Young horse - no steering

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Vicki_Krystal

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Hi guys, originally posted in comp riders - lots of views, little reply - so thought id try in here too!


Story is, big horse, slow developer!
5ys old.

He is quite happy about anyone being on him - happy to be lunged with jockey on top etc but when let off the lunge we have no steering at all - LITERALLY.

Last attempt led to him walking into the fence!

This horse has been mouthed and lunged lots - but panics at longlines.
Happy to be lunged with double lines but as soon as i even go to position myself behind him, whoooosh, he is off.

He plays with his bit constantly when being ridden - currently in a sweet iron fulmer snaffle.
Have tried happymouth bits but he makes them rub his mouth with his constant fussing.

Ideas please as im about to rename 'Thicko'!
 
Will he not long line with someone at his head?
Fulmer is a good start, I just exaggerate all steering aids so to go left - left rein out to side (as if I am opening a door), turn body more than normal, outside leg on etc. Right is obviously the same but the other way! Also to start with have someone lead you around, helper is for guidance not steering, but if he doesn't understand which way you want him to go then they can gently lead him (this makes more sense in my head!)
 
Is it a case of lack of self carriage, in that he has no idea how to carry his own weight and body and seems to have no idea of where his legs are?
 
He will bend his head and neck in the direction you want to go - but just keeps walking forwards!
He has been led - usually results in leader being stood on due to lack of awareness of his size.

He seems to have gained more balance recently - ive left him til 5 to break for this reason.
I loose jumped him last week and he was, surprisingly, very careful and nimble to the fences.
 
I am just doing a youngster who constantly chews and fiddles with the bit, also dosent have a lot of steering ( teeth have been checked) I have put him in a fulmer snaffle with the keepers, this has definatley helped also hacking out following an older mare round the lanes has helped with the steering.

As regards the long lining my other youngster also used to panic with the lines behind him but I started him by lunging with two reins and then moving along the side of the fence but keeping myself in view so ie to the side of the horse but still sending him forward in a straight line from voice command and then slowly moving behind the horse until he became used to it. Took a couple of go,s but he is fine now.
 
If he's constantly fussing with his mouth, it sounds like a bit change it in order.

Material wise, I don't think sweet iron is a good idea. The taste of it rusting might be why he is so unsettled in his mouth. Try stainless steel, rubber or vulcanite (vulcanite is probably better, as if he's very chewy he could take big chunks out of it), possibly copper, if you can find a solid copper mouthpiece, or try one of the alloys available such as Neue Schule Salox or Sprenger Aurigan (both copper mixes). If none of these work, you could try wrapping the bit in leather, rawhide or latex.

I'd definitely stay with a full cheek/fulmer or a large D ring, to assist with the steering.

Joint wise, I'd always recommend a double joint/French link/lozenge rather than a single joint. He'd probably fuss more in a Waterford, so I don't recommend that at all. A mullen mouth or a very low port for tongue room might be something to try, but I'd definitely have a go with a French link first.

Have a look at his mouth conformation - does he have a low palate? Fleshy bars? A large tongue? A slimmer mouthpiece is probably a good idea, as he'll have more room to close his mouth and move his tongue around.

Finally, and probably most importantly, is to get his teeth checked by an equine dental technician. Horses with wolf teeth are often hard to steer, and if he's never been seen by an EDT he probably has them - up to 70% of horses do. They can make the action of any bit very uncomfortable, and are definitely worth checking for, even if it requires sedation and local anaesthetic to remove them.


Bits I personally recommend:

http://www.dressagedeluxe.co.uk/Shop.asp?viewmode=ViewProduct&productid=437

http://www.dressagedeluxe.co.uk/Shop.asp?viewmode=ViewProduct&productid=984

Neither are cheap, but both are worth every penny. You could see if either came up used on eBay, but Dressage Deluxe are brilliant - fast, easy and I've never had any problems with them.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
 
I'd be inclined to address the issue of panicking with the long lines, long lining is a great way to teach youngsters steering. Also a great way for teaching brakes, if he panics you can drop one line and guide him back round to you with the other.

Maybe worth spending a bit of time working with a single line, and getting him used to it being around him in a non pressure environment and then gradually build up. Does he have a problem with things around his back legs in general? Are you able to touch him all over his back legs? Some horses can just be super sensitive, or if they've had a bad experience in the past may never get to the point where they will be comfortable accepting long lines I guess.
 
Thanks for those links.

I have bits with very similar mouth pieces - without the fulmer cheekpieces!

I dont really think it is the sweet iron making him worse - he does it with any bit, even managing to rub his own mouth in a happy mouth.
He will however stand in a box and not fuss at all in any bit - its only when he is ridden.
 
