Young horse throwing/tossing head/opening mouth

[happyhorse978]

Hello, just wondering if anyone can give any tips/advice from past experiences I would be really grateful

I have got a new horse (bought him in December last year). He is an absolutely lovely boy. He has literally just turned 5 years old last week.He was backed in Ireland in October and came over to UK and the lady who I bought him from did a little bit of gentle hacking and schooling with him before I had him. He's a really good lad but we are experiencing some head tossing/throwing, he has done this slightly since I have had him but it has got a little bit more prominent.

It only seems to be toward the end of the ride, so I am thinking it is when he gets a bit physically tired/mentally tired perhaps. When he throws his head around and opens his mouth, I try to just ignore him and send him forward but it is quite difficult as he really does throw his head up which makes my steering go completely! I try to follow his mouth with my hands and just send him forward although this is easier said than done! For example, about 30 mins into a hack he will start to do it and doesnt really stop doing it until we are home (he does not rush home, I dont think it is because he knows he is on his way home, I think its because hes tired). We aren't doing long rides (hacks are usually 30 mins although we did go out for one hour yesterday and the head tossing was definitely 'more' on the way back). He is fine if i push him into trot, he doesnt do it then. He is just in a simple cavasson noseband done up very loosely and a simple D ring snaffle with a nice lozenge. He does not do this on the lunge. He does do it in the school but again this can be toward the end of the ride when he may be getting tired and bored. I limit his schooling sessions to 20-30 minutes as i know this is hard work for him as he is not 'established' , he is still very green. I have started carrying a schooling stick with me out hacking in the hope that a little tickle behind my leg when he does it may just send him forward enough to stop him doing it, although I was concentrating so hard on yesterday's hack trying to keep him going forward that i totally forgot to use it!! Will have to rememer to try it next time.

He is having the physio look at him tomorrow and he has got his teeth booked in in a couple of weeks time to be checked/done. He has had his saddle fitted to him.

I am trying not to make a big deal of it and just hope it goes away as he becomes fitter/stronger but i dont want it to become a 'thing' so just wondering if anyone has any ideas/tips to help us through this! Sorry for the long post but i tried to include all info

thank you!!

 

[Cortez]

Why don't you ask your instructor?

 

[happyhorse978]

-

 

[Cortez]

Because I dont have one yet. He is not strong enough yet to have lessons. As mentioned in my post I limit his schooling sessions to about 20 mins as he finds it hard work as he is not yet balanced etc. He has only been backed about 3 or 4 months so still trying to install the basics and just get him travelling forward softly, he certainly isnt strong/fit enough for lessons in the school yet.

Now is precisely when you need lessons, in the beginning when the horse (and you) need help in establishing the basics. A good instructor will not ask the horse (or you) to do more than you are capable of. Strange attitude.

 

[countryal]

From personal experience, I think its really important to get an instructor involved early on with a young horse. I start having lessons with mine a few weeks after she was backed. At first all we did was walk work (straightness, turning, standing square etc) and ground work until she was going enough to do more. This help iron out any habits early on, and remind about those little niggles that can lead to long term issues.

Having teeth checked may be a good start, or a bit check. The bit may not now be suitable

 

[happyhorse978]

Forgot to mention, he is also in a running martingale

 

[happyhorse978]

From personal experience, I think its really important to get an instructor involved early on with a young horse. I start having lessons with mine a few weeks after she was backed. At first all we did was walk work (straightness, turning, standing square etc) and ground work until she was going enough to do more. This help iron out any habits early on, and remind about those little niggles that can lead to long term issues.

Having teeth checked may be a good start, or a bit check. The bit may not now be suitable

Thank you very much for this, I will certainly have a look into it Really appreciate your help

 

[Cortez]

Is there really any need to be rude? "strange attitude"? Could you not have put your views across in a nicer way instead of making someone feel inadequate?

