Young horse saddle

[AsaP]

Hi!
I need some saddle advice.
I have a 5 year old Connie ISH X that I broke myself and been riding now for a year. He still needs quite some filling out.
I broke him and been riding him in a 16inch old very worn bates that the saddler have assured me is fine for him. However I would like to trade up to something nicer but still adjustable so I don't need to buy again.
Would anyone have tried the prestige on a younger horse, any other suggestions?
Tia

 

[Red-1]

I'm afraid that I don't think there is a saddle adjustable enough to buy one for a 5yo and never have to buy again. The adjustable ones only set to adjust the front in or out, not the shape of the tree.

If the saddle fits well, I would be sticking with that one for another year or so, unless it isn't supportive/comfortable enough for you. A saddle that the horse appreciates is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Melody Grey]

Agree with @Red-1

I have fallen foul of ‘adjustable’ saddles a few times in your situation. The problem is when you widen at the front, the tree bows and isn’t a wider version of the same. I have used the leather versions of shires optimus a few times and gotten away with widening by a single width, but any more and it’s unviable. An oldie but a goodie would be my preference, ideally not too expensive and you’ll get your money back.

I like flair as I think it gives more adjustability, particularly if you get something on the wiser side to start with. If you anticipate the horse will widen, you can always pad up in the meantime. (overseen by my saddle fitter!)

 

[catkin]

with a young growing horse they change shape in all directions so when they need a new saddle (which is frequently!!) they often need a different saddle shape not the same one adjusted. You are likely to be needing a series of different saddles, and the saddle fitter on speed-dial to keep adjusting until they are at least about 8 years old. Sorry, that's just the reality of having a baby hoss.

We've ended up with having more than one saddle, and pads, and even a pony pad/treeless available at a time - and learning as much as possible about fitting to keep the ponies happy in their saddles. The tack may not look as 'pretty' as the saddle they grow into when they are older but better to go for pony comfort before looks.

 

[maya2008]

As above, only saddle that will always fit 5yo to adult+ is treeless. I bought a Torsion for my 5yo TB that would still fit now (she is 22) and is now being used on my husband’s cobx. I had success finding an adjustable treed saddle at 8yo for jumping and it did last well, but you need to wait until they are adults really for that saddle that will last.

 

[windand rain]

I had a saddle made to measure for my 4 year old highland she is 25 now and is still ridden in it it was originally checked every 6 month then annually but has never needed any real adjustment just a bit of flocking every now and again. Still comfortable for the rider and I am hoping it will fit Kitten for her first saddle. It certainly fits dumped on her back but as she isnt backed yet it will be properly fitted once we put the girth on

 

[sbloom]

As above, only saddle that will always fit 5yo to adult+ is treeless.

Not true - even if you find the perfect treeless at 5 there's still a chance it might not fit at some point in the future. And the odd treed saddle will go from 5 to retirement.

Part of owning a horse is having to sometimes replace the saddle, no matter the horse's age. The tree width is one part of, arguably, 9 aspects of fitting a saddle. It's not so much that the tree shape changes as you widen or narrow, though it does a fraction, it's that as your horse changes shape it will need a different tree and/or panel shape. Changeable headplates are a decent solution for a horse that changes predictably seasonally, for anything else they're not always the right solution.

Personally I fit the majority of Connies into one tree shape, whatever their age.

 

[AsaP]

Thank you so much for all the advice. I guess I will put vanity aside and use my old sad looking bates for a bit longer, so far its been great and worked for a year with the narrow/medium gullet.

I am 5'7 and a 16 inch is quite small for me but dont think he can take larger until he filled out more (he is 15,1) He is my first horse and its the only saddle I purchase so I havent experienced any saddle issues, so better not ask for one!

 

[sbloom]

Forgive me, it's just my opinion, but I don't believe any horse with healthy muscle should be in a NM headplate, let alone one with that breeding. I fit Connies and rarely fit below an XW, ISHs vary a bit more but would be very rarely below a wide fit. And my remedial fits would be MW at the very narrowest, and flocked and shimmed up to balance the saddle and give the horse space to move. NM is likely to be sitting into any hollows and not allowing development.

When did you last have it checked? I would do some reading up about saddle fitting so you can decide whether you think something different is needed.

At your height that saddle won't be giving you a lot of room, even if he has no extra space you may find a saddle better suited to you too, if you're sitting well it will help him work correctly.

 

[Frumpoon]

Forgive me, it's just my opinion, but I don't believe any horse with healthy muscle should be in a NM headplate, let alone one with that breeding. I fit Connies and rarely fit below an XW, ISHs vary a bit more but would be very rarely below a wide fit. And my remedial fits would be MW at the very narrowest, and flocked and shimmed up to balance the saddle and give the horse space to move. NM is likely to be sitting into any hollows and not allowing development.

When did you last have it checked? I would do some reading up about saddle fitting so you can decide whether you think something different is needed.

At your height that saddle won't be giving you a lot of room, even if he has no extra space you may find a saddle better suited to you too, if you're sitting well it will help him work correctly.