Keeping in view is a good point actually! I'm working on that with my youngster at the moment. He seems to think if I'm behind him he doesn't need to listen, and being big and strong tries to wander off, not always, but if I lose his focus he will. If I move out so that I'm clearly in his line of sight and give a little ask for the direction I was aiming for, he's back. With my youngster it's more about keeping his focus, very easily distracted!
 
mmel001 said:
I'd be inclined to address the issue of panicking with the long lines, long lining is a great way to teach youngsters steering. Also a great way for teaching brakes, if he panics you can drop one line and guide him back round to you with the other.

Maybe worth spending a bit of time working with a single line, and getting him used to it being around him in a non pressure environment and then gradually build up. Does he have a problem with things around his back legs in general? Are you able to touch him all over his back legs? Some horses can just be super sensitive, or if they've had a bad experience in the past may never get to the point where they will be comfortable accepting long lines I guess.
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Has scars all up his hind legs - he decided hanging himself upside down in a wire fence as a foal was a great idea!
Ok with me now touching them etc but i have wondered if his accident is why he doesnt like the long lines as he doesnt really panic about much.
 
Oh goodness! No wonder he's frightened then, that sounds awful! I'd say if you can stay safe and gradually introduce it it would be worth working with a line round the back of him, even if he's just standing and feels it on his legs, when he's comfortable with that and realises nothing bad will happen, try with him moving.
 
Vicki_Krystal said:
Thanks for those links.

I have bits with very similar mouth pieces - without the fulmer cheekpieces!

I dont really think it is the sweet iron making him worse - he does it with any bit, even managing to rub his own mouth in a happy mouth.
He will however stand in a box and not fuss at all in any bit - its only when he is ridden.
Click to expand...


Definitely sounds like wolf teeth could be part of the problem. I'd get the EDT out ASAP.
 
I had this problem with my 5 year old, also in a sweet iron full cheek snaffle, she didnt have a clue and hated long reining.

Got lead with me riding on a hack out around village, following a old steady horse, we did this twice, gradually picking up more contact and giving the "turning" aids.....

The a couple of times, following same horse, person on ground, but not being lead, then a couple of times just following with no one on ground and now she can do it all by her self!
 
have you hacked him?

my youngsters are all lead out on hacks with another horse. then eventually a rider is on their backs. then when they are ready they come off the lead and they follow the horse in front and they learn by following. then the go in front.
i dont really introduce schooling until i can stop turn and move away from my leg out on hacks as they just get confused.
i make sure they build up their confidence out hacking, get them listning, get them doing lots of transitions and lots of 'moving off the leg' and once they start to know what the leg really means, then i start schooling them.
 
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I would also be inclined to hack out if there is a suitable track and either a quiet horse or a person to walk out in front, and therefore to encourage yours to follow, as long as you can stop OK.

Have you done some work on a line, where he moves his shoulders over from your hand pressing where your toes would be? Do that each side until he understands and then use this cue when riding to turn. You should not need to use all hands to turn him, you should be able to use your legs and open the rein hand up to "open the door". Try and keep off his mouth.
 
BSJAlove said:
have you hacked him?

my youngsters are all lead out on hacks with another horse. then eventually a rider is on their backs. then when they are ready they come off the lead and they follow the horse in front and they learn by following. then the go in front.
i dont really introduce schooling until i can stop turn and move away from my leg out on hacks as they just get confused.
i make sure they build up their confidence out hacking, get them listning, get them doing lots of transitions and lots of 'moving off the leg' and once they start to know what the leg really means, then i start schooling them.
Click to expand...

BSJA Love ,you talk my kind of language. Keep out of the "school " if at all possible. Bridlepaths and hacking are the way forward. It becomes pretty obvious to the young horse what you are asking when he can see it for himself (and watch his mates do it too )
 
to teach my youngsters their left and rights, i start off by giving them the general idea of what the bit is for, ie I will stand and keep pressure and head turned to the left, whilst having my hand behind the girth line to encourage the quarters to go around (this is also the start of them learning leg aids and to yeild to pressure)

then i will pop a lunge rein on the bit pass rein over withers and just keep a gentle pressure until the horse follows the pressure and turns round.

I always start this in a stable so the horse has limited places to go to avoid the pressure.
 
you can long rein with the line over the wither instead of around the quarters?

and I would definitely get a bit with cheeks to help him.

will he yield left and right to the bit pressure when stood still?
 
millitiger said:
you can long rein with the line over the wither instead of around the quarters?

and I would definitely get a bit with cheeks to help him.

will he yield left and right to the bit pressure when stood still?
Click to expand...

or a driving saddle... the rings that the reins go through will give you more stability with contact
 
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