younge horse Hacking help..

[edgedem]

Yesterday i was completely determined to go for a decent hack on Dolly. my friend said she is hacking her recently backed 4 year old up to an hour! and Dolls being 5 and recently reschooled shouldnt find it too strenuous at walk. up until then we have been only hacking 10-15 minutes.

but we went down the bridle path by my house yesterday, which is quite muddy, and she was really good for about 5 minutes before she planted her feet, spun around and headed for home, i let her walk back then urged her down another (less muddy) bridle path where she did the same thing again, i got off, walked her further (past some of the livery horses on the opposite side of the river) and then carried on, she wasnt having any of it and spun again.

she lowers her head and heaves herself around.. i can do nothing to get her going in the right direction other than pulling quite hard on the left reign ( ) spinning and trying to urge her on. we went in circles for 10 minutes before i gave up and let her lead us home.

How can is stop this without completely yanking on her mouth.. surely that isnt good? what do other people do with young horses, how are they taught? i also urge her round with schooling whip and my leg but she sets her neck against the rein and pulls anyway!

feel sorry for her because im obviously not doing something right in teaching her any help and guidance would be so much appreciated.

 

[AmyMay]

Take a friend on a sensible, older horse to help you.

 

[edgedem]

thanks for your reply.

thats the dream, being the easiest thing to keep her going, but i dont have any horsey friends (new to area and horse owning!) apart form the young horse friend. she did say she will come with when hers is reshod next week.

guess that will have to do. just thinking of anything i can do solo..

 

[ossy]

I would also get an good steady reliable hacker to go out with. Although just be carefull with your discipline, by letting her all be it eventually get her own way you are teaching her this is acceptable. As one of my old riding instructors once told me, you can't let them steal from the cookie jar one day and not the next its confusing. Be pacient, play the waiting game, the amount of times i've stood still at a gate or bridge untill my horse has walked foward when asked. Obviously you have to be a safe enough place to do this, but there's any resisence just stop wait and try again, I've out waited many of my horses and they soon decide whats best for them.
Also does she do this in the school, when mine was a 4 year old I did not take her out hacking untill I new she moved off my leg when told.

 

[AmyMay]

Do you keep the horse at home then?

 

[YasandCrystal]

Could someone walk with you? Many horses are apprehensive hacking alone at first. All the youngsters I have broken I used to lead out in hand to introduce them to traffic so they became quite accustomed to the hacking route.
Having a person on foot can make a great deal of difference to the confidence of the horse I know that from experience. Good luck!

 

[Clodagh]

Never, never let them win. Anything you ask a horse to do it always has to do it, even if it means you have to lead her round the whole hack. You let her take you home so she has learned a lot from that. She should hack on her own at 5 I think you need to set yourself up to win. Possibly long rein her round where you want to go, if it is safe. Or rope a friend into walking on foot with you. Or if it was me I would pay someone to get her round, someone very experienced and capable. I'm not saying you aren't but this needs to ber nipped in the bud.

 

[AmyMay]

She should hack on her own at 5 I think you need to set yourself up to win.

I've assumed that the horse is only quite recently backed.....

 

[edgedem]

I would also get an good steady reliable hacker to go out with. Although just be carefull with your discipline, by letting her all be it eventually get her own way you are teaching her this is acceptable. As one of my old riding instructors once told me, you can't let them steal from the cookie jar one day and not the next its confusing. Be pacient, play the waiting game, the amount of times i've stood still at a gate or bridge untill my horse has walked foward when asked. Obviously you have to be a safe enough place to do this, but there's any resisence just stop wait and try again, I've out waited many of my horses and they soon decide whats best for them.
Also does she do this in the school, when mine was a 4 year old I did not take her out hacking untill I new she moved off my leg when told.

this is a good reply thanks, yea i did think "i let her get away with that one" moment but it was seriously muddy and she isnt a fan of mud.. gawd knows why! so i though for her first long hack i would make her a little more comfortable and go the other way.