I will look into getting an instructor for lessons but as I dont have a 'regular' one I am just unsure of who to use incase they do come out and push for more than he is capable of and with him being so young I dont want that. But i will have a look/ask around locally to see who is reccomended. He really is very very green, particularly in the school so dont want just 'anbody'

Well I could, but could you not have been a bit more sensible? You asked for advice, rejected advice (which was good advice), and were a bit rude yourself, so comes around/goes around. Good luck to your horse, and with getting a GOOD (and patient) instructor.

 

[happyhorse978]

Thank you for your advice

 

[ihatework]

This sounds very common for young green horses! Physical and/or mental tiredness.
They change so quickly it’s always worth ruling out teeth/saddle/muscular soreness.

Then a standing martingale is generally standard kit for me.

How to ride them is a little nuanced, so good eyes on the ground is helpful. Yes sending them forwards is often the answer/part of the answer but equally sometimes that puts them out of balance and exacerbates it. They need to be in front of leg but sometimes taking the power down a notch helps.

 

[happyhorse978]

This sounds very common for young green horses! Physical and/or mental tiredness.
They change so quickly it’s always worth ruling out teeth/saddle/muscular soreness.

Then a standing martingale is generally standard kit for me.

How to ride them is a little nuanced, so good eyes on the ground is helpful. Yes sending them forwards is often the answer/part of the answer but equally sometimes that puts them out of balance and exacerbates it. They need to be in front of leg but sometimes taking the power down a notch helps.

Thank you very much that is really helpful!

 

[sbloom]

So often we don't prepare our horses well enough for being ridden - we do some groundwork, some lunging, we take it "slowly", then we back them and start riding for short periods. We do what we've done for decades/centuries, but miss some of the things that were utilised when horses were backed and kept sound for life. Bear in mind breeding was different - even cobs are bred to be more elastic now, we all want freedom of movement, and this generates its own issues. I'm not saying your hurrying, it's just we know so much more about how this should be done in the best possible way, it's just not widely accepted yet.

What's missing is that extra bit over and above acclimatisation, strengthening and conditioning - posture, and avoidance of compensatory movement patterns. Head tossing can be nerve impingement, but whenever a problem isn't shown on the lunge it's highly likely the horse is struggling carrying weight.

I would be doing that sort of groundwork alone if you can't find anyone to help (I have a sheet of groundwork links I can email if you pm me your address) - putting the time in now, being patient, will pay off in the long run.

 

[happyhorse978]

So often we don't prepare our horses well enough for being ridden - we do some groundwork, some lunging, we take it "slowly", then we back them and start riding for short periods. We do what we've done for decades/centuries, but miss some of the things that were utilised when horses were backed and kept sound for life. Bear in mind breeding was different - even cobs are bred to be more elastic now, we all want freedom of movement, and this generates its own issues. I'm not saying your hurrying, it's just we know so much more about how this should be done in the best possible way, it's just not widely accepted yet.

What's missing is that extra bit over and above acclimatisation, strengthening and conditioning - posture, and avoidance of compensatory movement patterns. Head tossing can be nerve impingement, but whenever a problem isn't shown on the lunge it's highly likely the horse is struggling carrying weight.

I would be doing that sort of groundwork alone if you can't find anyone to help (I have a sheet of groundwork links I can email if you pm me your address) - putting the time in now, being patient, will pay off in the long run.

Thank you very much! I think it is when he is slightly tired (obviously carrying the weight of a rider harder work, although I am only a lightweight rider, but I do understand this is still harder for a young horse especially). I do quite a lot of ground work with him but I would be really interesting in trying the ground work you mentioned, I will message you my email address, thank you so much!!

 

[sbloom]

I do quite a lot of ground work with him but I would be really interesting in trying the ground work you mentioned, I will message you my email address, thank you so much!!

Sent (check junk if it's not there )

 

[happyhorse978]

Sent (check junk if it's not there )

Thank you!!

 

[Boulty]

Does sounds like it may just be a tiredness thing either mentally or physically but good idea to get teeth and bit fit checked as a start and then move on to saddle and back if they're ok and definitely get some instructor input. A really random thought is do just ask him to work "properly" ie in whatever outline is appropriate for his stage of training for the full ride? If so probably worth keeping giving him little stretching breaks where he can have a longer rein for 30 seconds or so when safe to do so (ie maybe not on a really busy stretch of road) as it's hard work for any horse maintaining an outline / self carriage for that long, especially a young one.

