Young Horse Misbehaving Help Please

[Micropony]

"Bold", "nasty", words like that have no place in the head of someone working with a young horse. From your description of what you did with him on Saturday, you were on his back for about three times as long as you should have been, and chose to use that time in a foolish and damaging way.

I do not have as much personal experience of producing youngsters as you claim to have, but mine has never been treated like yours and so has never felt the need to behave like yours has. However I have watched lots of youngsters being produced for sale, i.e. with commercial pressure to sell, and none of them have been pressured like yours either.

Either you are being badly advised or you are not listening to the advice you are being given. Either way, give your poor horse a break!

Why not take up motocross or something instead?

 

[rachk89]

I wouldn't even put my 7 year old through that. He is still growing and so is your horse. If you want a lame horse at 10 years old then continue with your training schedule. But he will break at some point and soon.

 

[Goldenstar]

"Bold", "nasty", words like that have no place in the head of someone working with a young horse. From your description of what you did with him on Saturday, you were on his back for about three times as long as you should have been, and chose to use that time in a foolish and damaging way.

I do not have as much personal experience of producing youngsters as you claim to have, but mine has never been treated like yours and so has never felt the need to behave like yours has. However I have watched lots of youngsters being produced for sale, i.e. with commercial pressure to sell, and none of them have been pressured like yours either.

Either you are being badly advised or you are not listening to the advice you are being given. Either way, give your poor horse a break!

Why not take up motocross or something instead?

Why can a horse not be described as bold ?
I agree OP's horse is not bold she's not using the word to describe what is called bold in horses .

 

[Casey76]

Why can a horse not be described as bold ?
I agree OP's horse is not bold she's not using the word to describe what is called bold in horses .

I believe in this instance MP is using the definition of "bold" as used by the OP. Not "confident and forward thinking, especially xc or hunting", but rather "opinionated, stroppy, argumentative."

I agree, that a young horse shouldn't be faced with situations which can lead to the application of such labels. You are asking the question in the wrong time and place, in the wrong way (not necessarily the wrong question).

 

[9tails]

I doubt we'll see OP again. Bunny huggers, every last one of us.

 

[justine1559]

Gosh this post had made me so sad. Obviously I don’t know the background of what he’s done prior to being bought by the current owner or where he came from but phrases such as ‘nasty streak’, ‘very practised nappy horse’ I just don’t associate with 4 year old horses.

Firstly I don’t think you/one should ever get on a horse without a plan of what you want to do /achieve that day even if it is just: I’m going to go for a hack and ensure that my horse is off my leg and walking out. Not, I’m going to reward my horse with a canter in the field after 2 days in the arena (too much) but actually I’ll do some xc schooling as well. That’s not a reward. Secondly to go out and jump round fences without anyone on the ground is just stupid. Thirdly ‘major rows’ ‘massive row’ are not going to give you a lovely event horse. You seem to be mistaking stress and fear for ‘seriously bold’. Finally, ’it's not like he's over-faced or not ready or any of those things’ well he clearly is telling you he is over faced and not ready or at least not in the way it’s being presented to him.

At this stage and beyond, every time you ride your horse should be a positive experience for him and conflict should be avoided. This takes time, planning and patience. I really think that ljohnsonsj is right that if you don’t have the patience maybe a more experienced horse would be better.

By the way I bought a four turning 5 year old horse a few years ago who is now 7 and is turning out to be a super event horse but even now I take the same approach with her: plan, nurture, avoid conflict. She’s still learning and the last thing I want her to do is do things out of fear.

 

[Mamamia]

You haven't a clue. You took a young horse for a canter round the field after doing so well in the arena the past 2 days, you make that sound like it's meant to be a reward, all good there. But then *you* (not "we", the horse didn't decide, you did) decide to do some XC jumps, despite knowing the other rider had had "a row" with the horse doing just that earlier that week. How is asking the horse to do something that upset him not so long ago, a reward?! It was shear stupidity on your behalf and even when the horse said "NO" as loud as he could, you still didn't realise your mistake in pushing him too far and carried on doing it. You're going to end up with a sour backward horse that refuses to do any work at all if you keep going the way you are and it won't be because the horse has a "nasty streak" it'll be because you do.