I would out wait her if she stood still but if i halt her after her little spin she starts walking sideways! i guess its just a case of spinning and a battle of wills but i dont like to tug her so hard on the mouth.. they always say "soft hands" on a youngster but at the same time "don't let them get their way" its a thin line!

 

[edgedem]

I've assumed that the horse is only quite recently backed.....

I keep her at home, her history is this:
she is 5 and ive had her since June. she was rescued/found from gypsies.
She was a reckless tearaway, bucked me off and i was in A&E on second ride.
so i had a friend work with her and myself for 2 months long reining, in hand work, manners etc everything a young horse would get. we are now into the rebacking her stage and after a few weeks going around the field are venturing out so she doesnt get bored!

clearly she is green and unexperienced but she does really enjoy it and isnt fazed by cars.

i have no problems in staying on her back and literally yanking her head round for an hour until she goes in the right direction, i was really just making sure that its an acceptable thing! it just doesnt seem fair and people say you can do a lot of damage to their mouth if you dont have "kind hands" ..

but if its more important she doesn't win and i get my way and she knows who's "boss" then ill happily do it. shes in a french link snaffle so it isnt a harsh bit.

ill add she leads in hand the hacking route without a snitch, other than eating everything she can (also a ridden problem) but when im on her back its instantly turn around.

 

[ossy]

this is a good reply thanks, yea i did think "i let her get away with that one" moment but it was seriously muddy and she isnt a fan of mud.. gawd knows why! so i though for her first long hack i would make her a little more comfortable and go the other way.

I would out wait her if she stood still but if i halt her after her little spin she starts walking sideways! i guess its just a case of spinning and a battle of wills but i dont like to tug her so hard on the mouth.. they always say "soft hands" on a youngster but at the same time "don't let them get their way" its a thin line!

TBH honest I wouldn't worry to much about your hands at that point, she will learn that she has soft hands when she does as she is told. If she dosen't stand still just keep putting her back round to face fowards again, keep bring her back untill you put leg on and she goes. Mine was like this, she now hacks out on a very loose rein and never bats an eye lid, actually as a 7 year old she now nannies the 4 and 5 year olds better than some of the older horses, her mouth hasn't been damaged by a couple of strong pulls, I assume you are soft handed in your schooling so I wouldn't worry at this stage.

 

[Littlelegs]

If she's kept at home, could your friend either ride or lead your horses field companion? Or if you're on a yard, find out when people are hacking & tag along. When you have gone on your short hacks previously, do you ride a loop, or go a short way & turn back the way you've come?

 

[CBFan]

She should hack on her own at 5 .

It's very general sweeping statements like this that put undue pressure on people bringing on less than straightforward youngsters and leads to accidents.

OP You say you have been hacking for 10 - 15 minutes up until now. Is this the same route as you attempted the other day?

It sounds like classic insecurity to me and I'd be inclined to stick a bridle, roller and sidereins on and lead your girl out in hand down unfamiliar routes for the next few weeks to build her confidence. Then there is no question of 'you got off so she's won' she gets to see unfamiliar sights with the security of you by her side...

 

[edgedem]

TBH honest I wouldn't worry to much about your hands at that point, she will learn that she has soft hands when she does as she is told. If she dosen't stand still just keep putting her back round to face fowards again, keep bring her back untill you put leg on and she goes. Mine was like this, she now hacks out on a very loose rein and never bats an eye lid, actually as a 7 year old she now nannies the 4 and 5 year olds better than some of the older horses, her mouth hasn't been damaged by a couple of strong pulls, I assume you are soft handed in your schooling so I wouldn't worry at this stage.

thanks. thats good to know. we have no school at the moment so schooling as such is whist hacking although i am setting up lessons in a yard down the road asap.

 

[AmyMay]

Why not move the horse on to a livery yard for the winter? This will give you people to hack out with, and a school.....

 

[PandorasJar]

I'd get a lead whether horse, person on foot etc.

My last share absolutely despised mud, so I let her pick her route through it. We went the direction I want and she found the footing she was happy with but she wasn't to turn back. Not the ideal solution for yours as much younger, but possibly better than a win of turning round.

