Young horse saddle woes -- WWYD

She is (I think) a typical Iberian. I say that with caution, because I don't know many other Spanish horses so don't know how typical she is. But I don't think she's that out there, for her breed.

Here's a photo I took the other day. Not the best because it was obviously dark, lol.

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A good fitter that is used to fitting second hand saddles should be able to point you in the direction of something that will suit even if they don't have one in stock- the you can buy one that comes with a trial (various online saddle shops do this) and you get a few days to work out if it  is right or not.
That said, not every saddler wants to sell second hand, I imagine because the margins are smaller and it requires a broader knowledge of multiple brands.
 
I'm aware that the ones who regularly come to the yard don't do much at all second-hand. A fellow livery asked about it, and was told by the saddler that it wasn't worth it for them to have a second-hand stock.
 
I know they are marmite for both people and horses but what about a Heather moffett? She uses them on her Spanish horses.

I had them for years and loved them with my last horse, current one I ended up with a wintec which I always swore I'd never touch but now love
 
https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog-and-resources/the-used-saddle-conundrum, other fitters may offer similar even if it's not in our own interest to carry used stock. The cost of carrying stock, unless it's all on sale or return, is just another layer of challenge over and above being a fitter! When cash flow slows, and it has for most fitters, it's soften the stock holding that'll kill the business first. And yes, ore I turned there would have been a half decent living selling them, but much harder now.
 
Hamsters make far cuter pets than gerbils… fyi incase you do decide to take that option.

Saddles 😫
Could you try an adjustable? Not everyone’s cup of tea I know but one has solved my saddle problems and I wasted a lot of money getting there.
 
Thing is with alot of adjustable saddles they just don't fit flat wide types well because the head plate and gullet are too narrow.

I found this with Louis and although he has a bit of a wither it's not high so his wide where the gullet is so they just sit perched on the back.

You then end up with it moving and slipping and they just don't fit.
 
See the dark rub marks on her side? That’s from the treeless saddle’s pad. Kinda weird. None on her back.

She’s not sore or tight on palpation today. She was a bit tight after I last used the saddle.
 

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Looking at you side on picture further up she looks a bit upside down and is lacking core muscle, this look can often be connected to the horse being uncomfortable in the back as they are hollowing away from the saddle.

Alot of her neck muscle is underneath and not on top again this is caused by not using the back end and using her core.

I don't know how you ride her but I would be encouraging her to work a bit rounder and get the back end working, but if she is uncomfortable with the saddle of course you need to sort that out first before addressing that.
 
My last PRE had a similar shape around age 4/5 but then grew a substantial withers by age 8/9. Not in a muscle atrophy way, but it was as if the whole thing just elevated. The "problem" was that he had a tall, wide, long withers and was shorter in his back.

A horse "getting more withers" is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes being a propane tank or not having a defined withers does not mean "good" or "better than." It depends on a few things, IMO.
 
Caol Ila said:
She is (I think) a typical Iberian. I say that with caution, because I don't know many other Spanish horses so don't know how typical she is. But I don't think she's that out there, for her breed.

Here's a photo I took the other day. Not the best because it was obviously dark, lol.

View attachment 134632
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Ok, nothing like R so a K&M might not work, but they do do wide trees I believe.
 
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What about a native pony saddle? That’s the brand. I know she’s not a native breed but her back looks quite similar to a friend’s old fashioned type Connemara (stockier kind not the modern sporty types) that had a native pony saddle.
 
I had a very one sided horse, he had a turned in foot from the knee and that shoulder and the muscle behind the wither was under developed, I know, I buy them cheap.
I always go wider, look at where the girth straps are, sometime they pinch the shoulder, as a rule I use 1st and 3rd to spread the pressure., and where the bars are, so your sat on your bum bones, in the right part of the saddle.
I looked at Balance saddles for him, but the best solution was a Korrector saddle pad, which we adjusted to suit him,
Making sure he got the right exercise the shoulder filled out.

If you have got a short backed pony I find the very old GFS worker saddle have a larger seat, but the total size of the saddle is small, I have a 15inch that you can put on a LR pony but was big enough for a tall teenager on a NF, they come in a number 5 fit.
 