That’s really interesting Steph…I was just about to start looking for a narrow medium saddle for my TB but what you say makes sense. He’s only been back in work 2 weeks and I’ve got him in devoucoux medium wide with a Lemieux prosorb 3 pocket pad but I was worried that it was sinking too much and moving around under my capacious backside

 

[sbloom]

That’s really interesting Steph…I was just about to start looking for a narrow medium saddle for my TB but what you say makes sense. He’s only been back in work 2 weeks and I’ve got him in devoucoux medium wide with a Lemieux prosorb 3 pocket pad but I was worried that it was sinking too much and moving around under my capacious backside

You see this is where it gets dangerous, there are things other than width than can make a saddle unstable. Devoucous have pretty upright rails, this allows the saddle to drop in front even when it's not too wide, and/or squirrel around sideways, or slip. Would your fitter look at photos before you get on? If not you'd probably best have them set it up for you asap.

Just look at the headplates for NM online, should any horse be that shape? If a horse is hollow the angle of the rails should bridge that hollowness, not sit into the narrower upper angle where they'll dig into the muscle below. Never sacrifice contact/pressure for clearance.

 

[AsaP]

Hi,

Thank you for your concern. To be honest the saddle is probably not a true NM as its old and does not keep shape as well (have a pad to correct this on advice from my saddler) Saying this my horse is lean, he comes from a dealer and had very little muscles and fat when I got him.
I have the full team of saddler, chiro, nutritionist, dentist etc that check him regularly, no expenses spared on his health My trainer thinks the saddle is fine for me at this stage (working hard on the basics) and I was just wondering if I should get the 2,3K new prestige or not- I guess I'll wait for at least 6 months so he had time to grow some more.

 

[Frumpoon]

You see this is where it gets dangerous, there are things other than width than can make a saddle unstable. Devoucous have pretty upright rails, this allows the saddle to drop in front even when it's not too wide, and/or squirrel around sideways, or slip. Would your fitter look at photos before you get on? If not you'd probably best have them set it up for you asap.

Just look at the headplates for NM online, should any horse be that shape? If a horse is hollow the angle of the rails should bridge that hollowness, not sit into the narrower upper angle where they'll dig into the muscle below. Never sacrifice contact/pressure for clearance.

Thanks so much for this

I'm trying to picture how upright rails make the wretched thing sink....I'll honestly use whatever saddle is best for him, I'm not wedded to the devoucoux

What brands do you like for this type of horse? I know you use the AH for round ponies like my other horse but a slim high withered TB with a curve to his back? Something with short, backward facing points....are we back to the old Barnsby whitaker territory?

 

[sbloom]

Thanks so much for this

I'm trying to picture how upright rails make the wretched thing sink....I'll honestly use whatever saddle is best for him, I'm not wedded to the devoucoux

What brands do you like for this type of horse? I know you use the AH for round ponies like my other horse but a slim high withered TB with a curve to his back? Something with short, backward facing points....are we back to the old Barnsby whitaker territory?

I do fit that shape of horse now but only with one brand, and used would be rare. Otherwise I can't help at all I'm afraid.

Upright rails give a pivot point, partly because they always curve inwards too. The more you spread the pressure the more stable the saddle, and the tree being the right shape is the single most important bit, if the rails are more upright than the horse then you lack contact and have uneven pressure.

 

[Frumpoon]

I do fit that shape of horse now but only with one brand, and used would be rare. Otherwise I can't help at all I'm afraid.

Upright rails give a pivot point, partly because they always curve inwards too. The more you spread the pressure the more stable the saddle, and the tree being the right shape is the single most important bit, if the rails are more upright than the horse then you lack contact and have uneven pressure.

Thank you so much

Do most british kitemark trees have upright rails or is it mainly the continental close contact trees?

 

[sbloom]

They all vary, it's just that continental close contact saddles are notorious for it. I fit with 5 trees for AH and two more for my new brand and all have wider rails, flatter too in the case of the AH trees. There are 4 dimensions of rail shape:

Width - how far apart are they? Some are hideously narrow, so often in the saddles advertised as having a narrow twist for the rider, but fairly universal in some types of saddles as per above.

Upright - the angle from side to side of each rail, so does the lower edge press into the horse's back, or is it at the same angle as the horse's back, avoiding any pressure?

Curved - two aspects to this - do they kink inwards? This is generally the narrow twists, but even wider rails can be straighter or more curved. Then how is the shape front to back, this is more overall tree shape, is it for a wither etc, but the rails are involved.

For instance when looking at a native type curvy back with low wither, a saddle designed for a high wither will have different shaped rails in most of the dimensions above from what is needed. It will also be designed to be in balance with a big rear gusset, which can stabilise some of the issues generated by curvier/narrower rails, and will dig in on a curved back. Hence I go slightly mental when I see photos of these shapes accompanied by the recommendation for a curvy or even banana shaped tree. Nooooooo!

 

[Dyllymoo]

If you haven't already, please look at Louisa Cuomo Saddles (https://louisamariacuomosaddles.com/). She is based in Kent but travels all over the country.

She does only sell her own saddles but these saddles are made to fit horses better. They aren't stupidly expensive either. Have a look on her facebook page as well as she does a lot of analysis work with horses and people.

 

[Frumpoon]

This rail business is a new fresh level of hell

 

[sbloom]

This rail business is a new fresh level of hell

Sorry! It is difficult because even an experienced fitter can slightly struggle to identify the rail shape from inspecting a saddle unless they drop the panel etc, but certainly for non-saddle fitters it's the most challenging part as you can't see them, but they're critical and not talked about enough.

 

[Frumpoon]

Sorry! It is difficult because even an experienced fitter can slightly struggle to identify the rail shape from inspecting a saddle unless the drop the panel etc, but certainly for non-saddle fitters it's the most challenging part as you can't see them, but they're critical and not talked about enough.

The advice is much, much appreciated!!

My brain is confuzzled now though....