tomandtj
New User
have a Welsh d colt 14hh 18 months old and he keeps biting. He is biting all the time esp when putting his head collar on and leading. Any advice
young horse keeps biting
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tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Colts bite. It's what they do and especially if they are dominant.
I had a dominant filly and she bit me as a yearling. No surprise there. I immediately grabbed her bottom lip and tongue in a grasp. Do it where the bit would go where there are no teeth and don't let go until you're sure he is finding the experience wholly unpleasant and is visibly recoiling. Make sure it's immediate and stay calm and don't shout. Then just continue as normal. I've not been bitten since.
I had a dominant filly and she bit me as a yearling. No surprise there. I immediately grabbed her bottom lip and tongue in a grasp. Do it where the bit would go where there are no teeth and don't let go until you're sure he is finding the experience wholly unpleasant and is visibly recoiling. Make sure it's immediate and stay calm and don't shout. Then just continue as normal. I've not been bitten since.
AppyLover
Well-Known Member
My gelding started biting around 2 years old and it was all down to teething as it wasn't him at all and very out of character after a few months and well placed elbows he stopped and I can tell when his teeth are bothering him now as he gets nibbley
Equi
Well-Known Member
Ditto to this. I coupled it with an "ah!" and he now only needs an ah to stop any bad behaviour.
AppyLover
Well-Known Member
it's funny how they all seen to know what 'ah!' mean lol and normally quiets them down abit
Equi
Well-Known Member
it's funny how they all seen to know what 'ah!' mean lol and normally quiets them down abit
Yes haha my stallion likes to bite his bum over the door when im grooming him so he hops about, stallion gets an AH and he stops. Love the Ah!
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Excellent post. Most training can be achieved with kindness and patience. But not all!
Another way might be to put the youngsters out with the herd. He'll end up biting the wrong one sooner or later.
fburton
Well-Known Member
Personally I don't believe considering dominance informs the solution to the problem. However...
This is excellent. Great example of how to address the behaviour, in a nutshell.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Agree, another horse will teach what is unacceptable behaviour faster than we can. I wonder if this colt is getting 24/7 turnout in a herd? I would say that is what he needs.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I've seen it work with other people so it is not my own technique.
No, dominance is not informing the solution, merely providing a rationale as to why it would occur. Dominance does not mean an inherent trait, I should have pointed out. Used here, denotes a dominance over the handler. Many young horses would not dream of using this behaviour, some bold or perhaps nervous individuals might. Just as it would be that dominance does not mean over a whole herd, but could be over one individual. Some are just inclined to pick fights with whomsoever they dare to!
Heelsdown
Well-Known Member
Never bitten by my colt, but he went through a stage of nipping, especially if you were wearing loose clothing. A few 'ah's' worked in the moment but not in the long term. I went onto pinching his lip with my nails when he tried. He soon stopped and hasn't tried again since! And yes, he is fine with me around his mouth now.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I would geld him - my boy did this and it was one of the reasons why he got castrated. You need to be firm with a sharp NO! and bop the nose when he tries, mine has not done it since
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madlady
Well-Known Member
A sharp poke in the muzzle when he does it or a pull of the whiskers, grab of the lip or elbow in the neck/shoulder - all should work if you react instantly, consistently and without getting upset.
If that doesn't solve the problem then I also would consider gelding - I wouldn't tolerate a colt who wasn't prepared to learn his manners.
Yes it does take some longer than others but you should see results quite quickly if the biting is dealt with in a consistent way.
If that doesn't solve the problem then I also would consider gelding - I wouldn't tolerate a colt who wasn't prepared to learn his manners.
Yes it does take some longer than others but you should see results quite quickly if the biting is dealt with in a consistent way.
Prince33Sp4rkle
Well-Known Member
depends if the OP intended to keep him entire?!
there is a WORLD of difference between biting and nipping. A friend bought a 3yo jump bred stallion and the day it landed it grabbed him by the leg,held on, and pulled him over in the stable, visibly posturing to repeat the attack. That needs its balls off.
most entires will nip and and/or swing their head and grab at thin air and they are not meaning to hurt you at all, its boys games and whilst not to be encouraged its not a reason to geld(if you wanted a stallion).
and you could bop mine on the nose and tell him no until the cows came home and he thinks its good,rough,fun.
grabbing/pinching/twisting his skin or kicking him in the leg will work better as he will then associate the nip at you with a sharp shock and make his own mind up that you are not a playmate...........................i also think that murdering them for every little sin leads to stale and sour horses and you have to be careful to have clear boundaries but not to go OTT and start pasting them willy nilly because they are a stallion.