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the bum end grows first then the front end grows outwards and develops the shoulder, part of that is the withers changing

if you take photos now at 5 years, and when she is 9 or 10 years old you will see the maturity results


the quiet work she does now should allow her to go through the process and she should find a new balance and start to use her back more as she carries her neck, some do it sooner, some take longer

now personally i use a wider treed saddle with suitable prolite padding, to encourage freedom, so they naturally seek the contact at some point,.

dunno really but she could be a bit bruised i use a massage machine to loosen up stiff bruised parts with muscle, and would give her a chance to recover, just incase, then when coming back to riding i would massage even by hand, and do stretches before riding then she knows its not going to hurt before you get on

perhaps a week off from riding might help

you really can learn a lot from studying your own horses back and the shape of different saddles, kind of develop an eye for widths, gullets, how different shapes of tree suit some and not others, girthing arrangements, panels etc

when using a wider saddle its important not move around a lot, it makes you focus on your stability, balance and letting the horse move under you

sure you know all this really but sometimes we forget with frustration of so many options and sheer effort!
 
I have a constantly shape changing young horse and tried a total of 12 saddles for him before admitting defeat and getting a proper fitter out.
The only thing she could fit him with was a Wintec due to the fact that the shims and gullet are all changeable and he needed different sized shims on each side.
In 15 months, I have had it re-fitted 5 times. The shims have been changed each time and the gullet twice. It's not the best saddle in the world but its saved me buying a new one each time he decides to change shape or have a growth spurt.
 
holeymoley said:
What about a native pony saddle? That’s the brand. I know she’s not a native breed but her back looks quite similar to a friend’s old fashioned type Connemara (stockier kind not the modern sporty types) that had a native pony saddle.
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NP was what I fitted many years ago, the company split in two in 2011, ahsaddles.com has an explanation in the about is section.

honetpot said:
I always go wider, look at where the girth straps are, sometime they pinch the shoulder, as a rule I use 1st and 3rd to spread the pressure., and where the bars are, so your sat on your bum bones, in the right part of the saddle.
I looked at Balance saddles for him, but the best solution was a Korrector saddle pad, which we adjusted to suit him,
Making sure he got the right exercise the shoulder filled out.

If you have got a short backed pony I find the very old GFS worker saddle have a larger seat, but the total size of the saddle is small, I have a 15inch that you can put on a LR pony but was big enough for a tall teenager on a NF, they come in a number 5 fit.
Click to expand...

Which girth straps to choose depends firstly on how many there are and where they're placed. Most wider saddles will have four straps, some have five, and 1 is the point strap, not recommended when fitting a bit wide or on a horse with topline issues.

Many pony/wider/flatter saddles will have more room in the seat so you can easily fit in a smaller size, you can see it from the wide, judging how deep the seat is, and seat width will play a part too.

Air, as in the Korrector, is intrinsically unstable, will work for some combos, especially those that are both stable, but far from all. I recommend Mattes for its shim system and sheepskin and Invictus, possibly Winderen, for its shims and d3o.

tristars said:
if you take photos now at 5 years, and when she is 9 or 10 years old you will see the maturity results
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I suggest to customers to take photos at least once a month even with an adult horse, conformation what both sides, and one along the back from the tail. Ones showing the width and stance of front and back legs are also useful.

tristars said:
when using a wider saddle its important not move around a lot, it makes you focus on your stability, balance and letting the horse move under you
Click to expand...

Fitting a bit wide can work, but there are pitfalls. Being stable as a rider, without tension, is the best thing we can do for our horse anyway, but a too wide saddle can cause issues in rising trot and canter even if you're stable. Any padding should not just lift the front to bring the saddle into correct balance but ideally should offer more support/thickness under the points and less at the upper edge of the panel at the pommel.

Using shims for the younger, or otherwise changing, horse is certainly a good option but must be done with care.
 
Caol Ila said:
My options?

1. Continue wrestling with the TreeFree saddle, but see previous paragraph. That saddle is great and I love it, but my horse does not agree. Dammit.

2. Bring out one of the local, regular saddle fitters to fit a trad treed saddle. I can probably get a £500-1200 saddle from them, but I've used a couple of them in the past for my old horse, and I didn't have the best experience. The fit was obviously not right after a week or two, and they said that they couldn't come back to the yard for another three months. However, other people on my current yard seem happy with them. Because youngsters change so much, I could be in the same boat in a year. Or two months. And be £500-1200 poorer. It was bad enough with my old horse, who was in her early 20s last time she had a treed saddle. If my young horse needs readjustment in three months, am I really gonna wait (and ride in the bloody bareback pad) for another three months? It doesn't seem feasable given she expresses her views about poorly-fitting saddles by refusing to move. Over the course of a few weeks, she slowly escalated her warning signs (and I was too stupid to see the subtle ones). But even if I was more on the ball, a saddle fitter who can't get there for the next three months is not going to solve that problem.

