Young horse help!!

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Ha_0x

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I have a Irish draught x yearling, who is already about 14.2 and very strong. He shares a field with 3 other ponies, and if any of those are brought in without him he goes mental. He has started trying to round the owner up while she catches her horses and being all round difficult, if he is then brought in by her he rears and cow kicks. He is never this bad with me, however its not always possible for me to bring him in before the others want there horses in. Any advise on how to deal with him?!!
 
yeah, when he was 9months old. He also left his mum at 4months, which i think is very young so want him to stay socialised...
 
im not much help, I have a rising 3 gelding, who was gelded at 10 months that rears and kicks out with his front feet when he get wound up/excited around the other horse?

might it be easier, if she brought yours in first, so he's not getting upset by the other horses leaving him? if not, could you put a bit of electric around the gate way to keep your boy of of the way whilst she brings hers in?

whats he like with you if he's upset about being left in the field? is be bad?
 
Ha_0x said:
He is never this bad with me, however its not always possible for me to bring him in before the others want there horses in.
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Does the highlighted bit mean he is bad with you but not quite as bad as he is with her? Where is he in the pecking order? Sounds like he needs to be moved into a herd with a strong herd leader and just as strong minions below.
 
Spring Feather said:
Does the highlighted bit mean he is bad with you but not quite as bad as he is with her? Where is he in the pecking order? Sounds like he needs to be moved into a herd with a strong herd leader and just as strong minions below.
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but I wonder if he has a strong herd leader that leaves it might make him feel more in secure? my mare is very much the herd leader and every horse she's been out with has got really stressed out when I've taken her out to ride!
 
Dont leave him out on his oqn. And do make sure you can gwt him in to prevent him being left.

Having youngsters is a full time job.
 
Spring Feather said:
Does the highlighted bit mean he is bad with you but not quite as bad as he is with her? Where is he in the pecking order? Sounds like he needs to be moved into a herd with a strong herd leader and just as strong minions below.
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Agree with this. When my lad was this age he would get seriously told off by another gelding if he misbehaved. He needs some ground work so he respects you, and a good boss in the field.

Does he have others of a similar age to play with ?
 
He is never left on his own, theres always someone with him, if she brings hers in he is always brought in too but he makes it hard work. He has his days when he is bad with me, but he stopped rearing with me months ago. He likes to think he is top dog because he is the biggest, however they are all simular ages and play/fight alot. He was like this before with another horse and had to be moved as he used to charge at his owner. I dont want him to be by himself because he is growing up and needs socialising. He will often try charge through the gate, so creating a new one wont help.
 
Oh dear, another "horse that can't be left on his own" in the making. I require my horses to work separately or in company, be left tied for long periods, on their own, and they just have to get on with it. I start training them for this at a young age and any that cannot deal with it (very few) are sold. It is a matter of discipline and training, starting with short periods (and reprimands for silly behaviour) and working up to being calm under all conditions. Letting a horse work itself up into hysterics is helping no-one.
 
Thats not always the case, some days her horses wont go out due to them being ridden, and he will spend the whole day if not days in the field by himself with no problems. It seems to be when hes spent the day with them, like he is protecting them trying to herd the owner with them?
 
If they are all the same age, then I can only emphasise what spring feather said, they need an older leader in with them, to keep them in line.
 
I dont think that would be possible unless i moved yards, as all the other horses present are too old to be put with a yearling (late 20's) and non of their owners want to risk anything :/
 
I'm confused, they're all the same age but hers are ridden? Therefore I would hope not yearlings? And yours is never left alone, but sometimes spends hours if not days out alone?
 
Yeah im not explaining this very well..

He is never left alone after a day of being out with them.. they either all come in or just he comes in.. however some days he will go out by himself as they are being worked.

there are 3 of them(they are all children sized ponies), one is 2, one is 4 and im unsure of the other but its simular age..

mine is a year and half (he is about 14.2 irish draught X)
 
kerrieberry2 said:
but I wonder if he has a strong herd leader that leaves it might make him feel more in secure? my mare is very much the herd leader and every horse she's been out with has got really stressed out when I've taken her out to ride!
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Then your herd is not a strong herd. A strong herd is made up of a, generally passive, herd leader and a very strong Number 2. Having strong minions below those two will keep all in order when they are not in with the herd.

OP your horse needs to learn by example and realistically the only way that will happen is if you move him to a field with older, mature and confident horses, otherwise you are setting not only yourself up for failure, but also him. You could have a helion on your hands in a year or twos time and at 3 years old you definitely do not want a horse who rears and charges at you or anyone else!
 