I'm having almost the opposite conundrum with mine atm in that he's very head throwy (well mainly suddenly trying to swing it to the side to a ridiculous degree) when we first set off out hacking, especially if on our own, but he then settles and starts to listen a bit more after 20 - 30 minutes. I think mine's a combination of being a bit worried if he's on his own (or that he's in a new place if in company) & being distracted / inattentive / a bit ignorant at times. He's actually better if I DO ask him to carry himself properly as that takes up all the attention that he would like to devote to gawking at things (although as I point out to him the design of his eyesight makes it totally unnecessary to snake his entire neck about to admire the scenery!). I also find widening my hands slightly when he's trying to do it helps as otherwise I end up with a lot of contact on the side he's throwing his head away from and none on the one in the direction he's throwing his head in. Mine is 6 but a very babyish 6 in some ways... Frustratingly I put a lot of effort into getting him happy on a load of routes led & on longlines and then moved yards when he'd only been properly backed a few months so literally everywhere is new to him!

 

[Bobthecob15]

Assume his teeth have been checked and no wolf teeth etc?

 

[happyhorse978]

Does sounds like it may just be a tiredness thing either mentally or physically but good idea to get teeth and bit fit checked as a start and then move on to saddle and back if they're ok and definitely get some instructor input. A really random thought is do just ask him to work "properly" ie in whatever outline is appropriate for his stage of training for the full ride? If so probably worth keeping giving him little stretching breaks where he can have a longer rein for 30 seconds or so when safe to do so (ie maybe not on a really busy stretch of road) as it's hard work for any horse maintaining an outline / self carriage for that long, especially a young one.

I'm having almost the opposite conundrum with mine atm in that he's very head throwy (well mainly suddenly trying to swing it to the side to a ridiculous degree) when we first set off out hacking, especially if on our own, but he then settles and starts to listen a bit more after 20 - 30 minutes. I think mine's a combination of being a bit worried if he's on his own (or that he's in a new place if in company) & being distracted / inattentive / a bit ignorant at times. He's actually better if I DO ask him to carry himself properly as that takes up all the attention that he would like to devote to gawking at things (although as I point out to him the design of his eyesight makes it totally unnecessary to snake his entire neck about to admire the scenery!). I also find widening my hands slightly when he's trying to do it helps as otherwise I end up with a lot of contact on the side he's throwing his head away from and none on the one in the direction he's throwing his head in. Mine is 6 but a very babyish 6 in some ways... Frustratingly I put a lot of effort into getting him happy on a load of routes led & on longlines and then moved yards when he'd only been properly backed a few months so literally everywhere is new to him!

Thankyou so much that is really helpful!! I will definitely try that Thankyou so much good luck with your boy sounds like you’re on the right track xx

 

[happyhorse978]

Assume his teeth have been checked and l wolf teeth etc?

Hello his teeth are booked in to be done by equine dentist in 2 weeks (that’s the soonest they could fit me in) so will be interesting to see if all ok xx

 

[Bobthecob15]

Hello his teeth are booked in to be done by equine dentist in 2 weeks (that’s the soonest they could fit me in) so will be interesting to see if all ok xx

We tried a horse once that did the same thing as soon as a contact was taken, he had a wolf tooth! The vet spotted it straight away. It may not be that but was my first thought given his young age etc too. The fact he doesn't do it on the lunge made me think it might be teeth related too. Fingers crossed for you!

 

[happyhorse978]

We tried a horse once that did the same thing as soon as a contact was taken, he had a wolf tooth! The vet spotted it straight away. It may not be that but was my first thought given his young age etc too. The fact he doesn't do it on the lunge made me think it might be teeth related too. Fingers crossed for you!

