Young Irish draught and groundwork

[bkneil]

Hi. I have a rising 3 ID that I’ve had a year. In that time she’s gone from being uncatchable, headshy and tricky to put a halter on to first at the gate, puts her head in her halter, not in the least headshy and very cuddly.
My question is about leading. Mostly she’s good as gold but just the last few weeks she’s pulling forwards at odd times wanting to rush in to her feed ( I have stopped putting it in the stable ready) or to catch up to another horse. She’s huge so is obviously strong. I can get her to stop (just) back up, then move forward again when I want her to. Trouble is, she thinks when she moves forward again she needs to make up for lost time so pulls more. Obviously I need to stop this and instil better manners before she really starts pushing me around but not sure where to start. She’s got a super nature, is kind, loves attention, follows me everywhere in the field and is quite bold (she’s on a farm so has experienced a lot of ‘firsts’ the last 12 months). I’d like her to stay this way. The field she’s in with my other 2 is about 15 acres but she canters over the second she spots me.
I’ll only have myself to blame if I end up with a bolshy strong huge horse. She has the makings of a superstar though I am biased. Any advice appreciated

 

[bkneil]

My girl

 

[AmyMay]

Dually head collar.

 

[bkneil]

I was thinking about that or a rope one. I’m used to rope ones and have read some posts saying the dually doesn’t always loosen when the horse yields to pressure and you have to do it by hand? Have you found that?

 

[AmyMay]

I was thinking about that or a rope one. I’m used to rope ones and have read some posts saying the dually doesn’t always loosen when the horse yields to pressure and you have to do it by hand? Have you found that?

I actually don’t like them, but many seem to rate them (dually’s). But yes I suppose a rope halter would work on the same premise.

 

[dottylottie]

i’d try a rope one, particularly if you’re doing groundwork with her. my 4 year old is far smaller at 13.2hh, but was very similar when i got her 6 months ago - with the help of a lot of videos by steve young and miri hackett, she’s now a very good girl for the most part! we do short but regular sessions in the arena, practicing stopping the second i stop and backing up from a slight wiggle of the rope, yielding quarters etc.

 

[bkneil]

i’d try a rope one, particularly if you’re doing groundwork with her. my 4 year old is far smaller at 13.2hh, but was very similar when i got her 6 months ago - with the help of a lot of videos by steve young and miri hackett, she’s now a very good girl for the most part! we do short but regular sessions in the arena, practicing stopping the second i stop and backing up from a slight wiggle of the rope, yielding quarters etc.

 

[bkneil]

Thank you. Oh yes Steve Young is fantastic . Not heard of the other one but will have a look

 

[bkneil]

I’ve also got a local lady that teaches Trec who thinks inhand lessons would be good for her. They are an hour long though which might be a bit much for a baby

 

[spotty_pony2]

I’ve also got a local lady that teaches Trec who thinks inhand lessons would be good for her. They are an hour long though which might be a bit much for a baby

Maybe see if she can offer you a shorter session due to her age?

 

[dottylottie]

Thank you. Oh yes Steve Young is fantastic . Not heard of the other one but will have a look

she mainly posts on her patreon, but at £6 a month i found it very worthwhile!

 

[AppyLover1996]

I'd go for a rope halter over a dually - I have both and much prefer the rope halter - the dually I find doesn't always offer instant release of pressure (I've been on several IH clinics and also had private lessons with someone trained in IH to make sure I'm using it right), and I find the dually overall a bit more of a faff to get on....

Miri Hackett is a lovely person to follow - deffo worth doing - she gets results in a nice way without overfacing the horse or ignoring what the horse is saying.

 

[ihatework]

I’ve also got a local lady that teaches Trec who thinks inhand lessons would be good for her. They are an hour long though which might be a bit much for a baby

If she is suggesting an hour long session for a 3yo then she is someone not to engage with I’m afraid, because she is obviously clueless.

10 mins max per training session at that age! Quality over quantity.

At this stage I’d just use a rope headcollar (tbh I use them 100% when handling young horses from yearling on).

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Does she fully respect your space in the school when doing groundwork? Backing up out of your space, yielding a shoulder and hind quarters, stops when you stop, turns when you turn?