I don't often respond to these types of thread but WELL SAID

 

[ljohnsonsj]

It's a shame people like the OP are allowed near young horses, but at least when the horse is 5 i'll probably be able to buy it cheap, help it love life again and have a lovely horse for not a lot of money! It's a real shame people continue to ruin nice horses with bratty behaviour.

 

[Micropony]

Why can a horse not be described as bold ?
I agree OP's horse is not bold she's not using the word to describe what is called bold in horses .

Fair challenge! I was talking about what the OP obviously meant by the term "bold" rather than the way I have heard it used previously.

 

[MissTyc]

To answer the OP's question. Yes, they grow up; yes, they change behaviour. Whether the behaviour changes into what you want it to be depends on how you respond to situations such as the one you describe.

I have sympathy. I accidentally over-faced my 6 o because she was doing so well. I am very experienced yet I misread the mare on this occasion. I finally smelled the coffee after two falls, a loose horse who nearly ran into traffic, a previously confident horse that suddenly wouldn't load or be clipped. I was so angry ... at myself. I consider myself a sympathetic horsewoman and yet on that occasion I got it completely wrong and pushed a sensitive young horse who ended up being forced to say NO very aggressively.

Plenty of people advised me to have a "row" with her about her behaviour, but instead I took it back to comfort zone. I did in-hand work, including just walking up the lane and grazing a hedge and then back to the yard, I lunged and long-reined. The day she relaxed around me, I turned her away for 6 weeks. Got back on her after those 6 weeks and what a delight. She felt new, fresh, ready. A few weeks after she went to a professional for 3 weeks and was amazing there and progressed enormously. But when she came home she had another 2 weeks off to digest all that new learning. Came back confident, powerful, and keen. Now locks onto fences in the distance that would previously had made her spook.

I feel I "get her" now. Not that long ago, I was so upset when it all went wrong. I didn't see that I was pushing her outside her comfort zone and that she could only go so far before she snapped.

 

[smja]

I have sympathy. I accidentally over-faced my 6 o because she was doing so well. I am very experienced yet I misread the mare on this occasion. I finally smelled the coffee after two falls, a loose horse who nearly ran into traffic, a previously confident horse that suddenly wouldn't load or be clipped. I was so angry ... at myself. I consider myself a sympathetic horsewoman and yet on that occasion I got it completely wrong and pushed a sensitive young horse who ended up being forced to say NO very aggressively. ....

I feel I "get her" now. Not that long ago, I was so upset when it all went wrong. I didn't see that I was pushing her outside her comfort zone and that she could only go so far before she snapped.

Well said. I don't think there's a poster on here who hasn't made a mistake with a horse at some point, but it's how we recognise our own culpability and work to change things that makes us better horsewomen/men.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am possibly not best placed to comment on this one, I have been criticised (not on HHo) for taking my pair of young horses too slowly. They both turned 5 this summer and were broken in the summer of 2015.

However, I am a great believer in the adage of 'less they do before they are 5, the more they will do after they are 15. I also think the promotion of young horse classes has facilitated the pushing of 4 and 5 year olds. A quick google will bring up lots of 4 year old competition bred horses jumping metre tracks and 5 year olds jumping 1.10 tracks. No doubt some are more than capable, many are not and all will not be mentally or physically mature.

I cannot compare mine to quality competition horses, but both of mine matured so much mentally as they hit 5 and became so much more able to concentrate, learn and perhaps most importantly, seem to enjoy their lives more especially the very nervous one.

I learnt something from the nervous horse yesterday. He was fully clipped for the first time in his life. I had done bits of him to try to get him to cope with the clippers which were a great source of stress for him, yesterday I paid a pro to do him. He coped reasonably well although it took a while to get him done as he needed breaks. After his wash and being presented with his very own first new rug, he went straight to bed and slept all afternoon. The whole experience had tired him out mentally.