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Not sure why he is entire, obviously if you are struggling with his behaviour it is time to cut him or learn how to handle him pdq.
Stallions who work for a living can be pretty tricky to handle, the big TB studs for example will only employ experienced stallion men. Most stallions are relatively easy to handle, but you and I would be out of our depth. Some are difficult even for professionals, they are always under control, they have to be.
Stallions who work for a living can be pretty tricky to handle, the big TB studs for example will only employ experienced stallion men. Most stallions are relatively easy to handle, but you and I would be out of our depth. Some are difficult even for professionals, they are always under control, they have to be.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I wonder why this is here in the UK?
In Spain for example, stallions are the everyday animal handled by everyone even kids and are expected to respect other stallions and work with each other even standing side by side unsupervised. Is it the breed? The techniques?
Damnation
Well-Known Member
I think its a cultural thing. In Spain gelding is just a lesser done thing, over here a stallion is more of an "OMG ITS A STALLION???" If you see what I mean?
I used to handle a stallion, and spring was a bit hairy but I made sure he knew where he stood. I was 17 years old and 5ft 3, he was 16.2hh. He behaved as it was what I expected of him, he got told off/praised like every other horse.
He used to nip at loose clothing and just stand holding it in his mouth, he never ever went for bare arms though.
Actual biting is unacceptable, my young mare used to do this when I gave her too many treats. I slap on the neck, a sharp oi and making her move back out of my space did the trick. Once a horse respects your space, I find alot of issues seem to resolve themselves.
ETA: Treats soon stopped, treats came from her feed bucket and not from me after that!
madlady
Well-Known Member
On the larger TB studs where they are breeding for racing they aren't overly concerned about temperament or manners. The studs I've had experience of (where they are breeding for completely different reasons) would geld a colt with a bad temperament.
I've handled stallions from ponies up to 17h and never had any real difficulty with any because they have all been properly handled from youngsters. We had one extremely rude bargy stallion, he was given 6 months to learn manners. He didn't, he was gelded and went on to compete.
Merrymoles
Well-Known Member
My biter is gelding but thought to have been cut late. He needed consistent handling to learn that it was not acceptable and, while he still snakes his head at me a lot, his biting has reduced dramatically in the time I have had him. I do have to remain aware of his body language when leading (which is generally the only time he does it) so that I can nip any "coltish" behaviour in the bud as soon as it appears.
I did post on another thread that he had bitten me at the weekend but that was the first time in months and, while I am being anthromorphic here, I am sure he recognised that he had done wrong from his immediate "backing off" after. My tactics were either a sharp finger in the nose or a sharp elbow in the neck, depending on position, and a verbal reminder. Our word is "oi" and was originally said at loud volume, squaring up to his head. Now a quiet "oi" reminds him that I am not a horse and will not be treated like one.
I did post on another thread that he had bitten me at the weekend but that was the first time in months and, while I am being anthromorphic here, I am sure he recognised that he had done wrong from his immediate "backing off" after. My tactics were either a sharp finger in the nose or a sharp elbow in the neck, depending on position, and a verbal reminder. Our word is "oi" and was originally said at loud volume, squaring up to his head. Now a quiet "oi" reminds him that I am not a horse and will not be treated like one.
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Equi
Well-Known Member
Gelding won't stop a behavior :/
Equi
Well-Known Member
U.K. People are absolutely petrified of stallions. It's almost a crime to have a stallion. It's a bit silly really. Maybe they just haven't got as much horse skill as they like to think so cut its balls off to try and make it more manageable.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Yes it will, if that behaviour is associated with testosterone. Biting is just one of many entire male horse behaviours, along with rearing, striking, head butting, marking, etc., etc. If you are not happy with dealing with any of the above, then gelding will significantly reduce or remove them.