I have done a fair amount of work on this with Dex and now if he gets ahead of me (anticipating his large haynet) I stop and say 'ah' and he will stop and back himself up so he's behind me. I like to take things slow and ensure understanding when training, but with something as big and in my pocket as Dex I did have to get a bit loud with my body movement when he went to blindly walk straight into me, so don't be afraid of it.

Agree that an hours session is too long, unless you're willing to give her a good amount of break in the middle and essentially lose some value for money.

 

[sbloom]

I think over an hour it may be possible to have periods where all you do is walk her (good exercise) and periods where she can stand and switch off, there are always things to be learned from a good trainer, and the good Trec trainers are worth their weight (one is a very good friend of mine).

I think I would go NH direction for a baby, mostly, plus a little postural work as much NH work can work against it, for instance disengaging the HQs is useful, but harmful to posture and movement if used regularly as a matter of course. Yasmin Stuart has a new posture/groundwork course out I think, she's a vet physio. Vet Physio Phyle on FB would be another good one, and EquitopiaCenter.com has a ton of resources, cheap membership, that you may find useful. I think developing your eye for movement, and helping them that way, is as important as the baby/handling stuff. The more balanced a horse the easier they are to handle, and of course to ride.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Firstly do some groundwork sessions with a trainer. This will help get an external perspective on her behaviour and yours to understand what is and isn't working.

With mine I use a game of Simon says. If I say his name, followed by a command, and he gets it right he earns a treat which could be just a wither scratch. Initially a dually didn't work for mine so I used a stallion chain through his mouth, like a bit.

We've taught him the 'steady' and woah commands and now we work on him staying at my shoulder without a command.

The secret is knowing when he isn't in an agitated state and therefore is in the right frame of mind to facilitate learning. Then it's endless repetition every time I lead him anywhere we practice.

There are still days when he gets a bit overexcited but now when those days happen he curls up like valegro and trots at my shoulder but he doesn't pull away from me and he doesn't forget I'm there. He will still stop and back up if I ask.

A trainer also helped me to see that I walk too slowly for him and I need to move with a bit more purpose . The steady command has been amazing when switching to saddle and him struggling to not rush downhill when gravity moves his bum for him!

 

[skint1]

I have a large Irish Draft mare. 99% of the time she is very good, very polite to handle... however, she is very affected by her hormones and at times this makes her quite a challenge. There have been times I am almost lunging her up the track from her field to the stable as she has developed a random attachment to one of her yard mates and that is literally all she has on her mind- getting to her friend. Luckily it doesn't take her long to get over it and get back to her normal chilled self, but it can be quite scary.

I use a rope halter for her anyway (and a separate leather one for tying on the yard) , it does seem to help because you don't have to use a lot of force, and you can be quite precise with your asks and it just reminds a rather large horse with their blood up that a rather puny human is walking with them - we also do a lot of groundwork so she is used to wearing it for that. I have got her a couple of really lovely ones from a company called Horse Leads UK. She makes some really unique and beautiful, yet practical and robust, pieces. That said, when my mare been really bad, I have led her in her bridle. I've personally never used a chiffney, so can't comment on that.

I can recommend Gabi Nuerhor, Warwick Schiller, Tristan Tucker, Steve Young as online resources that I have found helpful in understanding and dealing with this behaviour. Best of luck.

 

[Mfh999]

Personally, having dealt with several bolshy youngsters of all sizes (but the worse was a Cleveland Bay, lol, that was a real tank!)in my time; I'd go for a chain over the nose every time. It only comes into play when they're acting up and releases immediately they stop as long as you remember to relax your hand immediately they stop yanking at you. I prefer to use a leather headcollar that has a fixed back ring as the sliding rings are a waste of time and very limited in their action. Depending how long the chain is either clip the chain to the offside side nose fitting, thread over the noseband once and then thread through the nearside nose fitting from the inside and through the back ring or if it's long enough, start from the back ring, as above and back to the back ring. The chain needs to be long enough to slip through the fittings easily. If they play up, stop, give a short sharp yank and relax again; they do very soon learn to behave and it keeps you safe which is the main thing. I also find it helps to have a longer leadrein than normal. It takes less than a minute to fit and you can leave it in place as you take the headcollar off. Failing that, I've also had good results from a halter and lead made of thin tow rope but do always remember to wear gloves whatever you use.