I guess how quickly we produce horses is all geared at the end result be it sold for a good price, kept as a life long friend or made a mess of. Some horses land on their feet and find themselves well educated and equipped for a useful life, some don't and face who knows what.

 

[tristar]

i agree with the fact that we all made mistakes, big ones and small ones, and after, sat down and almost cried when realizing that the mistake was bought on by our own lack of thought in the approach to showing a horse what we wanted, i know i have.

i hope op will understand that she is not alone and that everyone wants them to do well, its just that it requires so much effort and sheer tact with a youngster, and no one wants op to fail or her horse to go back to his stable unhappy and confused.

 

[Velcrobum]

OP seems to have flounced off. Has not been on the forum since the snippy reply yesterday at 10.15ish.

 

[Red-1]

I don't think OP is necessarily a troll. I do think that when someone takes on a project that is a stretch for them, then it can become about them instead of being about the horse.

OP was more or less berating themselves for not being strong/bold/confident/whatever enough, and this is what I see a lot of people do.

OP, my advice would be t trust yourself more, and if you feel something is not right, such as you did not feel it was right to go canter over the "cottage" again, then do not do it.

Some people can get by on bravado. Some people genuinely have good enough timing to achieve what you cannot. But, you are you, and your horse is honest. That is what horses are, honest. He is explaining that with you, right now, he can't cope with what was asked.

Something needs to change.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I think the horse world is divided in to those who blame their horses and those who blame themselves. It is so much easier to blame the dumb animal, esp when everyone around you says that what you should do. So to go against the mould and really look to yourself and say "what am I doing wrong, what can I do to make things better" must be a hard step. If this person is really genuine I hope that a tiny crack has opened, that they might take on board the idea, that what we do affects our horses. They idea that horses are not out to be naughty is difficult to stomach if you do not want to take any responsibility but is one you need to consider when working with youngsters. Also so many people seem to be in such a hurry with young horses these days, no time to grow and develop and no time to assimilate their lessons. So sad that someone would label there own horse in such a negative way. I thought most people have horses because they are passionate about them or their sport.

 

[onemoretime]

I am possibly not best placed to comment on this one, I have been criticised (not on HHo) for taking my pair of young horses too slowly. They both turned 5 this summer and were broken in the summer of 2015.

However, I am a great believer in the adage of 'less they do before they are 5, the more they will do after they are 15. I also think the promotion of young horse classes has facilitated the pushing of 4 and 5 year olds. A quick google will bring up lots of 4 year old competition bred horses jumping metre tracks and 5 year olds jumping 1.10 tracks. No doubt some are more than capable, many are not and all will not be mentally or physically mature.

I cannot compare mine to quality competition horses, but both of mine matured so much mentally as they hit 5 and became so much more able to concentrate, learn and perhaps most importantly, seem to enjoy their lives more especially the very nervous one.

I learnt something from the nervous horse yesterday. He was fully clipped for the first time in his life. I had done bits of him to try to get him to cope with the clippers which were a great source of stress for him, yesterday I paid a pro to do him. He coped reasonably well although it took a while to get him done as he needed breaks. After his wash and being presented with his very own first new rug, he went straight to bed and slept all afternoon. The whole experience had tired him out mentally.

I guess how quickly we produce horses is all geared at the end result be it sold for a good price, kept as a life long friend or made a mess of. Some horses land on their feet and find themselves well educated and equipped for a useful life, some don't and face who knows what.

This is so very true AA and often the reason why its so hard to find a suitable young horse that has not been over done when you are out looking for one.

 

[TBmum]

I am definitely no expert on this subject, but if it were my 4 year old I probably would have taken it for a canter round the field and let it "play" in the water, maybe canter around a few jumps and if there was any suggestion of spookiness or fear of anything made a mental note to take him/her that way next time I was out in the field to get them used to them and get off and go and sit on a jump that was particularly scary to prove it was fine. But then I like to think I have a bond with my horses and with my Mare especially we take strength and confidence from each other, luckily our fears and confidence issues are different.