Ha_0x said:
Thats not always the case, some days her horses wont go out due to them being ridden, and he will spend the whole day if not days in the field by himself with no problems. It seems to be when hes spent the day with them, like he is protecting them trying to herd the owner with them?
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This could be the crux of your problem, or his problem. If he is left for days on his own, he will crave the herd even more. He sounds very insecure and just because he is acting out he is being "blamed" for his behaviours. He is only a yearling and it doesn't matter how big they are, they are still emotionally very young. It sounds like he has already had a few moves and now he is in with horses that come and go, no wonder he is playing up.

Cortez I disagree that yearlings should learn to be on their own, I believe at that age they need stability and the safety of a herd. OP you may say it is easier said than done to find a youngstock livery, but it really isn't and I think you will find he is much better if left out with friends for at least another year so he can just be a happy and settled youngster. If you don't help him with this now, you will have an absolute handful when you come to back him.
 
Even if you can't find a good youngstock livery, look for a yard with good experienced management, & a herd with other youngstock & established older leaders.
 
Ive spent the last 6 months bonding with him, and he is an absolute angel for me, he comes in every night. Just when he is in the field we have a problem, it makes sense what you are saying about craving the herd, but if she chooses to leave her horses in i cant help that.. Granted in the summer he will spend more time out however i love spending time with him. Yes i need to find a new livery, but im stuggling to find this in east sussex near enough to work while juggling a degree :/
 
Ha_0x said:
Ive spent the last 6 months bonding with him, and he is an absolute angel for me, he comes in every night. Just when he is in the field we have a problem, it makes sense what you are saying about craving the herd, but if she chooses to leave her horses in i cant help that.. Granted in the summer he will spend more time out however i love spending time with him. Yes i need to find a new livery, but im stuggling to find this in east sussex near enough to work while juggling a degree :/
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There are lots of studs down your way and sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but your bonding with him and your loving spending time with him isn't the important issue here, you aren't a field companion to him, nor are you another youngster. Having a youngster is a big responsibility and ensuring they have a happy childhood is also your responsibility. You could easily put him on grass livery with other youngstock and visit him when you can. I had to do this with my first two foals and they don't forget who you are inbetween. You are saying his behaviour is poor so something needs to change, or why ask for help and advice in the first place, you did that, so obviously can see there is something not right for him?
 
Yeah I understand what you are saying. However he is already with youngstock now, are you saying I need to find new lot or leave him out with them longer? The owner swaps around what 3 she leaves with him somedays. Should I ask for them to be kept the same as often as possible so he can bond and build a herd? Or does he ideally need an older mature horse to lead him?
 
Ha_0x said:
Yeah I understand what you are saying. However he is already with youngstock now, are you saying I need to find new lot or leave him out with them longer? The owner swaps around what 3 she leaves with him somedays. Should I ask for them to be kept the same as often as possible so he can bond and build a herd? Or does he ideally need an older mature horse to lead him?
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Quite a few studs have all their youngstock in age groups. Many tend to just leave them out until they want their feet trimming, or worming etc. Even smaller breeders often do it this way. It is the stability which helps more than anything I think. There is no real reason for them to come in and out, as long as there is enough forage put out for them. I do also like a herd situation though, until recently I had my mares, 2 year old gelding and 8 month old colt all living together and it worked very well. The only reason I have moved the gelding and the colt into a field together is that the youngster kept pinching the older horses feed which is not good for him. He settled very quickly as he knew the gelding since birth. Why does the other owner feel the need to keep swapping her youngsters about in the first place?
 
Ha_0x said:
Yeah I understand what you are saying. However he is already with youngstock now, are you saying I need to find new lot or leave him out with them longer? The owner swaps around what 3 she leaves with him somedays. Should I ask for them to be kept the same as often as possible so he can bond and build a herd? Or does he ideally need an older mature horse to lead him?
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He needs to be with other youngsters BUT those other youngsters NEED to be with older mature horses too. Almost all studs, myself included, run youngsters (in age groups) with older mature nanny horses. It's these horses that teach the youngsters a lot of things that they need to know in order to become good equine citizens. Humans can manipulate this IF they know exactly how to do it, but using horses, their own kind, is far easier for youngsters to understand what is expected of them and what is not. It is also incredibly helpful to the human handler. The horses your youngster is in with at present are all youngsters themselves so they cannot possibly do the job that older horses can do in raising your boy. Liken it to a school classroom of kindergarten children and then it might make sense to you. Lots of peers but also a number of adult helpers.
 
Where I currently am there is barely any grass and it floods a lot. I bring him in forward feeds, lots of hay and to rest his feet because it's so wet. She moves her youngsters around as she has 1 field which they rotate with the most grass and also for mine to get used to different horses ? I've had horses beforebut this is my first youngster I just need that extra helping hand!!
 
He doesn't want to get used to different horses, that is his whole problem. He needs to bond with the same members of his herd. He isn't old enough to be doing a speed dating programme. It would be like sending a toddler to nursery each day with different carers and different children there. Can you see how confusing and upsetting that would be?
 
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