 

[bkneil]

I'd go for a rope halter over a dually - I have both and much prefer the rope halter - the dually I find doesn't always offer instant release of pressure (I've been on several IH clinics and also had private lessons with someone trained in IH to make sure I'm using it right), and I find the dually overall a bit more of a faff to get on....

Miri Hackett is a lovely person to follow - deffo worth doing - she gets results in a nice way without overfacing the horse or ignoring what the horse is saying.

Thank you. I’ve ordered a rope halter, they are what I’m used to so I think I will use one more effectively than a dually. I was brought up by old school horse people but have always taken an interest in IH. It achieves good results more kindly and teaches you more about the horse. My Irish cob had been treated so harshly in Ireland, Kelly Marks books were my best friend for a few years.

 

[bkneil]

Does she fully respect your space in the school when doing groundwork? Backing up out of your space, yielding a shoulder and hind quarters, stops when you stop, turns when you turn?

I have done a fair amount of work on this with Dex and now if he gets ahead of me (anticipating his large haynet) I stop and say 'ah' and he will stop and back himself up so he's behind me. I like to take things slow and ensure understanding when training, but with something as big and in my pocket as Dex I did have to get a bit loud with my body movement when he went to blindly walk straight into me, so don't be afraid of it.

Agree that an hours session is too long, unless you're willing to give her a good amount of break in the middle and essentially lose some value for money.

Yes she does largely but it’s a work in process. She backs up better in the stable when I give her food better than my hill pony does. But also nearly knocked me over the other day turning round as she forgets how big she is.

 

[bkneil]

Personally, having dealt with several bolshy youngsters of all sizes (but the worse was a Cleveland Bay, lol, that was a real tank!)in my time; I'd go for a chain over the nose every time. It only comes into play when they're acting up and releases immediately they stop as long as you remember to relax your hand immediately they stop yanking at you. I prefer to use a leather headcollar that has a fixed back ring as the sliding rings are a waste of time and very limited in their action. Depending how long the chain is either clip the chain to the offside side nose fitting, thread over the noseband once and then thread through the nearside nose fitting from the inside and through the back ring or if it's long enough, start from the back ring, as above and back to the back ring. The chain needs to be long enough to slip through the fittings easily. If they play up, stop, give a short sharp yank and relax again; they do very soon learn to behave and it keeps you safe which is the main thing. I also find it helps to have a longer leadrein than normal. It takes less than a minute to fit and you can leave it in place as you take the headcollar off. Failing that, I've also had good results from a halter and lead made of thin tow rope but do always remember to wear gloves whatever you use.

Thank you. I’m not against a chain - it’s the only thing that stops our hill pony rearing when loading (not at all scared, travels well but is a pony ). I will try a rope halter first though and hope that does the trick. She’s only been strong a couple of times, usually is a big goofy lump that plods along, but want to stop it before it really starts. Thanks for the gloves reminder, I’m terrible for forgetting things like that

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Yes she does largely but it’s a work in process. She backs up better in the stable when I give her food better than my hill pony does. But also nearly knocked me over the other day turning round as she forgets how big she is.

I understand that they don't realise but it may be worth reminding her how big she is, a wave of the arms and a bit of noise even if she accidentally bumps you or steps in your space. She can't just respect your space when there is something in it for her, it's beneficial at this stage to make sure they are consciously aware all the time you are around, big babies can be clumsy but if you don't tell her, she won't know.

She is gorgeous by the way, just my cup of tea!

 

[bkneil]

That makes sense re space and not knowing if I don’t tell her. Thank you. She is gorgeous, I get lots of comments from people that see her. With her temperament too, everyone falls in love with her. Even the dealer stays in touch and was fussy about who bought her and my husband loves her!!

 

[Birker2020]

Dually head collar.

I loved my dually, used to lunge and jump under saddle with the dually as well as hack down lanes and long rein down lanes and in the school with the dually. It's a great bit of kit. I had more control in the dually than I did in the NS pelham.