I would suggest lots and lots of ground work if you've only had the horse for 3 months and really get to know each other.

My horse's idea of a treat would be a mooch in hand round the cross country course so she could eat any long grass around the jumps! lol

We have all made mistakes, it's not the mistakes you make it's how you handle them and learn from them that matters!

 

[TeamChaser]

Yup, another one who has got it all wrong very recently, difference being I didn't just bash on regardless and try and bully my horse. Sure fire route to a nappy, unhappy horse.

Bought lovely 7 yr old in August who has done a bit of eventing up to BE100 but is pretty green still. Irish and bit slow to mature! Very bold and scopey, if a bit opinionated at times! I decided to chuck him in to the Grafton intermediate as lead horse as his first go at team chasing ... what an absolute knob! Atmosphere completely overwhelmed him and approaching the nearly 4ft hedge at 3 got distracted by the spectators ran down the big expanse of hedge and popped over the wing into the crowd. I didn't attempt to get him over hedge, we hacked quietly back to box once he'd calmed down so at least hopefully the experience hasn't upset him. Don't know what posessed me, he deserved better. Will now take the sensible approach I should of in the first place

OP - listen to your horse or risk ruining him for good

 

[SusieT]

Four year olds don't push boundaries if they are brought on in a sympathetic way.
Four year olds who learn that the answer to them syaing 'no or 'not sure' is someone getting after them quickly learn to be trunculant teenagers who fight back sooner to avoid worse punishment - so I suspect you need to be more forgiving, get a proper person (not an osteopath... ) i.e vet + qualified physio to look at the horse if he is really badly behaving and consider how to actually train a living animal - one who requires beating isn't going to learn anything other than that life is crap and you need to fight it

 

[AdorableAlice]

Four year olds don't push boundaries if they are brought on in a sympathetic way.
Four year olds who learn that the answer to them syaing 'no or 'not sure' is someone getting after them quickly learn to be trunculant teenagers who fight back sooner to avoid worse punishment - so I suspect you need to be more forgiving, get a proper person (not an osteopath... ) i.e vet + qualified physio to look at the horse if he is really badly behaving and consider how to actually train a living animal - one who requires beating isn't going to learn anything other than that life is crap and you need to fight it

Where is the enormous LIKE button.

There is nothing more satisfying than rearing, training and making a young horse. Watching them learn and absorb lessons and experiences, watching them gain confidence in you and then themselves. Of course every horse will have moments that need correction. I am the first to advocate the carrying of my famous blue pipe and have used it on occasion to remind 17 hands of heavyweight that my space is just that - mine.

Fair and consistent training makes horses respectful and easy, never expect a horse to understand anything you have not carefully and incrementally taught him. Most are bright and want to please you not fight with you.

 

[Goldenstar]

Where is the enormous LIKE button.

There is nothing more satisfying than rearing, training and making a young horse. Watching them learn and absorb lessons and experiences, watching them gain confidence in you and then themselves. Of course every horse will have moments that need correction. I am the first to advocate the carrying of my famous blue pipe and have used it on occasion to remind 17 hands of heavyweight that my space is just that - mine.

Fair and consistent training makes horses respectful and easy, never expect a horse to understand anything you have not carefully and incrementally taught him. Most are bright and want to please you not fight with you.

This is so true .
I bought H as a broken six months five year old in that time he had learnt a lot that it would have been better he hadn't .
He was 16.3 of big boned weak stroppy but scared bordering on angry ID .
He's now nine looks a picture he's the sweetest kindest horse who knows his job and will field master one day and bumble about the next with MrGS .
I smile every time I see him at the hounds and it's been the best fun turning him round ( -although the broncing when frightened was not pleasant ) but horsesare the best fun when it's about the journey about developing them to be the best they can .