3. Bring out a certain forum member who I know is now in Scotland, and who I would totally trust. But she works with quite expensive saddle brands, and I'm worried I'd be in that same bloody boat in a year. Or two months. And a whole lot poorer. I don't know if the right treed saddle would resolve the young-horse-changing issue.

4. Bring out a saddle fitter who works with treeless and leather treed saddles. I used her before with Fin, but she didn't have anything that 100% suited him, which she was very honest about, and she gave me a week's trial on the best thing she had (which was still NQR but she was fine about it). Hermosa is obviously a very different sort of horse. She might have more options for Iberians. The saddles she works with are also quite pricey. While treeless saddles have a bit more adjustability, they also require the right fit, so I could still be in the same sh1tty boat and a whole lot poorer.

5. Sell the horses and buy a gerbil.

If the horse was a year or two older, I'd be more willing to just go for a super expensive saddle. But I'm mindful that 5 year olds are still very much developing. So I don't know.
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I think option 5 is the only sensible thing to do... :rolleyes:
 
I've made contact with Fran at Riding Balance, who sbloom has recommended. I tried on a few friend's saddles to get some idea of what might work, but they were terrible. Someone else at the yard has a PRE she rides in a Wintec, but that didn't look right on Hermosa. Her PRE is a very different type.
 
Have you looked at Childeric? They do a Young Horse promise so, whilst an expensive option, all adjustments until 7 are included and good deal should you wish to swap!
 
sbloom said:
NP was what I fitted many years ago, the company split in two in 2011, ahsaddles.com has an explanation in the about is section.



Which girth straps to choose depends firstly on how many there are and where they're placed. Most wider saddles will have four straps, some have five, and 1 is the point strap, not recommended when fitting a bit wide or on a horse with topline issues.

Many pony/wider/flatter saddles will have more room in the seat so you can easily fit in a smaller size, you can see it from the wide, judging how deep the seat is, and seat width will play a part too.

Air, as in the Korrector, is intrinsically unstable, will work for some combos, especially those that are both stable, but far from all. I recommend Mattes for its shim system and sheepskin and Invictus, possibly Winderen, for its shims and d3o.



I suggest to customers to take photos at least once a month even with an adult horse, conformation what both sides, and one along the back from the tail. Ones showing the width and stance of front and back legs are also useful.



Fitting a bit wide can work, but there are pitfalls. Being stable as a rider, without tension, is the best thing we can do for our horse anyway, but a too wide saddle can cause issues in rising trot and canter even if you're stable. Any padding should not just lift the front to bring the saddle into correct balance but ideally should offer more support/thickness under the points and less at the upper edge of the panel at the pommel.

Using shims for the younger, or otherwise changing, horse is certainly a good option but must be done with care.
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Hi jumping in on a thread sorry! I am in dire need of knowledgeable advice please if you have time?
If you used to fit NP many years ago, do you understand the numbers on the saddle? What would an 8F or 5F mean? Then there is a string of numbers going vertically too, do I read these up or down?
Would this be an older NP saddle with a wooden tree and specific size rather than a more modern saddle with the plastic adjustable tree-I’ve noticed some shinier NPs with horizontal numbers.

Thank you so much if you’ve time to reply!
 
UU_HORSE_UU said:
Hi jumping in on a thread sorry! I am in dire need of knowledgeable advice please if you have time?
If you used to fit NP many years ago, do you understand the numbers on the saddle? What would an 8F or 5F mean? Then there is a string of numbers going vertically too, do I read these up or down?
Would this be an older NP saddle with a wooden tree and specific size rather than a more modern saddle with the plastic adjustable tree-I’ve noticed some shinier NPs with horizontal numbers.

Thank you so much if you’ve time to reply!
Click to expand...

Generally the numbers are just a unique identifier and there's no code as such, they're sequential, read downwards when vertical, the different types are different workshops as the brand does not have its own. None of these types of brands have plastic trees, certainly not NP. Contact Saddle Exchange or AH Saddles head office and they may be able to identify the saddle for you.
 
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