't.'

i would definitely pick up with the long reining again as well- i long rein all of my babies even once they are under saddle and also the older competition horses get at least one session a week
 
Your horse.You know him.Go with your own gut feeling and ignore everyone else.If you have a friend/instructor that you really trust you could ask them to come and have a look.If nothing else it might give you confidence in what you are currently doing.
 
Ditto this. If he's stopping when you so much as breathe, you may have him trained to a fine degree, but you also may be being a little 'delicate' with him.
Maybe he's seeing this as a lack of confidence on your part. You must make sure you are positive with babies, you don't have to duff them up but they have to be obedient.
 
I think you all have a lot of good points. I dont want to end up with a napper as he is super smart and sensitive so he could easily develop into one if I faff around and nor to I want to get 'tough', I just need to be firmer and clearer and gain some focus myself (today i was so distracted - I think my other pony has seriously damaged her eye and am waiting for the vet now- that i was useless, so i ended the session after 10 minutes as I felt myself getting upset). I am not helped by not having a school to work in so I have no clear boundaries to focus my brain, and he has no walls and corners to work with. I may try, along with the long reining and groundwork, to have someone on the ground to help me when im riding to keep him moving forwards.

Ive decided to not turn this into a big deal, but to focus on my riding and to use the bits of each peoples advice that i think will suit my horse. Thank you all very much, its been good to sound things out and most of what you have said have mirrored things I already had thought.
 
I had a similar issue with our young one last year/early this year. He's just turned 5 and when we bought him aged 4 he had been backed and was being ridden by a 10 year old girl who was doing a great job....only he was only ever ridden in company and I was told that he was not confident enough to go out alone.

Well, I did take him out alone - he went off the yard no problem and got halfway down the track and stopped to admire the view. He did it quite frequently...and it was irritating, but I found that if I asked him to move on, and he so much as lifted a hoof - then I praised him and made a big fuss...and off he went like 10 men. He was a bugger in the school too...just did not like it, wouldnt trot for more than about 6 paces without grinding to a halt.

I have taken it really steady....too steady for some peoples taste I know that....but my opinion was the same as yours...I have a young pony who I intend on keeping long term, no rush - I dont want to spoil him. We are at the stage now where he will hack out nicely alone...no more stops. He will school well but gets bored easily so we do a variety of things...in and out of cones, loose jumping etc. I have cantered him out on hacks but only a couple of times in the arena as he is still very unbalanced.

Frankly, I believe in slow and steady...I find that getting into a battle means the human loses...the relationship is soured and the pony spoiled.

I would keep at it slow/steady/gently but consistently and you will get there
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i don't have a school either and find it really helps me to keep the horses forward and straight if i aim at a fence post for example, then make a clear corner and aim for something else.

really helps with keeping transitions etc straighter as well and with some work you will find that your horse is much better schooled than horses which are 'held straight' by a manege fence
 
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