 

[FfionWinnie]

You must win. However I think if you can get someone experienced to do the winning for you that would be safer. My rising 5 yr old tried the same tricks and also doesn't like the feel of mud but I am afraid that's tough she has to go where I say. I have had a few big battles which I won, and now she doesn't try it, but I am always ready for her

 

[TigerTail]

Its not about winning or letting the horse get away with something - those are very negative/ destructive attitudes to take. Its only us as humans that see things in those ways.

Is there anything you can pinpoint that sets off the spin OP? It seems odd she will trundle along for a while and then spin for no visible prompt. Have you walked the route several times in hand and then long lined it with her on her own?

Id just keep going no matter what in the direction I wanted, but there is a good chance this may be on foot, with the 12ft rope I carry, if the spinning was stopping progress. I do not see walking as having lost, provided im still moving her feet where I want them to go.

 

[edgedem]

It's very general sweeping statements like this that put undue pressure on people bringing on less than straightforward youngsters and leads to accidents.

OP You say you have been hacking for 10 - 15 minutes up until now. Is this the same route as you attempted the other day?

It sounds like classic insecurity to me and I'd be inclined to stick a bridle, roller and sidereins on and lead your girl out in hand down unfamiliar routes for the next few weeks to build her confidence. Then there is no question of 'you got off so she's won' she gets to see unfamiliar sights with the security of you by her side...

it is the same route and we get to a certain point and turn round as we are surrounded by rivers where i live and this means the smallest route would be 4 miles. and i wanted to build her up to it slowly.

i may walk her and mix with long rein her about and see how she copes. we think she drove in the past so she loves long reining. my only issue is when walking in hand i end up in a push pull situation of her eating the banks

 

[edgedem]

Its not about winning or letting the horse get away with something - those are very negative/ destructive attitudes to take. Its only us as humans that see things in those ways.

Is there anything you can pinpoint that sets off the spin OP? It seems odd she will trundle along for a while and then spin for no visible prompt. Have you walked the route several times in hand and then long lined it with her on her own?

Id just keep going no matter what in the direction I wanted, but there is a good chance this may be on foot, with the 12ft rope I carry, if the spinning was stopping progress. I do not see walking as having lost, provided im still moving her feet where I want them to go.

hi, i only say its "letting the hose win" as thats how a lot of people describe it, usually cus its the start of bad habbits i guess.

there isnt anything i can tell! she just does, then goes off down a little longer, then head home again! i only may think its the mud? but then she spun on a flat grassy bit.

 

[Choccie]

I am in a similar position to you. I have a 5yr old at home but also a retired horse but no jockey to ride him regularly only once a week at the moment and not every week. i don't have a school so my youngster is only ridden once a week or every two or three weeks at the moment until i can go back to affording livery in the spring. I have accepted that i am better to ride once a week or fortnight throughout the winter and have a nice enjoyable (still spooky and stop start though) safe hack in the company of an older horse than battle and create more problems trying to go out on my own.

From my experience some youngsters take to hacking better than others depending on their self confidence and up bringing, i.e showing and being led out before backing.

 

[edgedem]

Why not move the horse on to a livery yard for the winter? This will give you people to hack out with, and a school.....

personally, if i could find one i maybe would, as i have the money, but it would mean leaving my mums shetland without a companion and she doesnt do well on her own.

and dont shoot me down for this horrifically general sweeping statement, but i alway worry about being judged on a livery yard. some people are there to help where as throughout my life ive only found the people that take the P**S.. usually just for the fun of it and to make you feel small! hence why i do it my way on my own!

 

[TigerTail]

Right, if you're getting into push/pull of her eating banks then your groundwork isnt right. She should know that you on the end of the rope is you in charge and that no means no - or whatever command you have for eating, mine is head!

This may be why shes questioning how safe she is with you in the saddle out on her own and why shes spinning and heading for home.