I have several stallions, all very well behaved, but I wouldn't let inexperienced people handle them.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
exactly. when I was in racing, anything too colty when ridden was cut asap, colty behaviour on the ground was somewhat corrected/tolerated. however, stallions standing at stud ranged from gentlemanly to one-handler types, experienced stallion men. These stallions are covering in hand, from what little I know from over in Portugal, stallions run with the mares. They (generally) are ridden horses any more.
Lusitano riding stallions are expected to be mannerly but they don't all cover, they don't all cover at such a young age and they are certainly not treated as most geldings are over here. I know of a fair few that have been brought over as mannerly stallions that have had to be cut pdq-of course there's many factors in this but mostly because we treat them differently ie less discipline. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, stallions over there get limited turn out and limited interactions with other horses-although they are generally worked much harder!
I'm not anti-stallion at all, have worked with TBs and WB stallions and I prefer later-cut geldings but if someone doesn't know enough to correct a bitey colt, I'd gently suggest they shouldnt be thinking of keeping it entire. The average livery yard is not set up with facilities or clientele capable of coping with an average stallion on the premises.
nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
Indeed!!!!!
Yes it will and no it won't. It can reduce the severity of the behaviour but ultimately the in hand training must be effective and boundaries put in place. Same with any other horse, you just have to be a little more aware they can act on their hormones.
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I assure you they are well mannered, from day 1 to the end, they are not selected on temperament, but on class, they still need good conformation to withstand stud duties, and if they are run of the mill types, the mare owner will want a sensible animal, and many breeders have a few mares for breeding not for profit.
I used to "do" five stallions, one I was not allowed to handle because he attacked the groom, yes he did "attack" him [no blood] because he was being bullied. I used to chat to him for a few days, then owner allowed me in, he was a pussy cat.
The vet arrived to deal with this "dangerous" stallion, with a big stick, I took it off him and told him I was in charge of discpline round here!
Btw Frankel was nearly cut due to his difficult behaviour, that would have lost a lot of money for his owners, but even if I had the money I would find one with better conformation and temperament if I was in to breeding for profit.
Coltish is generally bad behaviour in the loins, and they won't concentrate n the job in hand [racing] that is why they are cut, they are not all badly behaved in hand or in the stable.
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Equi
Well-Known Member
If the behavior is associated with bad handling it won't stop it. If it's stallion behavior then Gelding is not always going to fix it. It reduces the brain blows but doesn't fix the behavior.
Merlod
Well-Known Member
I am not against reprimanding, but also having owned my own welsh colt (who has grown up into a mannerly prince!) I went through the same problem as you - the biting/ nipping.
A good NH technique to when you are being bitten is to make a fist, a gently and firmly push (not punch!) him in the SIDE of the muzzle and his head away from you, do this every time and repeat until he gets bored of trying. This is apparently what the mares would do with annoying colts to put them in their place without engaging them... if you pull his whiskers or smack his face it can often turn into "game on" and you will find yourself a playmate for a playfighting colt!
A good NH technique to when you are being bitten is to make a fist, a gently and firmly push (not punch!) him in the SIDE of the muzzle and his head away from you, do this every time and repeat until he gets bored of trying. This is apparently what the mares would do with annoying colts to put them in their place without engaging them... if you pull his whiskers or smack his face it can often turn into "game on" and you will find yourself a playmate for a playfighting colt!
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Cortez
Tough but Fair
Sorry, but what are you trying to say here? It's not clear.
madlady
Well-Known Member
And that is exactly what I mean - racehorses aren't bred for the general public - they are bred for a very specific purpose and if a stallion is very good at what he does then he will be bred from - regardless of temperament.
For other horses though - ones not destined to be superstars but owned by Joe Public then, to me, temperament is one of, if not the, most important factors. In 'ordinary horse' terms I wouldn't keep something with a bad temperament entire let alone breed from it.
EQUIDAE
Well-Known Member
Just to extend this a bit... The problem is that once the behaviours have started it is usually too late - if the horse is gelded before sexual maturity it will never produce testosterone. Once they have reached sexual maturity not only do the yesticles produce testosterone but the brain does too - even when the testicles are gone the brain will still produce some testosterone, hence why late gelding still leaves behaviours.
My stallion and colts (now gelded) have always been fine - it is all due to how you handle them, and it is very rare to see them handled in a way that promotes calm, polite behaviour.
I also agree with Merlod - it's very important not to behave in a way that can make the horse think you are play fighting.