Thankyou so much! X

 

[SEL]

My little cob is rising 5. His canine teeth have been a bit problematic as they've come through and he's had the odd week off with red, swollen gums. It's definitely worth regular teeth checks. I use the vet so she can sedate and have a really good look. About to organise another session because he's gone a bit one sided and I suspect needs a wolf tooth out.

I also don't do a huge amount of schooling with him. My warm ups are a little hack or a wander round the fields with walk, halt transitions and changes in tempo. Lots of stretchy breaks after trot work. I'd rather he did a small amount well than get tired. When he does get tired then I get the head snaking, unsettled stuff too.

 

[sbloom]

Anything that is there for the first 10-20 minutes and then goes - stiffness, headshaking etc - can be discomfort. For example it can indicate a saddle fit issue as feeling is though to diminish under high pressure areas after that time period. I would also say that horses going in the correct form for 20 minutes are building strength in that asymmetry or dropped back or muscles they use for head tossing etc. I'd still want to get to the bottom of it.

 

[happyhorse978]

My little cob is rising 5. His canine teeth have been a bit problematic as they've come through and he's had the odd week off with red, swollen gums. It's definitely worth regular teeth checks. I use the vet so she can sedate and have a really good look. About to organise another session because he's gone a bit one sided and I suspect needs a wolf tooth out.

I also don't do a huge amount of schooling with him. My warm ups are a little hack or a wander round the fields with walk, halt transitions and changes in tempo. Lots of stretchy breaks after trot work. I'd rather he did a small amount well than get tired. When he does get tired then I get the head snaking, unsettled stuff too.

Thank you for your help! He does only do it toward the end of rides so i think it probably is tiredness but getting his teeth checked in a couple of weeks anyway to be sure x

 

[happyhorse978]

Anything that is there for the first 10-20 minutes and then goes - stiffness, headshaking etc - can be discomfort. For example it can indicate a saddle fit issue as feeling is though to diminish under high pressure areas after that time period. I would also say that horses going in the correct form for 20 minutes are building strength in that asymmetry or dropped back or muscles they use for head tossing etc. I'd still want to get to the bottom of it.

He doesnt do it at the start of rides, it is just toward the end of the ride it seems at the moment xx

 

[sbloom]

He doesnt do it at the start of rides, it is just toward the end of the ride it seems at the moment xx

It wasn't a comment directed at your specific situation.

 

[millitiger]

I'm obviously a softie... when my boy was younger and I felt he was tired, I used to get off and lead him home.
I don't see the point in pushing on when they're tired and risking muscle soreness and a stale brain.

If you don't want to lead, firstly I would keep the rides a little shorter but if he does start throwing his head about, I find it helpful to stand up in your stirrups and have a long rein, so they can stretch their muscles under the saddle. Just keep your weight back when you do it so you don't risk tripping.

 

[Rowreach]

This sounds very common for young green horses! Physical and/or mental tiredness.
They change so quickly it’s always worth ruling out teeth/saddle/muscular soreness.

Then a standing martingale is generally standard kit for me.

How to ride them is a little nuanced, so good eyes on the ground is helpful. Yes sending them forwards is often the answer/part of the answer but equally sometimes that puts them out of balance and exacerbates it. They need to be in front of leg but sometimes taking the power down a notch helps.

This. Especially in light of the information given in the OP. A perfectly reasonable question which for some reason elicited some rather prickly responses.

 

[happyhorse978]

I'm obviously a softie... when my boy was younger and I felt he was tired, I used to get off and lead him home.
I don't see the point in pushing on when they're tired and risking muscle soreness and a stale brain.

If you don't want to lead, firstly I would keep the rides a little shorter but if he does start throwing his head about, I find it helpful to stand up in your stirrups and have a long rein, so they can stretch their muscles under the saddle. Just keep your weight back when you do it so you don't risk tripping.

Thankyou so much I will give this a try! X

 

[happyhorse978]

This. Especially in light of the information given in the OP. A perfectly reasonable question which for some reason elicited some rather prickly responses.

Thankyou so much!!
you’ve all been really helpful and to the prickly responses, I’ve removed their comments as there really was no need haha!! Thankyou again x