You need to do some halter work wherby you are moving her around, and shes going when asked, where you ask and until you say stop. Her feet are doing the moving, not yours as otherwise she thinks shes bossing you.

 

[edgedem]

You must win. However I think if you can get someone experienced to do the winning for you that would be safer. My rising 5 yr old tried the same tricks and also doesn't like the feel of mud but I am afraid that's tough she has to go where I say. I have had a few big battles which I won, and now she doesn't try it, but I am always ready for her

haha i feel the same! i think the first time (and only time. "touch wood") she had me off it was through pure excitement! and ive always waited but im a lot more confident now so if she plays up i dont mind getting her moving forward and sitting through the jog!

i would like to have someone else ride her or school her or send her away to be educated.. but i posted on here for hopes of contacts and didnt get much

i hope to get lessons on her when i can and if the local yard can fit me in with her. failing that i guess ill just keep going and hope i dont ruin her!!

and also get a bit of logic and reassurance and guidance from lovely HH Forum reader/posters!

 

[edgedem]

Right, if you're getting into push/pull of her eating banks then your groundwork isnt right. She should know that you on the end of the rope is you in charge and that no means no - or whatever command you have for eating, mine is head!

This may be why shes questioning how safe she is with you in the saddle out on her own and why shes spinning and heading for home.

You need to do some halter work wherby you are moving her around, and shes going when asked, where you ask and until you say stop. Her feet are doing the moving, not yours as otherwise she thinks shes bossing you.

ok thanks for this, ill certainly give this a go. maybe go back a few steps and do some more in hand work. i thought doing some lunging with her as well may help with this.

ta

 

[TigerTail]

I highly recommend Mike Alysmore and his partner if you want to send her somewhere

http://www.aylmoreclassicaldressage.co.uk/Default.html

Lunging doesn't have the same effect as the inhand stuff - its not specific enough. Do things like yielding the hind end and the front, backing her through an L shape of poles. Simply leading but so you suggest the direction of travel with your hand and she starts in that direction before you move your feet, she should always take the first step.

 

[PandorasJar]

Its not about winning or letting the horse get away with something - those are very negative/ destructive attitudes to take. Its only us as humans that see things in those ways.

I use the term as I don't think it's good to let a horse 'win' a situation like this. The horse may not see a 'win', but it will ingrain in their heads that this point can't be crossed every time it happens. The more repetition, the harder to correct as they'll anticipate it. Also that if you set out to 'win' in the situation and have it in your head that you will cross the point, then you'll have more confidence on it as will the horse.

I don't see it as a negative/destructive attitude.

Id just keep going no matter what in the direction I wanted, but there is a good chance this may be on foot, with the 12ft rope I carry, if the spinning was stopping progress. I do not see walking as having lost, provided im still moving her feet where I want them to go.

Completely agree.

 

[mandwhy]

If she leads out in hand well then you could have a non horsey friend walk out on foot with you to boost her confidence? Or your mum could walk her Shetland out with you if it would be suitable? Or someone on a bike, failing that I would probably take her out in.hand a bit more, maybe tack up so you can walk somewhere and hack back home? Make routes circular as well even if its round a tree or something, turning back is not cool!

 

[CBFan]

my only issue is when walking in hand i end up in a push pull situation of her eating the banks

Thats why you put relatively tight side reins on, so that she can't pull you!! If I can do this with a strapping 17.2hh... I'm sure you can manage... especially if she longreins fine.

on the other hand, you just need to build up, going a little bit further before you turn back for home each time... she has just gotten used to 'the norm' so you need to break that... unfortunately she has started using it against you and has turned it into a form of napping...

 

[meesha]

I personally would take the path of least resistance - ride her out of the yard - once you are out and she is goinng forward nicely (before she plants) jump off and walk her out in hand - then get back on after so long and ride her forward for a bit (even if its a few paces to start with) before turning for home (you dont want her to think as soon as you get on she can turn for home) keep at it and extend the riding bit.... or .... if not keen on that and you have no hacking buddies bribe someone into either walking or cycling with you !